Arcane Denial.dec with Gitaxian Probe.

[meadbert]

1 Scalding Tarn
1 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Flooded Strand
4 Underground Sea
2 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Island
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Urza's Bauble
4 Dark Confidant
1 Tendrils Of Agony
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Time Walk
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Force Of Will
4 Arcane Denial
1 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Mana Drain
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Chain Of Vapor
1 Mystical Tutor
3 Spell Pierce
sideboard
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Engineered Explosives
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Yixlid Jailer
1 Hurkyl's Recall
3 Annul

So I used to say that Arcane Denial.dec was the Yawg deck.  That is even more true now that Gitaxian Probe has been printed.

Basically I dropped counters from my old list to add the Gitaxian Probes.  I also dropped Thirst which has been about the worst card in the deck ever since Bob was added.

This deck revolves around Arcane Denial.  Basically Denial can function either as an additional turn 1 counter or, more frequently, you can counter your own spell to gain card advantage.  Turn 1 Denial on a Bauble/Gitaxian Probe means you draw 3 cards next upkeep which is pretty solid.  Finally, you can counter your own spell that was already countered which is essentially a 3 for 1 trade for  .  This used to happen all the time when I could run 4 Thirst, but now spells either did not need to be countered to begin with or are so good that I would rather protect them.  2 cases where you are likely to pull this off are with an Arcane Denial you already played and with Dark Confidant in some situations.  Basically on turn 3 you might try to Denial a Bauble.  When they go to counter your Bauble, you can Denial either your Bauble or your Denial and still draw 3 cards.

You then cycle through your deck fairly quickly with all the cantrips.  From there you have 2 options.  One is to just play control with Dark Confidants out.  The other is go for a Yawg Win.  Yawg Will is frequently busted on turn 2 with this deck.  You can have games where you have 3 Canttrips on turn 1 into another Cantrip on turn 2 and then Yawg with 4 cantrips.  By turn 4 Yawg is just silly.

The maindeck is solid against other Control decks suffering mostly against Shops and Dredge.
Ritual combo and blue based control are your best matchups.  Oath is worth than other Blue based control because they make Dark Confidant worse, but you always have the option to either run Bob out early with enough counters to keep Oath off the table or counter your own Bob with Arcane Denial to gain card advantage off him anyway.  The Tendrils goldfish is fairly fast so racing Oath is not out of the question.

The sideboard is well situated to handle all of these problems.  For Dredge you have everything but the Annul and Hurkyl's.  For Shops you have Strips and Wastes along with Annul and Explosives and the token Hurkyl's.
Explosives and Annul also answer Oath.

Jace is not particularly scary for this deck.  Basically you have all sorts of ways to counter it and your goldfish is so fast that frequently they are Brainstorming with Jace while you are using Yawg to either draw 8 cards or just flat out win.  For this reason sideboard answers to Jace are not that important and Annul is strong against Oath in that it stop two of their 3 most relevant win conditions which are Oath and Vault/Key.

An alternate sideboard is to transition to Oath.  Basically you get 4 Oaths + 3 creatures + 4 Orchards and a Tropical Island.
Obviously you would need to board out the Dark Confidants.
The transition is strong against Shops.
Against Dredge you have a much smaller Dredge board, but you still have a strong line of attack.  Basically you would board out counters for your Oath board.
The problem is against the mirror you would have neither Jace nor Wastes to win a token war.
Also, a zillion cantrips do not work well with Oath since you end up drawing into your fatties too often. 

This list probably needs further tweaking.  In particular I am not sure that 13 counters and 12 Cantrips is the right ratio.
Perhaps the Bauble count could drop to 6 to add a Pierce and a Drain.

There are a few other ideas that I have tried at times that might be worth retesting.
#1  Skeletal Scrying:  Basically you load the yard with 7 cards by turn 3-4 fairly consistently so pulling off Scrying for 4-5 in the first 4 turns is totally doable.  The trouble is you do not have much counter backup if you tap out.  A workaround is to add Misdirections and drop Confidants, but I am not sold on Misdirection in a Shops meta when you are already running only 20ish mana sources.

#2 Halimar Depths:  The idea here is to use this as Ponder that is unaffected by Spheres or Chalices.  You can situation your top 3 cards and then Cantrip to your Force or whatever else you want.

#3 Tinker:  This is a better win condition in the Scrying/Misdirection version, but with Thirst restricted it can be tricky to pull Tinker targets out of your hand and they tend to win too slow.

#4 Vault/Key:  Without Tinker or Imperial seal there are too few tutors.  You are likely to draw into only 1 half of the piece and you do not have Brainstorms to put back that half.  Tendrils is just one spot and better on its own than Vault or Key are on their own.

#5 Imperial Seal or even Personal Tutor:  Now that Yawg is even better does it make sense to add an extra tutor?  I think not, but I could be wrong, especially considering that with Gitaxian Probe you no longer need to wait a turn!

[Random Noob]

Just wanted to open a Topic on this Deck, than found your topic.

This is how my list looks like:

1 Tolarian Academy
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
2 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Island
1 Library of Alexandria
3 Flooded Strand

// Win conditions
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key

// Tech
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Arcane Denial
3 Mox Opal

//Boost
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring


//Tutors and Bombs
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Tinker
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Time Walk

//Control
1 Hurkyl's Recall
4 Mana Drain
1 Steel Sabotage
2 Repeal
4 Force of Will

// Sideboard
1 Pithing Needle
3 Yixlid Jailer
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Mindbreak Trap
4 Ingot Chewer


I am not a Drain expert, so some choices will be wrong. I am also unsure how to fight Mud and on the other hand Stoney Silence.
A reasonable Question would be if you want to run the Tendrils or the ETW, because when you used Denial as a counter, you likely want to go off with your extra draw from the next upkeep.

I guess those Baubles are outdated, and that Mox Opal is superior to them, because its better on its own. you just counter it if you draw multiples, or make tricks with Repeal.

Open said i guess this is a nice Engine, but if it can compete with Gush is untested yet. I like the flair of having a Draw Engine, or a rescuing hard counter.

[Grand Inquisitor]

This deck revolves around Arcane Denial

Given the preponderance of missteps and mindbreak traps, have you had trouble with getting blown out by these in the blue matchups?  I can picture a lot of scenarios where you mox, cantrip, denial into an unfavorable counter war.  Did you see this happen often?  This leads to the more general problem I had with these lists, which is lack of tactical flexibility and being forced into uncomfortable choices on timing.  I would guess bob alleviates this a certain amount because you can play it proactively and easily.  Is that true?

Have you ever considered a 1x Snapcaster Mage?  He seems to have synergy with your combo and your win condition and is a great 1-of if you're running Gifts.

[A.-1.]

I can definitely see where Mindbreak Trap makes trying to (ab)use this draw engine difficult. How does Misstep factor in with Baubles costing zero and Denial two?

Is this risk/reward of Academy really worth it? Ideally you don't want to be playing your Baubles, and without Vault, Key, Top, etc. it seems like it would be underwhelming too often.

It's good to see your still brewing up deck ideas meadbert .

[Grand Inquisitor]

Baubles costing zero

I was referring to GProbe.

Academy really worth it?

It does run 14 0cc artifacts

[A.-1.]

I realize countering your own Probe is a viable option, but wouldn't you rather just cast the first Probe for info? Off the top of my head, I can't think of any scenario where you're keeping a hand that you have to Denial a Probe turn one for three cards. Like you mention, the deck certainly isn't lacking other free spells. Even though the deck does run so many artifacts, what is Academy fueling? Without Jace, Tezz, or Gifts it seems like Academy is only worth it during specific Yawg Wills.

[Grand Inquisitor]

Off the top of my head, I can't think of any scenario where you're keeping a hand that you have to Denial a Probe turn one for three cards.

No one required it to happen turn 1.

only worth it during specific Yawg Wills

This deck's main plan is a turn 3ish Yawgwill win.  Chaining multiple blue draws/counters is fine too; no one ever lost money by having too much blue mana around.

[A.-1.]

In that case, then yes I completely agree with your first post. Mid to late game versus a random blue deck I would be very cautious running out Probe + Denial without some backup. Again though I would probably just cast Probe first.

I guess I'll just have to goldfish the deck for myself.

[Killane]

I just don't get how this draw engine is good? It costs 1U and 2 life AND two cards. So you end up 2 cards, and you have to wait for them. Night's Whisper costs 1B and 2 life, only one card, you get 2 cards, RIGHT NOW.
And it hardly sees play. I don't get it.

[boggyb]

You get three cards: 2 + 1 = 3. So it's +1 CA just like Night's Whisper, but is blue and is more versatile in certain ways since you can hard-counter an opponent's bomb for 1U. You also don't *need* to lose 2 life if you have enough mana.

[MaximumCDawg]

I've been fascinated with Arcane Denial for some time, but I dont know if this deck is there yet.

Lots of cards in Vintage see play because they play multiple roles, and thus help a deck do more with fewer slots.  Bob, Tiago, and Selkie  are threats + card advantage.  Teeg, Mindcensor, Revoker are threats + disruption.  Library, Strip Mine are mana + disruption.  And the list goes on.

There are a family of counterspells that do double-duty as well, but most of them are unplayable in Vintage: Suffocating Blow, Countersquall, Absorb, those kind of cards.  The only two dual-purpose counterspells that seem borderline playable are: Arcane Denial and Muddle the Mixture, both of which are either disruption or card advantage, depending.

The concept of a deck running Arcane Denial (or Muddle) should be to use the dual role of this counterspell to make space for something else important.  In other words, you've got a card drawing engine and half of your counterspell suite taken care of in the same 4 cards.  Rather than building a deck that relies on using AD on baubles, I think you need to ask what you can do when you open up your deck this way?

The OP's list is answering the question this way: If my draw engine is also a counterspell, I can run a huge density of countermagic.  That's certainly one way to do it.

But what about using the additional space for something else?  That is, if my counter suite consists of:

4 Force of Will
4 Arcane Denial
2 Muddle the Mixture
1 Misdirection

...then, so long as I have a ready and otherwise useful way to convert AD into cards when I need it, I can arguably not use too many other cards solely for CA or tutoring, since my counterspells have that covered.

The problem with this, I've found, is that these dual-purpose counterspells just arn't as good at countering spells, drawing cards, or tutoring for answers as dedicated cards for those purposes are.  So the rest of the deck has to really take advantage of the open slots in a HUGE way to make it worth it.  That critical combination has not happened yet, and I don't know what the combination would be.

[ilpeggiore]

im an arcane-lover.

I played em in the 90's and i d like to play 'em now.

But i dont get why do you preffer g.probe to noxius revival or gut shot. Both of them have a more valuable use when u dont have an arcane....

3 opal is a bad choise, no way it can be good. Even 4 arcane is too much. You need arcane as emergency extra protection ordraw engine in mid-late game.

Gift+noxious+arcane could be interesting ( I tried but it wasnt that consistent...)

[meadbert]

So for those who did not notice, my original post was from last May and is outdated.

Since then I have added Mental Misstep to this deck and dropped the Urza's Baubles.

Urza's Bauble became worse once Thirst was dropped.

Misstep is nice in that it protects you from Stifle and Spell Pierce (which are 3 for 1 when you trying to Denial.)

Also, you can Denial your own Mental Misstep so basically if your opponent plays a 1CC spell you can Misstep it and then if they counter your Misstep you can Denial your Misstep and Denial becomes a 3 for 1 Trade which is huge.

Denials advantages over Night's Whisper are fairly significant:
#1)   You are loading the yard for Yawg.  Basically Thirst was either +0 or +1 card advantage, but way better than Night's Whisper because it loads the yard and digs.
#2)  Digs (see above).  Basically if you believe that Arcane Denial and Mishra's Bauble suck, then you just traded your 2 worst cards for 3 new cards which is pretty awesome!
#3)  Blue
#4)  You can counter a late Bomb like Yawg/Vault/Tinker/Oath etc.
#5)  You can sort of "instant speed" it if you counter your own Misstep on purpose.
#6)  Occasional 3 for 1 trade with countered Spells.  It is very common that an opponent counters a Bob and then you just recounter your own Bob with Denial to draw 3 cards for   .
#7)  Library of Leng:  Because you draw the cards next turn you can potentially go up to a hand size of 10 during your opponent's upkeep.  This is huge after a utility Yawg.

Regarding this new proposed list:

I notice no Dark Confidants.  Those are pretty good, especially with Mindbreak Trap out there.

Empty the Warrens is very tempting.  I have tried it many times and ultimately I decided I wanted Coliseums over Volcanic Island, but it is definitely at least close to being worth it.

Opals seem shady to me with so few artifacts given the fact that you want to counter artifacts anyway.  

Chain of Vapor is very good.

I think there are too many ways to win here.  If you are already running Tinker, Vault/Key and Tez I am not sure that Warrens is needed.
Basically if you run Tinker then Thirst is good again, but also Cephalid Coliseum becomes very good so I would rather Volcanic Island be Coliseum.

If you want to keep Warrens, then maybe drop Tez and add Fact or Fiction.  I tested Fact as 3 of back when it was unrestriced and it was underwhelming.

Regarding New Weaknesses:
Mindbreak Trap is bad for sure, but it is not as bad as Stifle was because it is less prevalent than Stifle was.
This new list addresses Mindbreak Trap partly by adding Tinker, but turn 1 Mox, Probe, Denial is SUPER risky.  Turn 1 Mox, Bob is better.

Flusterstorm is also bad and makes the whole Tendrils route questionable.  Regarding Tendrils, keep in mind that it is there as a means to race more than an actual win condition.  If you just stormed for enough to win then you will probably have a 10 card hand next upkeep so even if all copies of Tendrils are Flusterstormed you still probably win the game, only you must use Bob Beats (or another win condition) instead.

I found Mana Crypt risky, but I ran Bobs so for you it is much safer.

[MaximumCDawg]

Using Misstep as fuel for AD seems like a big mistake, since you cannot use your draw engine until there is a 1cc spell on the stack.  Plus, when you're storming out, Probe can be recast from the yard; Misstep not necessarily.  Gitaxian Probe solves the problem, but all it does when you're not hitting it with AD is let you see the enemy's hand.  I guess this is critical for storm combo, so the OP has some good ideas there.  But I'm starting to really like the idea of Gut Shot, which hits Bob and Tiago if you're not using it to draw.  I also think Flusterstorm is critical to protect your own draw and stop blowouts if you're up against blue. 

[meadbert]

Gut Shot has potential since you can draw at instant speed with it.

EDIT:  Noxious Revival too!

[The Atog Lord]

If you are looking for a generically-useful free spell, I'd recommend considering Surgical Extraction over Gut Shot. The black cost makes it easier to cast for mana if needed. And the ability itself can hobble Gush decks, and can hit the stronger half of a Snapcaster Mage. Overall, I have some concerns about the viability of this strategy, since a well-placed counter from the opponent will rip two cards out of your hand. But it is an interesting idea, and may perhaps prove more viable than I am giving it credit for.

[meadbert]

Noxious Revival seems to have the most pure power.

Basically it is a "Regrowth" but it has -1 card advantage and costs 2 less and is instant speed.

Preliminary testing finds that it is solid post Yawg for putting counters on top of your library, but I think that is sort of win more.  Beyond that you can recur Recall or get back a countered Yawg.

[A.-1.]

I like the idea of Surgical Extraction in combination with Gitaxian Probe.

I'm not a huge fan of Gut Shot. Using it to hit a resolved Snapcaster doesn't seem like a great play.

[Grand Inquisitor]

meadbert

Can you comment on Snapcaster?...whether you've tested it? what kind of counts (1-4)?

I still think a good case can be made for 1x, at least, to give additional options with tutors/gifts, recover countered threats and reuse answers/engine.  2c.

[Random Noob]

Gitaxian Probe and Snapcaster Mage makes me think... but i guess there are not enough slots to assemble it.

[meadbert]

meadbert

Can you comment on Snapcaster?...whether you've tested it? what kind of counts (1-4)?

I still think a good case can be made for 1x, at least, to give additional options with tutors/gifts, recover countered threats and reuse answers/engine.  2c.

I have not tested it in this deck in any number.  Would it be better than Noxious Revivial?  I realize Snapcaster Mage gives +2 card advantage compared to Noxious Revival (if you count the 2/1 body) but Noxious Revival has more synergy.

I may try that next.  I am in the early phases of testing Noxious Revival and the cards have some similarities so I may start to consider how it would be different if my Noxious Revival were a Snapcaster Mage.

[Grand Inquisitor]

I realize Snapcaster Mage gives +2 card advantage compared to Noxious Revival (if you count the 2/1 body) but Noxious Revival has more synergy.

So far I'm leaning towards the mage.  It also pitches and it's also a road apple for an attacker to buy you a turn (tho regrettably not against BSC).  More and more I'm finding the card disadvantage of this list problematic.  If you can stick an early bob you're usually fine to set up a big turn 3 or 4.  But I continue to find the need to resolve Arcane Denial in your favor a tactical bottleneck.

Another big issue is early turn fights where the cantrips sit dead.  Ie, when on the draw (or if you didn't want to burn them), Baubles and Probes sit there as possible FoW or Missteps while the opponent drops a bomb.  At the least they force you to guess on the value of cards to pitch.  No strategy is without qualms, but I still find this one asks too much relative to what it delivers.

[meadbert]

I realize Snapcaster Mage gives +2 card advantage compared to Noxious Revival (if you count the 2/1 body) but Noxious Revival has more synergy.

So far I'm leaning towards the mage.  It also pitches and it's also a road apple for an attacker to buy you a turn (tho regrettably not against BSC).  More and more I'm finding the card disadvantage of this list problematic.  If you can stick an early bob you're usually fine to set up a big turn 3 or 4.  But I continue to find the need to resolve Arcane Denial in your favor a tactical bottleneck.

Another big issue is early turn fights where the cantrips sit dead.  Ie, when on the draw (or if you didn't want to burn them), Baubles and Probes sit there as possible FoW or Missteps while the opponent drops a bomb.  At the least they force you to guess on the value of cards to pitch.  No strategy is without qualms, but I still find this one asks too much relative to what it delivers.

So I agree with most of this post except for Mage.

The issue is resolving your Denials for card advantage.  You cannot afford to lose those counter wars.

The card that I have wanted the most in my "wildcard" spot has actually been Misdirection.

Misdirection solves the Mindbreak Trap issue.  Against Flusterstorm if you could have had Misdirection or Spell Pierce you want Misdirection.
Basically you Misdirect one copy of Flusterstorm to the other and then use the mana you would have spent on Spell Pierce to force through the last Flusterstorm and you resolve your spell.

The huge caveat is that I have been testing vs other control decks and obviously Spell Pierce is superior vs Shops.

Snapcaster Mage is week with Arcane Denials and here is why.
Snapcaster Mage is about throwing out spells and letting them get countered because you can replay them anyway.

With Arcane Denial the pain of having it countered is so bad that once I use Snapcaster Mage to get it back, it is likely to just get countered all over again and now I am down more card advantage with only a 2/1 body to show for it.  In such a case Snapcaster Mage is either lose less or possibly lose more.

If Arcane Denial resolves then I am already significantly ahead, so while Snapcaster Mage is very strong, I was already winning so it becomes a win more.  It is not that much of a win more because resolving Arcane Denial is not as bad as Resolving a Recall for your opponent, but basically it takes you from ahead, to more ahead.

What is most important is resolving that first Arcane Denial and for that Misdirection is best since it protects from Mindbreak Trap and Spell Pierce and can sort of save you from Flusterstorm.

One drawback would be the high CC interacting with Dark Confidant, but I do not run Tinker so losing life is rarely a big issue.  Adding 2 Misdirections should be fine.

The main drawback will most likely be vs Shops, because without Brainstorm, Jace or Thirst for Knowledge I cannot filter out dead cards easily.  I suppose I could try Denialing my own Misdirection, but that's not happening with any Resistor effects out.  Basically Misdirection is only useful as Force fodder.
This only affects one of the 3 games vs Shops so it might be tolerable.  The preboard Shop matchup is already suspect anyway.