Tidespout Cloak

[DubDub]

Tidespout Tyrant is a sweet card, shouldn't every creature get the chance to be one?

Initial wording:

Tidespout Cloak - 
Artifact Equipment
Equipped creature has "Whenever you cast a spell, return target permanent to its owner's hand."
Equip 
Mind mage?  Why change perception of reality when you can just unmake the parts you don't like?

Current wording:

Tidespout Cloak - 
Artifact Equipment
Equipped creature has "Whenever you cast a spell, return target permanent to its owner's hand."
Equip 
Mind mage?  Why change perception of reality when you can just unmake the parts you don't like?

[Wagner]

Idea is nice, but this would be the first equipment ever to have a colored non-phyrexian equip cost, I'm not sure if that would be ok.

Maybe give the creature flying too, while we're at copying tyrant?

[DubDub]

Idea is nice, but this would be the first equipment ever to have a colored non-phyrexian equip cost, I'm not sure if that would be ok.

Well, it's not completely crazy:


Plus we've had things like in Alara Block where the equipment's cost was colored and the equip cost was colorless (Unscythe, Killer of Kings comes to mind), so the reverse is not too much of a stretch.  See also Bosh and Memnarch as artifacts with a strong color identity.

Maybe give the creature flying too, while we're at copying tyrant?

I think that's pretty unnecessary; plus in flavor terms TTT flies because it's a djinn, and bounces stuff because it's... Tidespout-y, right?

[Norm4eva]

Idea is nice, but this would be the first equipment ever to have a colored non-phyrexian equip cost, I'm not sure if that would be ok.

Well, it's not completely crazy:

FYP

Colored equip is probably fine, although to be fair I don't know if I can think of any equipment card that doesn't have an alternate colorless equip cost.

[Wagner]

Colored equip is probably fine, although to be fair I don't know if I can think of any equipment card that doesn't have an alternate colorless equip cost.

There is none, I checked, and yes, I was aware of Plating and such, but they still equip colorless.

But ya, colored equipment wouldn't be much of a stretch, but I dunno, I find the card pretty boring. Not sure how powerful it would actually be though.

Would switching casting and equip cost make it more prohibitive? Even if it makes it come online 1 turn earlier "technically". You won't have many spells to cast on turn 5 if you equip this for 5.

[DubDub]

I find the card pretty boring. Not sure how powerful it would actually be though.

Would switching casting and equip cost make it more prohibitive? Even if it makes it come online 1 turn earlier "technically". You won't have many spells to cast on turn 5 if you equip this for 5.

Unfortunately going forward we have to operate in a world in which Stoneforge Mystic exists, can't just throw five positive abilities on an Equipment, make it mythic and cost five and call it a day (*cough* Batterskull *cough*).  I'm pretty sure Stoneforging this up, cheating it into play, and being able to equip it to that spare body (does something even if the creature is tapped!) is a solid route to victory.  I mean:
"Swords my cloaked Mystic?  Mental Misstep, bounce your Tundra with the trigger."  <Force> "Force back, bounce your Tropical Island with the trigger."  <Force again> "Okay, your Force is good, Mental Misstep the original Swords again, bounce your Tarmogoyf with the trigger."

"My turn? Brainstorm, bounce this, Ponder Preordain, bounce that, Stoneforge #2, bounce anything left, finding..., attack for one."

Tidespout Tyrant's ability is an amazing lockpiece and combo enabler, I really don't think this card needs anything more to avoid being boring.

[Delha]

I find the card pretty boring. Not sure how powerful it would actually be though.

Would switching casting and equip cost make it more prohibitive? Even if it makes it come online 1 turn earlier "technically". You won't have many spells to cast on turn 5 if you equip this for 5.

Unfortunately going forward we have to operate in a world in which Stoneforge Mystic exists, can't just throw five positive abilities on an Equipment, make it mythic and cost five and call it a day (*cough* Batterskull *cough*).  I'm pretty sure Stoneforging this up, cheating it into play, and being able to equip it to that spare body (does something even if the creature is tapped!) is a solid route to victory.

In fairness, the formats that would abuse this the most are also the ones where your opponent is probably running an equally powerful strategy.

Also, Mystic -> Batterskull easily gets you an uncounterable 4/4 vigilance lifelink creature on turn 3, in a format that is heavily combat driven. Mystic -> Tidespout Cloak gets  you a Tyrant for on turn 3 if you're lucky, in a format where victory is often a foregone conclusion by that time.

[DubDub]

I find the card pretty boring. Not sure how powerful it would actually be though.

Would switching casting and equip cost make it more prohibitive? Even if it makes it come online 1 turn earlier "technically". You won't have many spells to cast on turn 5 if you equip this for 5.

Unfortunately going forward we have to operate in a world in which Stoneforge Mystic exists, can't just throw five positive abilities on an Equipment, make it mythic and cost five and call it a day (*cough* Batterskull *cough*).  I'm pretty sure Stoneforging this up, cheating it into play, and being able to equip it to that spare body (does something even if the creature is tapped!) is a solid route to victory.

In fairness, the formats that would abuse this the most are also the ones where your opponent is probably running an equally powerful strategy.

Also, Mystic -> Batterskull easily gets you an uncounterable 4/4 vigilance lifelink creature on turn 3, in a format that is heavily combat driven. Mystic -> Tidespout Cloak gets  you a Tyrant for on turn 3 if you're lucky, in a format where victory is often a foregone conclusion by that time.

It would be  , with my proposed cost and equip cost, but I see what you mean.  I'm actually thinking more about busting Commander open, as a 'more resilient to creature removal TTT' is pretty dang good.  Usually in my Wydwen deck resolving TTT leads directly to having infinite mana and storm.  I don't play many creatures so this Cloak may not fit there, but breaking up the cost of TTT and allowing it to survive creature removal (at the cost of dying to artifact removal) are both big upgrades for decks that run many creatures.

Also, like I said, you can't design without taking Stoneforge Mystic into account now.  If the cost were  and it equipped for  then you'd get wins on turn two instead.  That this isn't as good in the Vintage context as Batterskull is for Legacy is a good thing, in my opinion.

[Delha]

I'm actually thinking more about busting Commander open, as a 'more resilient to creature removal TTT' is pretty dang good.  Usually in my Wydwen deck resolving TTT leads directly to having infinite mana and storm.  I don't play many creatures so this Cloak may not fit there, but breaking up the cost of TTT and allowing it to survive creature removal (at the cost of dying to artifact removal) are both big upgrades for decks that run many creatures.

I'm not as familiar with Commander, but even there aren't there much more broken things you can do for equivalent mana? Strong, sure. Overpowered? Seems unlikely. If there's something weird about the format I just don't get, by all means please let me know. I'd just assume that in just about any format where mana matters, 8 is a lot and getting a pretty badass effect to be expected.

[DubDub]

I'm actually thinking more about busting Commander open, as a 'more resilient to creature removal TTT' is pretty dang good.  Usually in my Wydwen deck resolving TTT leads directly to having infinite mana and storm.  I don't play many creatures so this Cloak may not fit there, but breaking up the cost of TTT and allowing it to survive creature removal (at the cost of dying to artifact removal) are both big upgrades for decks that run many creatures.

I'm not as familiar with Commander, but even there aren't there much more broken things you can do for equivalent mana? Strong, sure. Overpowered? Seems unlikely. If there's something weird about the format I just don't get, by all means please let me know. I'd just assume that in just about any format where mana matters, 8 is a lot and getting a pretty badass effect to be expected.

No, I'm just saying  +  is significantly less than  .  My point is that you're getting a badass effect (this is a good thing, and my intention) with an installment plan which opens the door to 'too good'.