TDG Summer Open- Winner

[chrispikula]

Hi!

Some people have asked for my decklist from yesterday's Lotus tourney, so I thought I'd post it. Warning: I literally built this deck sitting in the lobby of the hotel in the 30 minutes leading up to the tourney, and I had never played a single game of 4 Gush Vintage before round 1 of this tourney.  Consequently, this list may not be the tightest package you've ever seen. 

I went 8-0 with 2 IDs. I had 2 wins against Dredge, 3 against some Oath/Show and Tell/Reanimator/Channel variants, 2 against other blue control decks, and one against Storm combo. 

Deckname: 4-3-2

3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
2 Island
6 Fetchlands
Tolarian Academy
5 Moxes
Black Lotus
Sol Ring
Mana Crypt

3 Dark Confidant
1 Blightsteel Colossus

2 Jace the Mind Sculptor

4 Force of Will
2 Mental Misstep
2 Spell Pierce
2 Mana Drain

1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will

3 Preordain
4 Gush
Brainstorm
Ancestral Recall
Mystical Tutor
Time Walk
Tinker

Fastbond

Time Vault
Voltaic Key
Sensei's Diving Top

Nature's Claim
Hurkyl's Recall

Sideboard:

4 Leyline of the Void
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
2 Trygon Predator
1 Nature's Claim
1 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Mental Misstep
2 Sower of Temptation

Everyone was very nice to me throughout the tourney. Thanks!

[dwpoker]

Nice tournament report. A+. Keep em coming

[chrispikula]

I will try and add something more detailed later.  I hate to talk about my sideboarding though:(.   

[Smmenen]

sounds like you also had alot of fun!   Gush is awesome   I hear you have PT Stamped Gushes... # unreal

[chrispikula]

I actually have a lead on the 4th stamped Gush!

[desolutionist]

I didn't realize you were the Meddling Mage until today.  Congratulations and I hope to see you at future vintage events!

[Saya]

salute.why is your deckname 4-3-2?

[chrispikula]

4 Gush
3 Dark Confidant
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

[Saya]

Thx for reply

[H]

I had been hoping that the 3 stood for 'Triple Paralyze' though...

[chrispikula]

Opening hand in game 2 of the finals vs Dredge.  You mulligan once.  He goes first and plays a Bazaar and says go. You draw and your hand is:

Fetchland
Sol Ring
Mana Crypt
Vampiric Tutor
Demonic Tutor
2 Gush

You've boarded in all your Dredge hate and all your mental missteps.  You are pretty sure he has 4 Nature's Claims and 4 Chain of Vapor.  What is your play?

[H]

My line would be Crypt, Sol Ring (float 1), Fetch, crack fetch for U Sea, Sea for B plus 1 floating, DT for Spellbomb, tap Sol Ring to play Spellbomb.

My first thought was to get Needle, but he's still going to get that Bazaar activation regardless and can start dredging.  I think it would be better to get Spellbomb on table and force him to either slow dredge or dig for an answer first.  This would give you time to Vamp next upkeep for Needle.

Chances are good that i am wrong on all that though.  But that's probably what i'd have done...

[Cruel Ultimatum]

I would play fetch crypt ring pass. At his eot I would vamp for fastbond, untap demonic for trop play fastbond gush twice. From there you have access to 4 new cards 3 colorless mana and 3 blue and a black.

Edit: I think tutoring for dredge hate is incorrect in this situation since you have an explosive hand and you dilute too much to get hate. By leaving up vamp you play around cabal therapy better and if they do tjerapy gush you can fall back on vamping for spellbomb.

An alternative line of play is casting dt for vault and play it with the intent to vamp for key, but that plan gets ranched pretty hard by chain, claim, and flashback ancient grudge

[chrispikula]

I would play fetch crypt ring pass. At his eot I would vamp for fastbond, untap demonic for trop play fastbond gush twice. From there you have access to 4 new cards 3 colorless mana and 3 blue and a black.

Edit: I think tutoring for dredge hate is incorrect in this situation since you have an explosive hand and you dilute too much to get hate. By leaving up vamp you play around cabal therapy better and if they do tjerapy gush you can fall back on vamping for spellbomb.

An alternative line of play is casting dt for vault and play it with the intent to vamp for key, but that plan gets ranched pretty hard by chain, claim, and flashback ancient grudge

This line is pretty strange. It leaves you with 4 random cards and a fair bit of mana, rather than 2 cards you tutored for and 2 Gush. With DT and Vamp already in your graveyard, drawing 4 random cards and hoping to get there against Dredge seems mighty risky. Also, you may never actually get that turn you are hoping for. He might just kill you on his turn. 

[H]

I would play fetch crypt ring pass. At his eot I would vamp for fastbond, untap demonic for trop play fastbond gush twice. From there you have access to 4 new cards 3 colorless mana and 3 blue and a black.

This line is pretty strange. It leaves you with 4 random cards and a fair bit of mana, rather than 2 cards you tutored for and 2 Gush. With DT and Vamp already in your graveyard, drawing 4 random cards and hoping to get there against Dredge seems mighty risky. Also, you may never actually get that turn you are hoping for. He might just kill you on his turn. 

Well, Chris, that was what i was thinking.  No doubt, getting Fastbond is an explosive play, but I agree that is a non-trivial chance that they could kill you turn 1, or at least, get out enough Zombies that makes the rest of your hate meaningless at that point.  The presence of Fatestitcher means they have some very explosive plays in their arsenal.  Already being down a game, perhaps i am thinking too conservatively.  I just feel like there is a chance that the 4 cards you'd see may have to be something, something, Vault, Key, in order to not lose passing that turn, because your two tutors are gone already.

So, the real question is, what did you do?

[chrispikula]

Already being down a game, perhaps i am thinking too conservatively. 

I was actually up a game, not that I think this should affect your play.

[Smmenen]

Opening hand in game 2 of the finals vs Dredge.  You mulligan once.  He goes first and plays a Bazaar and says go.

Wait, wait, what??  You won game 1? LOL

You draw and your hand is:

Fetchland
Sol Ring
Mana Crypt
Vampiric Tutor
Demonic Tutor
2 Gush

You've boarded in all your Dredge hate and all your mental missteps.  You are pretty sure he has 4 Nature's Claims and 4 Chain of Vapor.  What is your play?

My standard play with Vamp is Jailer, which you don't have.  I'll puzzle it out when I have some free time, so don't give your answer just yet.  

[chrispikula]

Yeah game 1 my opening hand was Academy, Fetchland, Mox Pearl, Time Walk, Ancestral Recall, Yawgmoth's Will, and Mystical Tutor.  I drew into demonic tutor off the recall. 

[Cunningbeaver]

Opening hand in game 2 of the finals vs Dredge.  You mulligan once.  He goes first and plays a Bazaar and says go. You draw and your hand is:

Fetchland
Sol Ring
Mana Crypt
Vampiric Tutor
Demonic Tutor
2 Gush

You've boarded in all your Dredge hate and all your mental missteps.  You are pretty sure he has 4 Nature's Claims and 4 Chain of Vapor.  What is your play?

I probably play crypt sol ring land pass. See how much stuff he goes through on his turn and whether or not he therapies me/leaves a land untapped when he ships it back. End of turn vamp for tinker depending on his plays.

Draw tinker fetch a sea tap sea crypt tinker for lotus. Crack BBB tap ring and DT for will cast will nothing floating replay land and crack replay crypt and lotus.  Tap land to vamp for key(or time walk) gush it into my hand. Crack lotus for UUU tap crypt and tinker crypt away for vault (or colossus) then play key/time walk .

Of course I'm real risky and pretty aggressive. If you wanted to just be safe the line into first turn spellbomb and vamping for needle might slow it down enough to let you gain control for a couple turns.

[chrispikula]

This play isn't really that different from first turn DT for Vault and play it, 2nd turn vamp for Key and play it.  I guess playing the Vault first turn gives them more information.  But you are still likely losing to Nature's Claim and also very likely losing to a bounce spell. 

[Cunningbeaver]

This play isn't really that different from first turn DT for Vault and play it, 2nd turn vamp for Key and play it.  I guess playing the Vault first turn gives them more information.  But you are still likely losing to Nature's Claim and also very likely losing to a bounce spell. 

I would agree that card wise its almost identical but the mindset it puts them in is completely different I think. Losing to either of those cards could very well happen but its also possible that he taps out on his turn.  I'm pretty curious to see which direction you went.

[hitman]

Your turn:  Fetchland-->Underground Sea, Mana Crypt-->Sol Ring, Demonic Tutor for Black Lotus, pass
Your turn 2:  Upkeep Vampiric Tutor for Yawgmoth's Will, Yawgmoth's Will, Lotus, Fetchland-->Underground Sea, Vampiric Tutor for Time Walk, Gush, Demonic Tutor for Tinker, Tinker for Blightsteel Colossus, Time Walk

This gives them one turn to win and since they probably sideboarded out their Fatestitchers and Dread Returns to find room to fit in all their interactive spells, you shouldn't have to worry about that one turn unless they get double Therapy and the creatures to sacrifice since they're probably not naming Vampiric Tutor or Black Lotus with the first Therapy.

[chrispikula]

This might be the best line, because it loses to Chain of Vapor but not Nature's Claim.  But of course you can still just lose on their 2nd turn.

I chose to go the DT into Spellbomb route, thinking that I was a pretty big favorite having a hate card in play, and holding Vampiric. I ended up Vamping for Tinker eventually after I found a Mental Misstep, but his first burst of dredging after I used my Spellbomb gave him 3 Bridges, and he ended up with 10 creatures on board against my Blightsteel.  I think I got a little unlucky, but honestly I was really tired (it has been a quite a while since I lasted 10+ hours in a Magic tourney) and I may either be slightly misremembering or maybe I misplayed. 

[Metman]

On the draw to Dredge if you don't bring the hate or win on your first turn I don't think you have a chance to win this game.  I would expect him to have Nature's Claims and Chain of Vapors to take care of anything you play on your first or second turns.  Passing the turn without doing either, winning or disrupting him is unacceptable. 

[ReubenG]

Good exercise to think about.  I agree with Metman, you need to either win this turn, or disrupt the dredge player. 

Hitman’s scenario is strong if the dredge player cannot double Cabal Therapy (which by passing the turn puts you on a turn 2 win and your opponent knows they need to strip your hand or win next turn), but does give the dredge player 2 Bazaar activations and a draw step to win or find and play double therapy. (which would be therapy, black land drop and Nacro or Ghast during a dredge)

Disruption options are to Fetch, Sea, Crypt, Sol Ring, Demonic, for either Needle or Spellbomb.  Both easily handled by in hand hate if they have the mana to cast it.    If they need a hate card or mana, Needle will only give them 1 Bazaar activation and a draw step to find it before you can Vamp next turn.   Spellbomb gives them 2 Bazaar activations and a draw step to find it, but anything put in the yard while digging will be gone.

All of these come down to dredge player getting a 5C land, a hate card or therapy, and a dredger to get the ball rolling.  Either way you go you're telegraphing what the dredge player needs to assemble to keep you from winning.

I think it comes down to your read of your opponent.  Is his hand have hate, mana and dredger light? Then setting yourself up for a turn 2 win is probably best.  Is his hand missing mana or hate, then Needle or Spellbomb.

In a tournament setting, I would have to say my play would probably be to get Needle in play on the Bazaar hampering it's use if there is no hate in hand because I would expect them to have it and be digging for mana.  I would have a hard time sculpting the turn 2 win in my head being a newer player and tend to play more controlling rather than aggressive.

I'd be curious what a Dredge player's input on playing against the options.

[hitman]

If you've read enough Dredge tournament reports, you'd see that to fit in all the cards they need to, they have to cut things like Fatestitcher and Dread Return. Game three, they're not so much a combo deck as an aggro deck.  Passing one turn without a reliable way for them to interact with you isn't loose.  It's your best bet at winning game three straight up.  Like you said, they probably have an answer to your hate in their hand since they're bringing in so much removal so getting the Spellbomb, which is really just a speedbump anyway, is the looser route since that's the line of play they're most prepared for.  They're not keeping super fast hands.  They're keeping hands that can interact and get there over the course of a couple turns.  By going the Blightsteel route, you're open for one turn to Chain of Vapor but you're still Time Walking and can topdeck out of it or you simply win the game.  By getting hate, they just remove it and continue dredging so you've effectively wasted a super powerful spell and probably aren't any further along towards winning the game besides an extra land drop from the extra turn you got.  If you decide to get disruption, like Spellbomb, and end up upkeep tutoring for Tinker, they actually have more time and resources to find the Chain of Vapor that blows you out.

Also, I really like this deck.  This is probably the best deck I've seen in a long time.  Good job on the decklist.

[ReubenG]

@hitman,

I understand and agree Dredge is going to take out a number of Fatestichers, Dread Returns, and DR Targets.  I was just trying to say that in going for either hate or the win, the dredge player will only need 3 cards to answer your threat or GY hate.  Both need mana and a dredger to be effective, but the key is getting a answer to your hate (chain of vapor or nature's claim) or a way to strip your win con (Cabal Therapy) or bounce it (chain of vapor).  

Now maybe someone wants to crunch the numbers, but lets look at it this way.

Dredge will have 8 answers to needle, but it will limit their dig to 3 cards (2 from Bazaar and 1 draw), and the answers have to be in hand or drawn from the library.

Dredge will have 4 ways to strip your tutor, but they can dig 5 cards off the library (4 from Bazaar and 1 draw), but this answer can be also be dredged and cast by sac'ing a creature (chain and nature's claim can't be cast from the yard).  Additionally, they have 4 ways to bounce your win condition in chain of vapor.

So Chain of Vapor with mana will ruin all scenarios.  Nature's Claim will stop Needle and Spellbomb, Cabal Therapy will stop the tutor if cast twice (but can be done with 1 in hand).  I think they are close, but I tend to favor controlling the Bazaar to reduce the cards they have access to.

[chrispikula]

There is a real difference between Needle and Spellbomb though. If you get Needle, they will be put a dredger in the yard in response to you casting needle, and and then they can dredge on their draw step.  Spellbomb nullfies any dredging they do until their next main phase, which is essentially timewalking them, right?

[hitman]

Yeah, if you're getting a sideboard card, Spellbomb makes a lot more sense than Needle.  That's why I say after all is said and done, if you go with the hate, they have one more turn and see an extra card.  Both plays are weak to Chain of Vapor on Blightsteel.  I guess it's a choice.  My way, they see fewer cards to get to the Chain of Vapor but your way doesn't give them a window in one turn to kill you.  I think they're probably not able to in that one turn but different people sideboard differently and who knows. 

[chrispikula]

I also wanted to point out that this tourney was super smooth. I was out of there before midnight even though we didn't start playing until 12:30 and my semi-final match took two hours.  Also the venue is super convenient for food and such.