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Author Topic: Speed Dredge  (Read 6340 times)
Troy_Costisick
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« on: September 12, 2011, 12:42:39 pm »

Heya guys,

Iím experimenting with the new card from Innistrad:



I like the idea of having to interact even LESS with my opponent with this deck.  Laboratory Maniac provides a perfect wincon for Dredge and lets us goldfish even more.  My idea for this deck is to build upon the Vintage Champs list and make it even faster and more draw-oriented.  Hereís my list:

//NAME: Speed Dredge
// Lands
        4 Bazaar of Baghdad
        4 Cephalid Coliseum
        2 Dakmor Salvage
        4 Undiscovered Paradise
        2 City of Brass
// Creatures
        4 Bloodghast
        3 Fatestitcher
        4 Golgari Grave-Troll
        4 Golgari Thug
        1 Ichorid
        4 Narcomoeba
        4 Stinkweed Imp
        2 Street Wraith
        1 Laboratory Maniac
// Spells
        4 Cabal Therapy
        4 Careful Study
        1 Dread Return
        4 Gitaxian Probe
// Artifacts
        1 Lion's Eye Diamond
        1 Lotus Petal
        1 Black Lotus
        1 Mox Sapphire
// Sideboard
SB:  4 Chain of Vapor
SB:  4 Darkblast
SB:  4 Leyline of Sanctity
SB:  3 Steel Sabotage

The thing about this list that just amazes me is just how fast it is and just how quick it can get off even without a Bazaar.  I know itís bad to play spells in Dredge, but Careful Study adds a lot to increase its speed in this matchup.  Itís like playing 8 Fatestitchers.  I can burn through my deck so fast with this card.  I've gotten many turn 1 kills on MWS with this thing.  I've run into situations where my opening hand is Bazaar, Grave Troll, Mox, Careful Studdy, Petal, Coliseum, (card).  I end up Dredging into a Fatestitcher and mill, mill, mill, until I win.

Thanks to being able to dump Bridge from Below and most of the Dread Returns + their targets, this deck can focus just on drawing and discarding.  Thereís a lot of slots to play with.  The Street Wraith and Gitaxian Probe are there to help add additional draws but can be subbed out for better cards if there are any.  Iím not sure itís necessary to run 4x Cabal Therapy either.  That can probably be dropped to 3 and increase Fatestitchers to 4.  So thereís plenty of room for improvement.

There are some risks with this deck, tho.  Countermagic becomes better in Game 1.  Laboratory Maniac can get exiled in games 2 and 3 by LotV if weíre not careful.  Finally, we can get hit Ancestral Recall and lose with Maniac on the stack.

All that being said, I think thereís some deck design space here.  What do you guys think?

Peace,

-Troy
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Womba
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« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2011, 12:59:42 pm »

LOLs. I am working on something utilizing this guy in Dredge as well. I found that keeping the Sun Titan engine is actually the way to go, as it provides an outlet for an attack to just kill them, as well as it actually returns Laboratory Manic. I wanted a little less risk rather than going all in on the mill plan especially since they will prepare for it game 2. However, the great part about this is you care even less about Leyline of the Void, especially if you can cast your Laboratory Manic. I also find that Breakthrough is just better than Careful Study.



4 Bazaar of Baghdad
2 Dakmor Salvage
4 Undiscovered Paradise
2 City of Brass
4 Bloodghast
3 Fatestitcher
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
3 Golgari Thug
4 Narcomoeba
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Sun Titan
1 Laboratory Maniac
1 Flame-Kin Zealot
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Bridge from Below
3 Breakthrough
3 Dread Return
3 Gitaxian Probe
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Lotus Petal
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire

Don't really have a SB yet, but I feel its going to be non-traditional since your deck can literally play through all traditional Dredge hate cards if you can land a Manic on board. Maybe something where you bring in more lands and more Manics to actually hardcast him... I was also thinking about Dread Returning Leveler to speed up the process, but still testing that one...
« Last Edit: September 12, 2011, 01:05:47 pm by Womba » Logged

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madmanmike25
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« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2011, 01:28:19 pm »

Quote
Finally, we can get hit Ancestral Recall and lose with Maniac on the stack.

How exactly is this possible?  Maniac is a replacement effect, so if they Recall you, then you win right?
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Troy_Costisick
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« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2011, 01:29:32 pm »

Quote
Finally, we can get hit Ancestral Recall and lose with Maniac on the stack.

How exactly is this possible?  Maniac is a replacement effect, so if they Recall you, then you win right?


If Maniac is on the stack, and they hit you w/ Ancestral with 2 or less cards in your deck, you'll lose before he comes into play.
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voltron00x
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« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2011, 01:43:09 pm »

I think I'd be inclined to build this a bit differently.  Building without Serum Powder scares the crap out of me, but with it, you probably need 2 Maniacs.  I still think that's how I would go... maybe:

4 Serum Powder
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
1 Dakmor Salvage
4 Undiscovered Paradise
2 City of Brass
3 Bloodghast
3 Fatestitcher
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
2 Golgari Thug
4 Narcomoeba
4 Stinkweed Imp
2 Sun Titan
2 Laboratory Maniac
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Bridge from Below
2 Street Wraith
3 Dread Return
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Lotus Petal
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
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madmanmike25
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« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2011, 01:47:46 pm »

Ah, you meant Dread Return targeting Maniac.  Gotcha.
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nineisnoone
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« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2011, 09:12:28 am »

LOLs. I am working on something utilizing this guy in Dredge as well. I found that keeping the Sun Titan engine is actually the way to go, as it provides an outlet for an attack to just kill them, as well as it actually returns Laboratory Manic. I wanted a little less risk rather than going all in on the mill plan especially since they will prepare for it game 2. However, the great part about this is you care even less about Leyline of the Void, especially if you can cast your Laboratory Manic. I also find that Breakthrough is just better than Careful Study.

Don't really have a SB yet, but I feel its going to be non-traditional since your deck can literally play through all traditional Dredge hate cards if you can land a Manic on board. Maybe something where you bring in more lands and more Manics to actually hardcast him... I was also thinking about Dread Returning Leveler to speed up the process, but still testing that one...

Good point. I like the list you posted further down.

I really like the idea of playing him and ignoring the hate (at least non anti-Bazaar cards). Perhaps you could play some of the Karoo lands from Ravenica, since it seems like it would be difficult to get enough mana from three sources.
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« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2011, 09:52:03 pm »


In game 2 how will you live long enough to cast Laboratory Maniac, keep him on the board, and mill yourself to victory, all while the opponent is trying to go off ?
will you still be able to dredge through the hate ? (leyline & Jailer specifically)
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« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2011, 04:10:32 pm »


In game 2 how will you live long enough to cast Laboratory Maniac, keep him on the board, and mill yourself to victory, all while the opponent is trying to go off ?
will you still be able to dredge through the hate ? (leyline & Jailer specifically)

One could try siding in Demonic Consultation, Vampiric Tutor, Mystical Tutor, etc. etc. maybe?
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nineisnoone
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« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2011, 06:21:42 pm »

In game 2 how will you live long enough to cast Laboratory Maniac, keep him on the board, and mill yourself to victory, all while the opponent is trying to go off ?
will you still be able to dredge through the hate ? (leyline & Jailer specifically)

The idea isn't that suddenly everything becomes easy post-board. The issue is that you no longer care about RFG cards as you did before, since you don't need to worry about dredging anything specific. You get a combo win without having to worry about the board position or having enough creatures for a fast kill.

So the answer is "the same way you would before, but better."
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Troy_Costisick
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« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2011, 07:23:09 pm »


In game 2 how will you live long enough to cast Laboratory Maniac, keep him on the board, and mill yourself to victory, all while the opponent is trying to go off ?
will you still be able to dredge through the hate ? (leyline & Jailer specifically)

One could try siding in Demonic Consultation, Vampiric Tutor, Mystical Tutor, etc. etc. maybe?

Demonic Consultation is an interesting suggestion!
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meadbert
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« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2011, 10:11:44 pm »

So Consult + Maniac is a 4cc win condition?  That is pretty good even if you must wait a turn for your next "draw."
Could be some interesting Doomsday Piles.
Tainted Pact highlander is another option for emptying your whole library.
Oath obviously works the next turn if you run Maniac as your only creature.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2011, 10:39:39 pm by meadbert » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2011, 04:37:26 pm »

In game 2 how will you live long enough to cast Laboratory Maniac, keep him on the board, and mill yourself to victory, all while the opponent is trying to go off ?
will you still be able to dredge through the hate ? (leyline & Jailer specifically)

The idea isn't that suddenly everything becomes easy post-board. The issue is that you no longer care about RFG cards as you did before, since you don't need to worry about dredging anything specific. You get a combo win without having to worry about the board position or having enough creatures for a fast kill.

So the answer is "the same way you would before, but better."

What's the combo? Even with Maniac and bazaar thats around 20 turns b4 you deck yourself. I understand you plan on dodging the hate much like transformable Worldgorger. I built a transforming sub-optimum Dredge/Oath. Casting the oath post board completely dodged hate, while filling the yard if no hate. How does it win ?? you answer is pretty vague, and 20 turns is a lot of time for an opponent tod something, other than demonic consultation, whats the combo ?
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Bosaapje
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« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2011, 06:42:15 am »

Hmm, maybe I'm saying something really weird. But isn't it an idea to play Crop Rotation as a one or 2 off? Because, you don't any Serum Powders so there has to be a Bazaar in your hand. Just as one off, if you're playing 16 lands orso, you can sac a land to tutor for Bazaar. Or am I now just saying nonsense.
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« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2011, 08:27:25 am »

Hmm, maybe I'm saying something really weird. But isn't it an idea to play Crop Rotation as a one or 2 off? Because, you don't any Serum Powders so there has to be a Bazaar in your hand. Just as one off, if you're playing 16 lands orso, you can sac a land to tutor for Bazaar. Or am I now just saying nonsense.

You keep a 7 card hand with land, Crop rotation, 5 random. You cast Crop Rotation. Your opponent counters it with Force of Will or Mental Misstep. Game over.

-> Just don't play without Serum Powder EVER. Unless you are Jake Gans. *rolleyes*
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Bosaapje
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« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2011, 06:09:26 am »

Yeah, that would be pretty bad if that happens. Was just a thought, the reason why I said it was because I missed Serum Powder on the previous decklist of Voltron00x.
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c dizzle
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« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2012, 06:02:41 pm »

I was excited to see a thread about this (even if it is a little old). I am selling the last of my collection and being done with Magic, though I created a Dredge build that tested extremely well. For whatever reason, my teammates and I never found occassion to go to a tourney after I built this. I built it before Dredge got Caged, so it may not be useful, but the turn 2 win percentage in goldfishing was high enough that I wanted to share it. I hope someone can run with it.

Land

4x Bazaar of Baghdad
3x City of Brass
2x Dakmor Salvage
4x Undiscovered Paradise

Artifacts

1x Black Lotus
1x Lion's Eye Diamond
4x Serum Powder

Sorceries

4x Cabal Therapy
3x Dread Return

Instants

1x Chain of Vapor

Enchantments

4x Bridge from Below

Creatures

4x Bloodghast
4x Fatestitcher
4x Golgari Grave-Troll
4x Golgari Thug
2x Laboratory Maniac
4x Narcomoeba
4x Stinkweed Imp
3x Sun Titan
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