SCD - Chaos Orb - Proposed errata for local rules play.

[Royal Ass.]

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?22095-SCD-Chaos-Orb-Proposed-errata-for-local-rules-play.

I started a similar thread over at the Source but I am more interested in hearing people who actually played when Chaos Orb was legal and I think I might have a better chance here.  Below is my original post and some follow up comments.

I started playing magic back in 94 and Chaos Orb was considered one of the best and most feared cards. I remember getting all my lands blown up by Chaos Orb multiple times. The rule at the time was that once someone played Chaos Orb you could not move your cards and when Chaos Orb landed on a card it destroyed all the cards underneath it. This was a problem for a dorky 6th grader like myself because I stacked my lands on top of each other.

Now that I have given you some history about my experience with Chaos Orb I want to discuss a local rule errata for playing this card amongst your commander group.

The first question to ask is; Why do you want to play with Chaos Orb?
For me much of commander is the nostalgia element that it provides me. My deck has many of the old school cards that I wanted to own back when I was a kid by my weekly $5 allowance wouldn't allow. Chaos Orb is one of those cards.

There are two reasons that Chaos Orb is banned in constructive Vintage Play. The first reason is because it messed with the playing field because people don't want to have their cards too close to each other so as not to get X for oned. The second reason is because it requires manual dexterity.

The manual dexteritiy reason should not really apply to commander because it is a casual format and hell, shuffling a 100 card deck is a lot more physically difficult than dropping a card onto the table.

The real issue when addressing an errata to make Chaos Orb legal is the first issue dealing with playing space and spreading out cards. Thus to address that issue I propose the following errata:

1, Tap: If Chaos Orb is on the battlefield, chose another card on the battlefield and flip Chaos Orb onto the battlefield from a height of at least one foot. If Chaos Orb turns over completely at least once during the flip, destroy the chosen card if Chaos Orb touches it upon landing. All equipments and auras on the chosen card are also destroyed. Then destroy Chaos Orb.

This errata makes it so that you actually chose (though not target) the card you want to destroy and does away with the problem of people having to spread cards out. In a way it makes Chaos Orb worse because you usually only get a 1 for 1, making Chaos Orb essentially a colorless vindicate with the downside of missing.

I added the part about destroying equipments and enchantments attached to the chosen card because it fits in with the flavor of the card and also pays homage to the history of how the card function in that it destroyed any card under the card Chaos Orb was touching.

I plan on testing this errated version of Chaos Orb next time I play commander. I'll let people know about it before the game since it is technically a banned card in EDH. However, I think with this errata it is a very fair card for EDH and also makes for a fun game event. One of the nice things about Chaos Orb is that since it doesn't target, it can take out a creature with Lightning Greeves as well as taking out the equipment.

Please let me know your thoughts on this errata and the use of Chaos Orb in EDH play.

Follow Up Post:

I should re-iterate that one of my goals when coming up with an errata was to try to best preserve the original functionality and flavor of the card while mitigating the problems that the card created for the game state. I wanted to change the card to solve the play space problem but still have it "feel" like you are playing the original Chaos Orb. I think the flipping the card and having it destroy what it lands on it integral to this and any errata that removes that element of the card ultimately defeats the purpose.

I see the manual dexterity issue as a non-issue for EDH and thus the only problem I am trying to solve is the issue of people spreading their cards out to avoid getting "X for oned" on the flip.

I guess I should ask - do people think that the manual dexterity element of the card is actually an issue for EDH?

Also I would be interested in hearing from someone who played back when Chaos Orb was legal, and what they think about the proposed local rule errata.

[Delha]

You run into the opposite problem with your templating. It encourages stacking for the sake of minimizing the surface area of a given card. If your General has only the name bar visible due to being covered by say a Whispersilk Cloak, it's clearly a smaller target than if it were completely uncovered.

I'd suggest adding text to ensure that the card be 100% uncovered before the flip.

[Royal Ass.]

The templating is a little loose now I agree.  I just wanted somethign workable for the discussion.  But I figured that it was obvious that you couldn't stack cards.  I think that would be clunky to have in the errata text.  Seems more like something that would be added as a DCI ruling to clarify.

[Delha]

The templating is a little loose now I agree.  I just wanted somethign workable for the discussion.  But I figured that it was obvious that you couldn't stack cards.  I think that would be clunky to have in the errata text.  Seems more like something that would be added as a DCI ruling to clarify.

To my knowledge, there's nothing in the rules currently that says you can't stack lands/etc (though completely covering something is presumably illegal).

Also, are you suggesting this as official errata, or as a house rule? I thought it was the latter, in which case the DCI is never going to get involved, and you pretty much need to make the card self sufficient.

[Royal Ass.]

Suggesting it as a House Rule or something that the Commander rules people could adopt specifically to make the card playable for EDH.  Although the DCI could still make an errata for the card along the lines of what I'm proposing and continue to keep it banned due to motor skills reasons. 

[AmbivalentDuck]

1,T: If Chaos Orb is in play, choose a permanent.  Place an unsleeved Magic card on a table.  Flip another unsleeved Magic from a height of at least one foot above the table.  If the flipped card turned over completely during the flip and it touched the card on the table, destroy the chosen permanent and all permanents attached to it..

[magic geek]

I am proud of "My" rule in Magic.

It concerns Chaos Orb.

At a side tourney at worlds 95, a guy was digging up his chaos orb and using it every turn with an argivian archeologist.
So, I started only playing my permanents beside the 4 different sides of my library.
Then I realised In could fan out my library by pulling lower cards further and further out, making a very large "shield".

The judge didn't have a rule to stop me with, so they made one up.
Because of me, the library became defined as a single stack of cards, piled one on top of each other.

[Killane]

1,T: If Chaos Orb is in play, choose a permanent.  Place an unsleeved Magic card on a table.  Flip another unsleeved Magic from a height of at least one foot above the table.  If the flipped card turned over completely during the flip and it touched the card on the table, destroy the chosen permanent and all permanents attached to it..

perfect. Love it.

[John Jones]

Note: Just for reference, it is not that bad.

[PDM]

My favorite chaos orb story was back in early 95 playing against a guy on an incredibly hot summer afternoon with a small fan sitting on the table blowing up at our faces. He holds the card up in the air and flips it and it blows about ten feet across the room. My and my friends were laughing our asses off at him because he always beat out crappy revised decks with his fully powered deck and then he had the gull to ask for a redo. It pretty much made my year.