[deck] Mana Drain Painter Urb

[JuzamDjinn]

Start of edit
Updated decklist:

1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Echoing Truth
4 Force of Will
1 Hurkyl's Recall
4 Mana Drain
1 Mystical Tutor
2 Mental Misstep
1 Sensei’s Divining Top
1 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Brainstorm
1 Time Walk
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Painter’s Servant
3 Trinket Mage
2 Grindstone
1 Fire / Ice
4 Dark Confidant
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor

1 Flooded Strand
3 Island
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Strip Mine
3 Volcanic Island
3 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:

2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Meekstone
1 Pithing Needle
1 Aether Spellbomb
4 Red Elemental Blast
3 Yixlid Jailer
2 Ingot Chewer
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
End of edit

I got advised to start a new thread for this deck in the Jace Control thread. I play in an unpowered/semi powered metagame. (That means no MUD, STAX, Gush, Tendrils). Most likely meta will be Oath, Tezz/Painter, Fish and Aggro (hatebears, goblins, affinity, vengevine stuff) and perhaps Bazaar less Dredge). I am tired of Oath (every powerless metagame’s powerhouse) and Zoo (really effective in this meta) and wanted to try something new. Here is my twist on a Jace control deck.

Jace the Painter

1 Lotus Petal
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Echoing Truth
4 Force of Will
1 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Mana Drain
1 Misdirection
1 Mystical Tutor
2 Mental Misstep
3 Preordain
1 Brainstorm
1 Time Walk
3 Red Elemental Blast
4 Painter’s Servant
4 Trinket Mage
2 Grindstone
1 Fire / Ice

1 Flooded Strand
7 Island
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Strip Mine
4 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland

A) I have cut the Standstill/Mishra’s Factory package because I’m not sure if it is the best choice in this meta.

B) I have chosen the painterpackage instead of the 4 Snapcaster Mage package. I don’t have the Snapcasters (yet) and I felt Trinket Mage toolbox could be good in my metagame along with a strong win condition.   

As you can see I don’t own Ancestral Recall or Black Lotus (yet).

For sideboard I am thinking something like this:

1 Tinker
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Aether Spellbomb
1 Meekstone
1 Firespout
4 Leyline of the Void

Please reply on my choices if you see something you would have done different.

[honestabe]

Probably cut some number of trinket mages.

[JuzamDjinn]

Probably cut some number of trinket mages.

The reasons I have 4 is because I don't have any other way to tutor for Grindstone since I'm not running black, and because of SoLoMoxen and toolbox it seems it would rarely be a bad draw. But if I was to cut one, what would you replace it with?

[Lemnear]

Here we are 

What's your meta? I ask because the value of Red Elemental Blast depends strongly on it. Second I have the feeling that Trinket Mage and the grindstone-combo is very, very expensive for an unpowered deck and nearly forces you to tap out several times. Even Goblins will race you with ease.

Of you want to play unpowered Painter I would cut a lot of slots like the Jaces, Preordains, Petal etc. and add at least a Sensei's Divining Top, a Tormods Crypt and a mana crypt to the mainboard.

Consider a splash for black; Vampiric, Demonic and Confidants as draw engine protected by misstep is nothing to ignore. Snapcaster is great with red-splash as I pointed out in the Jace Control thread but doesn't work well with mana drain mana that pushes Sorcery-Speed-Play. Your decision if you want to build around Drain and Grindstone or not

[JuzamDjinn]

Here we are  

What's your meta? I ask because the value of Red Elemental Blast depends strongly on it.

I don’t have more information about the metagame, only the one mentioned in the OP, sorry. I am unsure about the presence of blue (50%-75%), nothing compared to top level tournaments. Due to aggro, hatebears, Bob and Lackey perhaps this should be Lightning Bolt instead?

Second I have the feeling that Trinket Mage and the Grindstone-combo is very, very expensive for an unpowered deck and nearly forces you to tap out several times. Even Goblins will race you with ease.

I disagree. I haven’t seen a lot of t3 or t4 wins lately, at least not when I counter their Ritual, Lackey or Oath. But you may be correct; I guess I will find out in my next tournament.

If you want to play unpowered Painter I would cut a lot of slots like the Jaces, Preordains, Petal etc. and add at least a Sensei's Divining Top, a Tormods Crypt and a mana crypt to the mainboard.

Petal is an easy cut, I just play it because I don’t have lotus. Preordains is for digging, but with 4 Trinket Mage to find the 2 Grindstones and some draw to find one of the four Painter’s Servant perhaps Preordain is not needed. Will cut; -1 Lotus Petal, -1 Preordain, +1 Mana Crypt, +1 Sensei’s Divining Top. MD Tormod’s Crypt seems dead in some situations? But against Dredge, Reanimator, Tarmogoyf, Vengevinecombo, Yawgmoth’s Will…. Perhaps not. Are you sure Crypt is better than Relic of Progenitus? Would like to hear some more of your arguments about this. Anyways: -1 Preordain, +1 Tormod’s Crypt.

Consider a splash for black; Vampiric, Demonic and Confidants as draw engine protected by misstep is nothing to ignore. Snapcaster is great with red-splash as I pointed out in the Jace Control thread but doesn't work well with mana drain mana that pushes Sorcery-Speed-Play. Your decision if you want to build around Drain and Grindstone or not

Yes. Would like to build around Mana Drain and Grindstone. I’m not sure about the black splash tough. Vampiric, Demonic, Bob x 4 is 6 slots. Not sure what to take out. I'm beginning to like this build more and more with the two colors currently played. If going to fit 4xBob, 1xVampiric and 1xDemonic, what would you take out?

Edit:

Jace the Painter

1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Echoing Truth
4 Force of Will
1 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Mana Drain
1 Misdirection (Blightsteel Colossus?)
1 Mystical Tutor
2 Mental Misstep
1 Preordain (Tinker?)
1 Sensei’s Divining Top
1 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Brainstorm
1 Time Walk
3 Lightning Bolt
4 Painter’s Servant
4 Trinket Mage
2 Grindstone
1 Fire / Ice

1 Flooded Strand
7 Island
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Strip Mine
4 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland

[Lemnear]

I'll keep this short because I'm in the train:

Yeah Lightning Bolt was the point I was trying to make. Try these.

 If you play painter t2, trinket T3 and grindstone and mill turn 4 it can be too slow for goblins, hatebears etc. Call to mind that the weakest link is painter especially because you have no Tutor for this piece and others will aim for hatebears and shit too Running their own bolts (reason I suggested Misstep in the Jace thread...I guess I did).

Save some space for artifactremoval, nullrod/needle/revoker your Stone sux.

IF you want to run Tinket mage it costs 3 to clear a graveyard. Relic costs 5. That's the reason.

For the Black-Splash: cut 1 painter, 2 Jace, misdirection, the last preordain and a trinket mage. Easy One. If you play grindstone in vintage a lil longer you'll hate multiple Trinkets and painter in your hand, trust me and look at some lists of Florian Hess (bisamratte here), he's a vintage painter expert that won several Big tournaments with it. Don't play Tinker in a low powered list, you will hate it.

[JuzamDjinn]

I'll keep this short because I'm in the train:

Yeah Lightning Bolt was the point I was trying to make. Try these.

 If you play painter t2, trinket T3 and grindstone and mill turn 4 it can be too slow for goblins, hatebears etc. Call to mind that the weakest link is painter especially because you have no Tutor for this piece and others will aim for hatebears and shit too Running their own bolts (reason I suggested Misstep in the Jace thread...I guess I did).


Save some space for artifactremoval, nullrod/needle/revoker your Stone sux.

MD: 1 Echoing Truth, 1 Hurkyl’s Recall, 3 Bolts+1 Fire/Ice (Revoker) + 10 counterspells.

IF you want to run Tinket mage it costs 3 to clear a graveyard. Relic costs 5. That's the reason.

For the Black-Splash: cut 1 painter, 2 Jace, misdirection, the last preordain and a trinket mage. Easy One. If you play grindstone in vintage a lil longer you'll hate multiple Trinkets and painter in your hand, trust me and look at some lists of Florian Hess (bisamratte here), he's a vintage painter expert that won several Big tournaments with it. Don't play Tinker in a low powered list, you will hate it.

Yeah, paying 3 instead of 5 seems like a valid argument for Tormod’s Crypt. I did the black splash you recommended and forget about the Tinker for now. I cut 4 Islands for 2 more fetches and 2 Underground Sea. Not sure if that is the correct number, it may be 3 or 4, and fetches may be from 4 to 6. I am also beginning to ponder about the 6 colorless lands in my pool. Library of Alexandria seems pretty safe, so does the single Strip Mine. But what about the Wasteland? Hopefully sometime soon I can trade 1 of them for 1 Mox Jet. But does my manabase look solid enough to run 6 colorless lands? Thank you for your time 

1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Echoing Truth
4 Force of Will
1 Hurkyl's Recall
4 Mana Drain
1 Mystical Tutor
2 Mental Misstep
1 Sensei’s Divining Top
1 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Brainstorm
1 Time Walk
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Painter’s Servant
3 Trinket Mage
2 Grindstone
1 Fire / Ice
4 Dark Confidant
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor

1 Flooded Strand
3 Island
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Strip Mine
4 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland

[Lemnear]

Split U.Sea and Volcanic 3/3 if possible, aside from that it should be fine. Wasteland is good of you play unpowered; maybe you find a Bazaar, Shop or Academy to kill.

Put 4 REB, 3 Jixlid Jailer, 2 more crypts, a pithing needle, some ingot chewer and shit to the SB and your ready to roll.

[JuzamDjinn]

Split U.Sea and Volcanic 3/3 if possible, aside from that it should be fine. Wasteland is good of you play unpowered; maybe you find a Bazaar, Shop or Academy to kill.

Put 4 REB, 3 Jixlid Jailer, 2 more crypts, a pithing needle, some ingot chewer and shit to the SB and your ready to roll.

Thank you. I will do that. I will also read some of the decklist provided by Florian Hess, do you know if he has written any reports? I will necro this thread as soon as I play this build in a tournament, hopefully soon

[JuzamDjinn]

Split U.Sea and Volcanic 3/3 if possible, aside from that it should be fine. Wasteland is good of you play unpowered; maybe you find a Bazaar, Shop or Academy to kill.

Put 4 REB, 3 Jixlid Jailer, 2 more crypts, a pithing needle, some ingot chewer and shit to the SB and your ready to roll.

Thanks, also added a Meekstone (my meta) and Aether Spellbomb for my sideboard toolbox.

I have recently purchased a Mox Jet. Not sure what to remove from the deck. Sol Ring and Mana Crypt is nice as they gives me  (much needed). I could do a switch -1 Wasteland, +1 Mox Jet (my favourite), does it seem okay?

[Daenyth]

I might go down an island. How often do you end up with 3 in play?

[SadDubs]

I find that for more casual, non powered metas, painter can be amazingly good. If you really have trouble with racing aggro of all decks, run some simian spirit guides to make up for the lack of moxen, its really not that big of a deal when your dealing with zoo. Maybe run some sower of temptations or magus of the moon to deal with niche threats. Hell, if goblins is such an issue run firespout or something; Ive even seen wrath 0f good played in such metas to great effect. The black splash is welcomed if you can manage it otherwise just focus on dealing with those niche threats.

[JuzamDjinn]

Thanks, did some testing this weekend with this side:

4 Red Elemental Blast
3 Yixlid Jailer
1 Trinket Mage
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Aether Spellbomb
1 Meekstone
1 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus (Edit: 1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor)
2 Ingot Chewer

Not sure about the Ingot Chewers tough... could perhaps be some other artifacthate, more tech for toolbox, or something against aggro.

[Darkenslight]

Not sure about the Ingot Chewers tough... could perhaps be some other artifacthate, more tech for toolbox, or something against aggro.

You can't Chalice Ingot Chewer's Evoke cost.  For that reason alone, it's a pretty powerful tool.

[JuzamDjinn]

You can't Chalice Ingot Chewer's Evoke cost.  For that reason alone, it's a pretty powerful tool.

What about 2 Ancient Grudge instead? And -1 Island, +1 Tropical Island in the main?

[Daenyth]

You can't Chalice Ingot Chewer's Evoke cost.  For that reason alone, it's a pretty powerful tool.

What about 2 Ancient Grudge instead? And -1 Island, +1 Tropical Island in the main?

Grudge is pretty awesome, but chewer is also fairly flexible. I've brought him in against fishy things from time to time, hitting canonist, null rods, chalices, vials, and generally being bigger than any creature in their deck.