"The Unbroken" U/R Landstill: The Primer

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

I personally don't like it. It is mana intensive, and when it comes to mana intensity I want 4 jace 2 crucible and that's it...that's just how I run, I'm sure some lists can run the Mage but jace is just better...

[Jblaze4lif]

I think the key to getting snapcaster good in this deck is more 1 casting cost spells.

Lightning bolt
Brainstorm
Red elemental blast
Ancestral Recall
(Possibly Spell pierce)

And then the 2 CC

Mana drain
Hurkyls recall
Fire/Ice

With the strength of Shop 3 main deck lightning bolt and 3 Snapcaster could help vs the Golems and Revokers on Jace.

How does this deck deal with Dredge?

[Cruel Ultimatum]

I think the key to getting snapcaster good in this deck is more 1 casting cost spells.

Lightning bolt
Brainstorm
Red elemental blast
Ancestral Recall
(Possibly Spell pierce)

And then the 2 CC

Mana drain
Hurkyls recall
Fire/Ice

With the strength of Shop 3 main deck lightning bolt and 3 Snapcaster could help vs the Golems and Revokers on Jace.

How does this deck deal with Dredge?

Snapcaster mage is much weaker if you only have reactive cards. Snapcasters are also not very good against shops because they are so mana intensive and especially bad against spheres.

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

I was 3-0 bs dredge at vintage champs until I lost my win and in round after time was called. I think the dredge matchup is fine

[Cruel Ultimatum]

I was 3-0 bs dredge at vintage champs until I lost my win and in round after time was called. I think the dredge matchup is fine

You also had seas and jailers at worlds right?

I could see playing white after rtr for rest in peace and swords if you want them. I guess I should note that it does cut off your crucibles.

[Jblaze4lif]

I think the key to getting snapcaster good in this deck is more 1 casting cost spells.

Lightning bolt
Brainstorm
Red elemental blast
Ancestral Recall
(Possibly Spell pierce)

And then the 2 CC

Mana drain
Hurkyls recall
Fire/Ice

With the strength of Shop 3 main deck lightning bolt and 3 Snapcaster could help vs the Golems and Revokers on Jace.

How does this deck deal with Dredge?

Snapcaster mage is much weaker if you only have reactive cards. Snapcasters are also not very good against shops because they are so mana intensive and especially bad against spheres.

You are absolutely correct. I didn't think about the targets as all reactive. Thanks.

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

I was 3-0 bs dredge at vintage champs until I lost my win and in round after time was called. I think the dredge matchup is fine

You also had seas and jailers at worlds right?

I could see playing white after rtr for rest in peace and swords if you want them. I guess I should note that it does cut off your crucibles.

I had 4 Leyline 3 cage 1 jailer. And yes I agree rest in peace gives a new option, I really like the card!

[Jblaze4lif]

I noticed in the list you ran about a month ago 1st place finish only had 3 Wasteland with 1 extra fetch land. How were the results of this change? Was it easier to get the double blue needed for Mana drain. Did you miss the 4th wasteland at all?

[Cruel Ultimatum]

I noticed in the list you ran about a month ago 1st place finish only had 3 Wasteland with 1 extra fetch land. How were the results of this change? Was it easier to get the double blue needed for Mana drain. Did you miss the 4th wasteland at all?

That was Chris Pikula. Oshkoshhaitsjosh is josh potucek.

[Andreas]

This is likely a rather silly idea, but has anyone considered a singleton expedition map in the EE version? Would serve as a second library or strip mine, the latter being particularly nice under Crucible. Or a basic island if all else fails.

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

Sounds pretty poor...I have tested tolaria west and academy ruins in landstill lists with EE. It was fun and cute when it worked but almost unnecessary...

Problem with map is u need to cut a spell for it. Where tolaria is a land and. In worst case scenario it can be played as a land and not a fetch to get a EE or a toolbox or other lands...

[credmond]

This is likely a rather silly idea, but has anyone considered a singleton expedition map in the EE version? Would serve as a second library or strip mine, the latter being particularly nice under Crucible. Or a basic island if all else fails.

It's not that bad of an idea. It can grab a factory or conclave too. The real problem is that I expect null rod and null rod effects to be more of a presence in the emerging meta.

[Andreas]

Sounds pretty poor...I have tested tolaria west and academy ruins in landstill lists with EE. It was fun and cute when it worked but almost unnecessary...

Problem with map is u need to cut a spell for it. Where tolaria is a land and. In worst case scenario it can be played as a land and not a fetch to get a EE or a toolbox or other lands...

You are likely right with that assessment. I just wanted to mention that map has one distinct advantage over Tolaria West: It only costs colorless mana, and only one of the three it consumes need to be spent at sorcery speed.

[brokenbacon]

Josh is right though, taking up a slot in Landstill takes away from the streamlined nature of the build.
I think it's a really cool idea, I just don't think it's necessary.

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

Yeah what he said ^^^

Also Izzet Charm was made for this deck. It is NO JOKE, I can't wait to hit up some events soon...

[Andreas]

What is currently considered the correct number for Jace in this deck? I have seen successful lists with 3 of them and lists with 4.

[StanleyAugust]

What is currently considered the correct number for Jace in this deck? I have seen successful lists with 3 of them and lists with 4.

3 or 4 

[brokenbacon]

4 every time, IMO

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

4, it's not even close. You get ahead with standstill and/or jace, so you need to see them. When you play less of them and don't draw one things don't go as well...

If I hypothetically ran 3 jace I would run scroll or mystical to get recall. That being said I have been there and done that and I prefer 4 jace

[orgcandman]

I have had different experiences than you, Josh. The ability for izzet charm to hit players is certainly quite relevant in the control mirror. Combing out to deal 8+ damage in a turn to end the game comes up quite often for me.

In the aggro matchup, I don't see that izzet charm has a huge advantage over fire/ice, though I can see occasion where the counter ability would be more important than the tap from ice.

What is your ratio of burn spells?

I have also returned to disk, in this heavy shop meta game. The ability to slip ahead by incredible amounts of CA with disk is pretty amazing, and I have found ratchet bomb, powder keg, and sometimes even ee unable to hit the things I want to hit in a timely fashion. I haven't tested a null rod version of the deck, yet. What are your thought on board sweeping?

[Samoht]

I have had different experiences than you, Josh. The ability for izzet charm to hit players is certainly quite relevant in the control mirror. Combing out to deal 8+ damage in a turn to end the game comes up quite often for me.

In the aggro matchup, I don't see that izzet charm has a huge advantage over fire/ice, though I can see occasion where the counter ability would be more important than the tap from ice.

What is your ratio of burn spells?

I have also returned to disk, in this heavy shop meta game. The ability to slip ahead by incredible amounts of CA with disk is pretty amazing, and I have found ratchet bomb, powder keg, and sometimes even ee unable to hit the things I want to hit in a timely fashion. I haven't tested a null rod version of the deck, yet. What are your thought on board sweeping?

izzet charm can't hit players

[orgcandman]

izzet charm can't hit players

That was my point. I should work on my wording, I guess.

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

I have been testing 3 charm 2 bolt in my current list. I really enjoy charm, as it is never dead. If it feels dead play it as a careful study...the decks that run creatures this card is good against, and the decks that don't run creatures this card is also fine against...and at times you can just recycle it to get fresh cards...

I have been extremely impressed with this card

This card was useful in testing vs Menendians new long pile as well. If it were fire/ice I would have been dead in the water a few times in testing. It's such a great card...

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

I played this today at Top Deck Games NJ, losing in the top 4. List was really good!

UR (Nevstill) Landstill
4 Standstill
4 Force of will
3 Mental misstep
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Misdirection
2 Mindbreak trap
4 Mana drain
3 Jace, the mindsculptor
2 Engineered explosives
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Hurkyl's recall
1 Steel Sabotage
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Izzet Charm
1 Ancestral recall

1 Black lotus
1 Mox sapphire
4 Scalding tarn
2 Island
1 Mountain
3 Volcanic island
2 Faerie Conclave
4 Mishra's factory
4 Wasteland
1 Strip mine
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Library of alexandria

Sideboard
4 Grafdigger's Cage
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Ingot Chewer
2 Viashino Heretic
1 Ghost Quarter

Round 1 Seth on Geist Delver deck (I lost to this last time in top 8 with landstill)
Game 1 - I lock seth out with crucible quarter lock after using ee and company to handle the board
Game 2 - I have control the whole game standstill gets me ahead. I double block geist with factory playing around swords to stabilize at less then 10 life. I cast chewer killing an equiptment of his...

Round 2 Butker on Doomsday Gush
Game 1 - I out control him using missteps and company, then standstill brings me back
Game 2 - I play library pass on a mull to 6 on the play. He plays doomsday I force. I was slow rolling a sapphire. I play sapphire and land, he tries doomsday again which I drain. I control into the win and lock his mana out with crucible.

Round 3 1-2 Loss to Midrange BUG fish Brad Jarman
Game 1 - He barely gets me and pings me with shaman atleast for 10 life...it did some work
Game 2 - I have too much removal. I misstep turn 1 shaman and stay in control
Game 3 - He has 2 quick bobs, I cast disk mid game to hope to clear the board. He flips sabotage off bob, he is at 1 life and I hardcast 2x chewers, he has end step snapcaster, and just survives to kill me. I was 1 turn short...

Round 4 Ralph on Oath
Game 1 - turn 1 orchard oath I LOSE!!!
Game 2 - turn 1 lotus land JACE!!! I bolt jace...then surprisingly ride control to a win...
Game 3 - TURN 1 MANA CRYPT ORCHARD OATH! I have cage with protection, GG! Made it out of this match barely

Round 5 ID with shops

Top 8 Bill Seas on Noble Fish with deathrite, noble, and GSZ package
Game 1 - I misplay into shaman with crucible forgetting he shuts crucible off...Awesome
Game 2 - He has trygon and pridemage out, I cast Jace with factory up to block pride. I bounce trygon, and pass...bounce next turn, then I drain trygon on his. I eventually stabilize this game at 4 life...
Game 3 - He mulls to 5 and has turn 2 GSZ for 0 to find arbor bc he is mana short. I force, he forces, I force again. I am left with 2 man lands and crucible which I am fine with. I draw a 3rd man land and use conclave and 2 factories to kill him!

Top 4 Jake Gans on Espresso
Game 1 - I have turn 1 Jace. Jake makes it close with stack, but i eventually get there.
Game 2 - I have 5 mana including sapphire, crucible, and chewer. He has turn 1 lodestone. I play sapphire, and then ghost quarter his shops. It was either make that play to set him back on mana or hoping that...He then plays metamorph on lodestone and I get blown out. Maybe I should have just chewered the golem.
Game 3 - 7 has 1 land, 6 has 1 land, and my 5 has 1 land, standstill, drain, trap, force. I play land go, he plays chalice 2 turn 1. I have to force. I then proceed TO STILL NOT DRAW LAND! I lose...I play 26 mana after sb so this felt like a fluke.

Conclusion - Disk won me 3 games on the day or got me ahead enough. I do like the mix of EE and other sweep spells, bc it makes it hard for meddling mage to name a card or revoker. The ghost quarter main was nutty. I locked 2 non shops decks out with it. The conclaves were great as well. I like this UR version A LOT! Disk looked awkward and the reaction of people was priceless, but it did work!

[cvarosky80]

Nev's Disk! That is just awesome!

[orgcandman]

I've been testing shaman over the second EE, and am in love with it. I want to find a way to fit more in, because it just wrecks remora based control, and the way it controls moxen beat EE every time. That said, I like EE as a board sweeper, and I like Disk. I've been less impressed with ratchet bomb/powder keg.

I top8'd at Pandemonium, a 42 person event, recently. Every time I saw shaman I felt happy. There were games where having a shaman where having a shaman in hand instead of a lot of other cards would have won games. Of course, not misplaying would have also won games, but Shaman is a beating right now. He pulls weight as a blocker vs. bob, a mana denial element, and a way of gutting vault-key/sensei's top.

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

I've been testing shaman over the second EE, and am in love with it. I want to find a way to fit more in, because it just wrecks remora based control, and the way it controls moxen beat EE every time. That said, I like EE as a board sweeper, and I like Disk. I've been less impressed with ratchet bomb/powder keg.

I top8'd at Pandemonium, a 42 person event, recently. Every time I saw shaman I felt happy. There were games where having a shaman where having a shaman in hand instead of a lot of other cards would have won games. Of course, not misplaying would have also won games, but Shaman is a beating right now. He pulls weight as a blocker vs. bob, a mana denial element, and a way of gutting vault-key/sensei's top.

Great congrats on the t8. I agree I wasn't too impressed with ratchet bomb when I played it either. I recently went back to the 3 color build to give access to EE at 3. Nev's disk was nice on occasions but a lot of the time EE would be just as good.

Shaman was always nice in the past. I hadn't tested him for a while as I was trying to dodge missteps for a long time, but I am glad to see you have success running that card again! Good Job!!!

[Samoht]

I've been testing shaman over the second EE, and am in love with it. I want to find a way to fit more in, because it just wrecks remora based control, and the way it controls moxen beat EE every time. That said, I like EE as a board sweeper, and I like Disk. I've been less impressed with ratchet bomb/powder keg.

I top8'd at Pandemonium, a 42 person event, recently. Every time I saw shaman I felt happy. There were games where having a shaman where having a shaman in hand instead of a lot of other cards would have won games. Of course, not misplaying would have also won games, but Shaman is a beating right now. He pulls weight as a blocker vs. bob, a mana denial element, and a way of gutting vault-key/sensei's top.

Great congrats on the t8. I agree I wasn't too impressed with ratchet bomb when I played it either. I recently went back to the 3 color build to give access to EE at 3. Nev's disk was nice on occasions but a lot of the time EE would be just as good.

Shaman was always nice in the past. I hadn't tested him for a while as I was trying to dodge missteps for a long time, but I am glad to see you have success running that card again! Good Job!!!

I had been playing a Shaman for a little while, I just felt him unnecessary with the EE's. I played him over the Null Rod's you used to run. I think EE is just better. Also, the deck needs Ancient Grudge too much to not be three colors.

[BaronSengir]

Nev's Disk! That is just awesome!

My thinking too!

[orgcandman]

I had been playing a Shaman for a little while, I just felt him unnecessary with the EE's. I played him over the Null Rod's you used to run. I think EE is just better. Also, the deck needs Ancient Grudge too much to not be three colors.

Is Ancient Grudge better than having Artifact Mutation? A.M. gives you access to something that Landstill historically doesn't have, in the form of a clock. I'm not sure - as I haven't tested it; it just seems that in every matchup that I'd want Ancient Grudge, I'd probably rather see Artifact Mutation, since following up with a standstill is MUCH better in that scenario.