Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

[Elric]

Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1W
Legendary Creature - Human Soldier   
First Strike
Noncreature spells cost 1 more to cast.
2/1

Card image: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127171&stc=1&d=1326344441

Other than being Legendary, this is a strict upgrade over Glowrider.  Would seemingly have a place in G/W hatebears (http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/vintage/23257_The_Guide_To_Vintages_Landscape_Attacking_The_Red_Zone.html for a list).  

[Onslaught]

Good lord, aggro just got a huge boost.

[Lemnear]

Not only aggro ... Stoneblade and countertop wets themselves too. What an annoying creature ... every set a new efficient Combo hate Card.

[Phele]

Always another hate bear for GW whatever aggro. I doubt, it will push this archetype over the top. But I do fear that Shops might use this. Sure, splashing White in the consistant and very strong MUD shell might not be the best idea. But a walking Thorn with First Strike is at least something to think about. And its not, that white wouldn't offer shops some other options. But in sum I think, a white splash wouldn't compensate the loss of mana stability and agressivity and that the legandary Status keeps this from being too good.

[shrewarmies]

 The selling point on this card for me is that it dodges pretty much all the early counter magic being played at the moment. Dodges pierce,misstep and can get in before drain is up if played on the play or with a mox ging you an extra turn of beats.

At the shops suggestion, it does fight porcelain legionaire which I have seen in lists as anti shops SB.

[Phele]

Could also be an sideboard option in some creature centric Bomberman builds I have seen with lots of Trinkets, Mindcensors and Co.

[Troy_Costisick]

Blocks and kills Slash Panther without dying.  With Exalted, it can take down a golem on offense.  Nice little card.

[Guli]

YES YES YES YES YES!!!

This card is a house versus blue in general and is good in all match ups. Fits perfectly in my deck designs with heavy creature count with the concept of 'effect is tempo'.

I don't know what the first strike means at this point but it does seem interesting because it is good against the mirror or aggro decks in general. Most important keyword on the card part is 'noncreature' all the rest is bonus.

Deadly at the hands of an experienced pilot.

[MaximumCDawg]

On his first or second podcast, Steve Menedian noted the success of a white weenie deck, and mentioned that Glowrider would be playable at 2.  Well, here we go.

Will this make GW aggro?  Probably not.  But what I could see happening is a viable white fish deck dedicated to mana denial.  Starting with:

4 Wasteland
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia
3 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Null Rod

That's an awful lot of 0 to 2 mana denial.

[Troy_Costisick]

And having 2 Spell Snares in your deck is looking better all the time!

[Guli]

On his first or second podcast, Steve Menedian noted the success of a white weenie deck, and mentioned that Glowrider would be playable at 2.  Well, here we go.

Will this make GW aggro?  Probably not.  But what I could see happening is a viable white fish deck dedicated to mana denial.  Starting with:

4 Wasteland
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia
3 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Null Rod

That's an awful lot of 0 to 2 mana denial.

-4 Rod + Stony
-3 Thorn + 3 Kataki

[Grand Inquisitor]

I do fear that Shops might use this

Flagstones and Horizon Canopy have great synergy with Crucible and Balance is traditionally a house in shop decks.  Your fears are warranted.

[Shax]

If this card sees the amount of play I expect it too, (which is alot as a staple in White Aggro decks) then this should warp metagames towards Dredge some more. Joy to the Vintage players.

Seriously, did Wizards have a brainfart when printing this card? Go ahead, make Landstill even more of a contender while your at it and throw the Ritual players down the drain some more to sit with the Hermit Druid players. (Gasp!)

[Commandant]

If this card sees the amount of play I expect it too, (which is alot as a staple in White Aggro decks) then this should warp metagames towards Dredge some more. Joy to the Vintage players.

Seriously, did Wizards have a brainfart when printing this card? Go ahead, make Landstill even more of a contender while your at it and throw the Ritual players down the drain some more to sit with the Hermit Druid players. (Gasp!)

Why is this card good for Landstill?

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

I have no intentions of running this in landstill. Not to say someone else couldn't haha

[boggyb]

Holy crapo, haha, how can this card possibly cost 1W? It's better and cheaper than Glowrider, an already good card? Hilarious.

I'm just excited that Vintage is moving to a more combat-focused format, with Snapcaster and then this card. Meaning, it's moving to a place where combat is like, gasp, relevant and integral to the format and how you construct decks! Imagine that.

Did any of you ever see this deck? "White Trash" -- I'm amazed at how little attention it's gotten, given how good it is (play with it and you'll see): http://morphling.de/printview.php?c=1472&d=4 -- this card really puts it over the top.

[Delha]

Holy crapo, haha, how can this card possibly cost 1W? It's better and cheaper than Glowrider, an already good card? Hilarious.

Already good by what measure? Not being sarcastic, I just don't recall hearing of it being in a list since a round of 3-Card-Blind quite a ways back, and that certainly doesn't count.

[Shax]

If this card sees the amount of play I expect it too, (which is alot as a staple in White Aggro decks) then this should warp metagames towards Dredge some more. Joy to the Vintage players.

Seriously, did Wizards have a brainfart when printing this card? Go ahead, make Landstill even more of a contender while your at it and throw the Ritual players down the drain some more to sit with the Hermit Druid players. (Gasp!)

Why is this card good for Landstill?

Sorry to make you think otherwise, but you would never play this card in Landstill anyways. What I meant is that when this card sees play, it will force more Blue decks to have hate for it in the form of Lightning Bolt, Fire//Ice, Dismember etc.. and most of those cards come in Landstill, and Dark Rituals don't like seeing more spheres of any sort that can be used. It will put more of a constriction on Gush decks to rule the format, makes all Aggro decks see more play in the long term so they can avoid the extra cost of the Sphere.

[Onslaught]

Did any of you ever see this deck? "White Trash" -- I'm amazed at how little attention it's gotten, given how good it is (play with it and you'll see): http://morphling.de/printview.php?c=1472&d=4 -- this card really puts it over the top.

When Stony Silence came out, I messed around with a mono white Glowrider deck packing x4 Thorn of Amethyst. If you have Mindcensors, you really want that package of 9 Wasteland/Strip Mine/Ghost Quarter. At the same time, I wanted to try running Ancient Tombs and City of Traitors for the chance of T1 Thorn, T2 Glowrider. If you have the 9 Strip effects, it's kind of hard to play even more colorless lands. So I tried using Moxes, but that of course takes you away from Stony Silence. In various configurations, it was not a horrible deck. It was like playing a bad Workshop deck but with a lot more flexibility.

With this new Thalia, I think any kind of White based prison deck will have to make the same decision. 9 Waste effects vs. Tomb/City, and Moxes vs. Stony Silence. I'm leaning towards Moxes just for the chance at resolving a T1 Thalia. At any rate, I'm excited at the prospect of playing a Thalia/Thorn/Glowrider based deck.

[nineisnoone]

Did any of you ever see this deck? "White Trash" -- I'm amazed at how little attention it's gotten, given how good it is (play with it and you'll see): http://morphling.de/printview.php?c=1472&d=4 -- this card really puts it over the top.

When Stony Silence came out, I messed around with a mono white Glowrider deck packing x4 Thorn of Amethyst. If you have Mindcensors, you really want that package of 9 Wasteland/Strip Mine/Ghost Quarter. At the same time, I wanted to try running Ancient Tombs and City of Traitors for the chance of T1 Thorn, T2 Glowrider. If you have the 9 Strip effects, it's kind of hard to play even more colorless lands. So I tried using Moxes, but that of course takes you away from Stony Silence. In various configurations, it was not a horrible deck. It was like playing a bad Workshop deck but with a lot more flexibility.

With this new Thalia, I think any kind of White based prison deck will have to make the same decision. 9 Waste effects vs. Tomb/City, and Moxes vs. Stony Silence. I'm leaning towards Moxes just for the chance at resolving a T1 Thalia. At any rate, I'm excited at the prospect of playing a Thalia/Thorn/Glowrider based deck.

imo, you acceleration should be on-color moxen and ESH/SSG.

I'm not sure how big I am on the no-search/ghost quarter combination. I haven't really messed around with it too much, though I do sometimes use ghost quarter as a SB card, so if you are running them anyways, it might not be that bad. But I'd rather run other things main deck.

i do think this card is really good, but honestly I do not think it will make that huge of a difference in GW. Mainly because this is an effect that you want in multiples, and this card is legendary so you can only have one out at a time. meaning while you might have 8 spheres, your multiples are somewhat dead (not completely as they can always be countered/killed/etc). it's reminds me of kataki, a very powerful effect, but the kind of effect where you'd want multiples on it, but it is a legendary creature so you can't. and similarly, i see them both as not dominating GW strategies, but being very powerful and viable alternatives.

[Guli]

It would be interesting to see another bear with a powerful effect like Thalia that has first strike that does not truly hurt Workshop or Aggro. This way those first strike abilities would have a significant impact. Having 4 power with first strike on the board does hold the ground against Lodestone Golem.

Maybe a  Samurai of the Pale Curtain a like with first strike instead of bushido?

[vaughnbros]

Did any of you ever see this deck? "White Trash" -- I'm amazed at how little attention it's gotten, given how good it is (play with it and you'll see): http://morphling.de/printview.php?c=1472&d=4 -- this card really puts it over the top.

When Stony Silence came out, I messed around with a mono white Glowrider deck packing x4 Thorn of Amethyst. If you have Mindcensors, you really want that package of 9 Wasteland/Strip Mine/Ghost Quarter. At the same time, I wanted to try running Ancient Tombs and City of Traitors for the chance of T1 Thorn, T2 Glowrider. If you have the 9 Strip effects, it's kind of hard to play even more colorless lands. So I tried using Moxes, but that of course takes you away from Stony Silence. In various configurations, it was not a horrible deck. It was like playing a bad Workshop deck but with a lot more flexibility.

With this new Thalia, I think any kind of White based prison deck will have to make the same decision. 9 Waste effects vs. Tomb/City, and Moxes vs. Stony Silence. I'm leaning towards Moxes just for the chance at resolving a T1 Thalia. At any rate, I'm excited at the prospect of playing a Thalia/Thorn/Glowrider based deck.

I helped build a deck with my friend a few months back that is a long those lines.  It can be found at http://morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=1472 called white trash.  Although this card would be a good addition to it the fact that its legendary makes it significantly worse.

[Stormanimagus]

I think the best place to squeeze this guy in is some sort of white weenie. I'd try something like this to abuse Thalia.


White Weenie

Land (19):
10 Plains
4 Wasteland
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Strip Mine

Artifacts (9):
4 Aether Vial
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Pearl
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Sword Of Fire And Ice
1 Batterskull

Creatures (29):
4 Student Of Warfare
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Kataki, War’s Wage
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 True Believer
4 Leonin Relic-Warder
4 Mirran Crusader
2 Aven Mindcensor

Instants (3):
3 Swords to Plowshares

SB
3 Stony Silence
4 Leyline Of Sanctity
4 Tormod’s Crypt
4 Ravenous Trap

[Ten-Ten]

she seems cool. 
Personaly though, I see her going in a deck starting like so:

4 Thalia
3 Ethersworn canonist
3 Grand abolisher
4 Tidehollow sculler
4 leonin arbiter
4 qasali pridemage
4 Noble hierarch
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 phyrexian revoker
1 Fiend hunter
2 Gideon's lawkeeper
1 leonin relic warder
2 porcelain legionnaire
2 Mesmeric fiend
2 Dark confidant
1 black lotus

4 wasteland
2 Ghost quarter
1 stripmine
6 fetchland
3 savannah
1 Scrubland
1 swamp
1 plains
.
.
.
or whatever. Haven't worked out the kinks,  Either way I can't wait. 

[Stormanimagus]

she seems cool. 
Personaly though, I see her going in a deck starting like so:

4 Thalia
3 Ethersworn canonist
3 Grand abolisher
4 Tidehollow sculler
4 leonin arbiter
4 qasali pridemage
4 Noble hierarch
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 phyrexian revoker
1 Fiend hunter
2 Gideon's lawkeeper
1 leonin relic warder
2 porcelain legionnaire
2 Mesmeric fiend
2 Dark confidant
1 black lotus

4 wasteland
2 Ghost quarter
1 stripmine
6 fetchland
3 savannah
1 Scrubland
1 swamp
1 plains
.
.
.
or whatever. Haven't worked out the kinks,  Either way I can't wait. 

You're running Noble just for 2 Gaddock Teeg and the pridemage and then randomly 2 Confidant and 2 Mesmeric Fiend? I'm sorry, but your list seems incredibly half-baked and just plain awful. Think before you post please. I've actually tested my list and found it to be extremely effective vs. Shops and other more aggroish blue decks (hint hint, Delver.dec). Your deck just seems like some card you threw together that are either bad or lack synergy of any kind. Gideon's Lawkeeper is not a particularly good card. I mean, seriously, why run green at all if you are not going to run Goyfs? You can get the Seal of Cleansing on legs if you run 4 Relic-Warder instead of just 1 and then you've basically replaced Pridemage just fine. I really think my deck will do everything your deck is trying to do and more and that your deck will just suffer from random horrible draws and mana color screw far too often to be a contender. Like can you explain half the cards in your deck. WTF is Grand Abolisher doing in there at all? He seems just quite bad to me. sure he protects your guys, but he's really slow to do that. He doesn't stop your opponent from removing your dudes on his own turn either. He just seems like a whole lot of poop to me and I have no idea why you're running him. Could you offer a little explanation on some of your choices for this deck instead of just pooping it out with none? I realize that is what I sort of did, but I'll follow with some testing results and hard explanations shortly. for now I'll tell you that my deck works because it has 8 solid turn 1 plays and a bunch of very good turn 2 plays that lead to soft/hard locks a large % of the time (specifically Arbiter + Ghost Quarter or Crusader + Mystic for the Aggro approach).

-Storm

[Guli]

I think the best place to squeeze this guy in is some sort of white weenie. I'd try something like this to abuse Thalia.

White Weenie
Land (19):
10 Plains
4 Wasteland
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Strip Mine

Artifacts (9):
4 Aether Vial
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Pearl
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Sword Of Fire And Ice
1 Batterskull

Creatures (29):
4 Student Of Warfare
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Kataki, War’s Wage
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 True Believer
4 Leonin Relic-Warder
4 Mirran Crusader
2 Aven Mindcensor

Instants (3):
3 Swords to Plowshares

SB
3 Stony Silence
4 Leyline Of Sanctity
4 Tormod’s Crypt
4 Ravenous Trap

I just want to comment that this is a very hasty attempt. I started my design too, but I would not dare to post a list right now because Thalia needs patience, testing, tuning

I like Mirran Crusader for some reason. Or at least an additional first striker or double striker to control the combat damage step with your bears. I was thinking though, maybe it would be more interesting to play with crusade effects. There is a  crusade available that works for your own white bears I think. It does give more clock and makes it harder for the opponent to effectively use Fire/Ice.

[Stormanimagus]

You are referring to Honor the Pure I believe. If Honor the Pure made it into the deck it would probably be for Stoneforge + Equipment and would that really be better than Equipment + Stoneforge? I feel that equipment forces the opponent to consider artifact hate and their artifact hate will just be awful against you as most of your deck ignores it.

-Storm

[Guli]

You are referring to Honor the Pure I believe. If Honor the Pure made it into the deck it would probably be for Stoneforge + Equipment and would that really be better than Equipment + Stoneforge? I feel that equipment forces the opponent to consider artifact hate and their artifact hate will just be awful against you as most of your deck ignores it.

-Storm

Yes but you should run Stony Silence main deck

[Stormanimagus]

You are referring to Honor the Pure I believe. If Honor the Pure made it into the deck it would probably be for Stoneforge + Equipment and would that really be better than Equipment + Stoneforge? I feel that equipment forces the opponent to consider artifact hate and their artifact hate will just be awful against you as most of your deck ignores it.

-Storm

Yes but you should run Stony Silence main deck

I don't think Stony Silence is the auto-include you think it is. I am very torn on this issue, but I am not sure Silence belongs anywhere in the deck any more as I really think its role will most often be aggro and Silence is not an aggro card. I also think you now lose to Shops if you don't run Vial over Silence. I'll have to think about this further, but I think the verdict is still in question regarding Stony.

-Storm

[serracollector]

If you don't run stony silence your straight up lose to turn 1 metalworker or Kuldotha Forgemaster.  Not to mention TV/Key.  and Vial gets nailed by MM.