Womba
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2011 Vintage World Champion
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« on: January 17, 2012, 12:12:52 am » |
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 Dredge Haters have a new card....Enjoy!!! Edit: This also stops Oath and Tinker....Looks like shops found its new best friend.... |
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« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 12:16:05 am by Womba »
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Oderint Dum Metuant
The Best Dredge player in the world?!?! JAKE GANS!!!!
Team East Coast Wins
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urweak
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« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2012, 12:16:55 am » |
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Dont forget about Yawqmoth's Will.
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Smmenen
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« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2012, 12:25:06 am » |
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The card that changes Vintage forever. Unreal.
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Bibendum
Basic User
Posts: 351
Majority rule, don't work in mental institutions
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« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2012, 12:27:15 am » |
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Wow, I love being a shop pilot right now...
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The Going Get Tough, The Tough Get Debt
Don't Pay Attention, Pay The Rent
Next Of Kins Pay For Your Sins
A Little Faith Should Keep Us Safe
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Womba
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Posts: 291
2011 Vintage World Champion
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« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2012, 12:28:17 am » |
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The card that changes Vintage forever. Unreal.
Agreed. I almost feel like this might be a dream when I wake up tomorrow. I can't believe what I am reading.... |
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Oderint Dum Metuant
The Best Dredge player in the world?!?! JAKE GANS!!!!
Team East Coast Wins
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Yukon Cornelius
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« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2012, 12:31:05 am » |
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Got 99 problems but a graveyard aint one. Just wow! Dredge, Oath, Tinker/Blightsteel, Yawg Will, this card is a house!
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"Guys a bamf, he uses a pick ax and fights yetis!"
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Stormanimagus
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« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2012, 12:31:55 am » |
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The card that changes Vintage forever. Unreal.
Agreed. I almost feel like this might be a dream when I wake up tomorrow. I can't believe what I am reading.... Non-Black fish just got a new friend as well |
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"To light a candle is to cast a shadow. . ."
—Ursula K. Leguin
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serracollector
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« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2012, 12:39:12 am » |
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Stops snapcaster and ancient grudge as well, and does not affect crucible, but does affect Kuldotha if searching for creatures. Powerhouse for MUD and fish, sick.
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B/R discussions are not allowed outside of Vintage Issues, and that includes signatures.
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Bibendum
Basic User
Posts: 351
Majority rule, don't work in mental institutions
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« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2012, 12:42:57 am » |
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Cheap way to shut off yawg will... more daggers for the combo player
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The Going Get Tough, The Tough Get Debt
Don't Pay Attention, Pay The Rent
Next Of Kins Pay For Your Sins
A Little Faith Should Keep Us Safe
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LotusHead
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Posts: 2785
Team Vacaville
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« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2012, 12:44:32 am » |
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It shuts of Welders welding in fatties.
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Iron_Chef
Goddamned Champion
Adepts
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Posts: 647
Managing Partner, Top Deck Games and CardTitan.com
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« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2012, 12:44:35 am » |
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This card is the card that will have the biggest impact on Vintage in the last 5 years. I think it's insane.
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"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." -Mark Twain
"Originality is the fine art of remembering what you hear but forgetting where you heard it." -Laurence J. Peter
I'm that guy who runs that thing.
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nightmare1016
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« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2012, 12:45:13 am » |
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Shop players, we are a community unto ourselves. We are not prevalent, but we are present. Work with each other, test, discuss theory, listen, learn. And win. - Prospero Team Budget (Philippines) Cockatrice Handle: Blacksky11 |
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boggyb
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« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2012, 12:52:41 am » |
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Yeah Serra collector and I were just talking about this on Cockatrice. I think the question is, what decks are left? Just:
MUD, Stax (sans kuldotha)
Fish-y stuff
Standstill
Dark Times
Goblins
Bomberman
Doomsday
All the popular big blue decks are killed by this. It's not even fucking legendary!
Will it be restricted immediately?
edit: Thinking more on it, pretty sure big blue decks should be fine so long as they pack more artifact hate/ET to deal with multiples. The real victims here are Oath and Dredge.
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« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 01:50:34 am by boggyb »
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Bibendum
Basic User
Posts: 351
Majority rule, don't work in mental institutions
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« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2012, 12:54:00 am » |
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I think thats going a little far. All these Goyf Gush decks and things like Tezz are fine.
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The Going Get Tough, The Tough Get Debt
Don't Pay Attention, Pay The Rent
Next Of Kins Pay For Your Sins
A Little Faith Should Keep Us Safe
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boggyb
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« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2012, 12:55:26 am » |
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You're right, Goyf/Delver decks and Tezz are still fine.
But yeah this fixes their biggest "mistakes" as many people consider them, Tinker, Yawg, and Dredge. Wonder if they even had Vintage in mind, or were just thinking of Snapcaster et al, haha
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Onslaught
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Posts: 402
this is me reading your posts
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« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2012, 12:56:25 am » |
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Yukon Cornelius
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« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2012, 12:58:54 am » |
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Yea the Goyf Gush decks should be largely unaffected. As for Dark Times, it's not very graveyard based other than Yawg Will, and you aren't casting creatures from your deck so it's freaking amazing for Dark Times! I can't speak for the other decks you listed but there's my two cents about a deck I know well.
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"Guys a bamf, he uses a pick ax and fights yetis!"
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vaughnbros
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« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2012, 12:59:19 am » |
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people just have to play more missteps and artifact hate i dont see it warping things dramatically just giving a weapon to fair decks
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Bibendum
Basic User
Posts: 351
Majority rule, don't work in mental institutions
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« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2012, 01:01:48 am » |
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Most decks that can support it are running 3-4 missteps already, can't really run more then that.
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The Going Get Tough, The Tough Get Debt
Don't Pay Attention, Pay The Rent
Next Of Kins Pay For Your Sins
A Little Faith Should Keep Us Safe
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Yukon Cornelius
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« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2012, 01:04:00 am » |
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people just have to play more missteps and artifact hate i dont see it warping things dramatically just giving a weapon to fair decks
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think a single card that changes the hate that every deck will have to run is influential at the VERY least. |
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"Guys a bamf, he uses a pick ax and fights yetis!"
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vaughnbros
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« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2012, 01:07:32 am » |
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people just have to play more missteps and artifact hate i dont see it warping things dramatically just giving a weapon to fair decks
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think a single card that changes the hate that every deck will have to run is influential at the VERY least. i didnt say it wouldnt be influential. im just saying i dont think it will invalidate a decks playability or anything |
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Smmenen
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« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2012, 01:09:16 am » |
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people just have to play more missteps and artifact hate i dont see it warping things dramatically just giving a weapon to fair decks
That's exactly what it does. And that is a dramatic change. It's the biggest printing of its kind since Chalice of The Void. |
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boggyb
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« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2012, 01:16:29 am » |
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Interesting -- will probably slow down Dredge lists a lot. So, does that mean you can afford to run less Dredge hate, but then will just have to turn around and up your Grafdigger hate?
edit: Interesting choice between this and Leyline. Can get both out Turn 1 no problem. This one can actually be recast immediately if they chain of vapor it, unlike leyline; but leyline kills their graveyard in case they do destroy it. They can still dredge with it, though note Narcomoeba, Bloodghast, and all the rest of their cards are turned off from this, so they'd just have sit on their graveyard.
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« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 01:21:53 am by boggyb »
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nightmare1016
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« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2012, 01:21:52 am » |
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You still can't afford to run fewer Dredge hate cards -- Dredge still can explode postboarding if you're ill-equipped to deal with it.
This card would most likely replace Tormod's Crypt or Relic of Progenitus in the SB slots.
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Shop players, we are a community unto ourselves. We are not prevalent, but we are present. Work with each other, test, discuss theory, listen, learn. And win. - Prospero Team Budget (Philippines) Cockatrice Handle: Blacksky11 |
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boggyb
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« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2012, 01:24:23 am » |
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I'm saying that if Dredge slows down considerably from this, since shops (and other decks of course) have incentive to run many of them maindeck to shut off numerous other strategies as well, will that mean game 1 victories vs Dredge will become easier, and thus that less Dredge sb hate will be necessary?
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nightmare1016
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« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2012, 01:30:35 am » |
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Quick question -- does this stop Bridge from Below from producing tokens as well?
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Shop players, we are a community unto ourselves. We are not prevalent, but we are present. Work with each other, test, discuss theory, listen, learn. And win. - Prospero Team Budget (Philippines) Cockatrice Handle: Blacksky11 |
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Lemnear
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« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2012, 01:40:11 am » |
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Quick question -- does this stop Bridge from Below from producing tokens as well?
Doubt it but it stops Narcomoeba which is Even more important ... Dredge needs to hardcast creatures to get benefit out of Bridge. Stops NO, GSZ and reanimator in Legacy too. A Save bet to get a playset asap |
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Member of Team RS (Germany)
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bactgudz
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« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2012, 01:41:39 am » |
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Quick question -- does this stop Bridge from Below from producing tokens as well?
Not directly but they have a lot harder time making tokens when they can't even begin to cast therapy or dread return This card seems stupid it's not even really a hate card Stopping will tinker dread return snapcaster narco therapy grudge bloodghast ichorid and oath is more denial than hate I can't believe they are actually printing this |
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nataz
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Posts: 1535
Mighty Mighty Maine-Tone
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« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2012, 01:43:54 am » |
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The card that changes Vintage forever. Unreal.
wow It's not the whole anti dredge thing that is amazing. There were already lots of ways to shut dredge down. In fact a lot of them cost zero mana. It's the no yawg will/tinker/oath/snapcaster that is totally game changing. Think about a gush deck w/o yawgmoth's will, or any number of decks that lean on tinker -> bsc. Let alone the entire spectrum of Oath decks. There are lots of 1cc (or less) answers to will/tinker/oath/dredge, but never before all in one card. This is crazy. |
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« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 01:46:31 am by nataz »
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I will write Peace on your wings
and you will fly around the world
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The Atog Lord
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« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2012, 01:52:28 am » |
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This is an extremely powerful card. Wow.
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The Academy: If I'm not dead, I have a Dragonlord Dromoka coming in 4 turns
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