Proliferate Inquiry

[waffles]

has anyone done any research on Proliferate pertaining to vintage/legacy? If so what were the conlusions of that research?

I did some digging around and found the pyromancer's ascension list, circa 2010, not sure if any other research has been done since then. I found the interaction between the ascension and steady progress to be interesting. I wondered if the proliferate mechanic could be pushed futher than that. Looking what cards were availble i found Contagion clasp/engine, Core prowler, Throne of Geth, Tezz's Gambit good in theory . The clasp/engine synergize well with welder, even more so with the prowler. The upside of this is more counters on jace or whatever needs more counters, although how useful this is in practice im not sure, i may just have my head in the clouds.

Speaking of clouds, thought of cute combo for this intruder alarm+ welder, two artifact creatures like Solemn Simulacrum+ Core Prowler nets land thinning and card draw with proliferate infinitely.

[Delha]

...intruder alarm+ welder, two artifact creatures like Solemn Simulacrum+ Core Prowler nets land thinning and card draw with proliferate infinitely.

And including Pierce Strider and kills them straight up. Infinite welds (so long as you're using artifact creatures) is so open ended that winning is almost incidental from there.

[waffles]

...intruder alarm+ welder, two artifact creatures like Solemn Simulacrum+ Core Prowler nets land thinning and card draw with proliferate infinitely.

And including Pierce Strider and kills them straight up. Infinite welds (so long as you're using artifact creatures) is so open ended that winning is almost incidental from there.

Do you mean to tell me that i found something that isnt convoluted, underpowered and has a greater chance of actually winning?

[Delha]

...intruder alarm+ welder, two artifact creatures like Solemn Simulacrum+ Core Prowler nets land thinning and card draw with proliferate infinitely.

And including Pierce Strider and kills them straight up. Infinite welds (so long as you're using artifact creatures) is so open ended that winning is almost incidental from there.

Do you mean to tell me that i found something that isnt convoluted, underpowered and has a greater chance of actually winning?

Certainly. Intruder Alarm has a long proud tradition of spawning broken ass combo decks. Pairing welder with Jens and the like is also independently good. Throwing them all together qualifies in my book as pretty straightforward (relative to say, DOTH combo), and indisputably powerful.

I suppose this means you're no longer willing to work on it? :p

[waffles]

...intruder alarm+ welder, two artifact creatures like Solemn Simulacrum+ Core Prowler nets land thinning and card draw with proliferate infinitely.

And including Pierce Strider and kills them straight up. Infinite welds (so long as you're using artifact creatures) is so open ended that winning is almost incidental from there.

Do you mean to tell me that i found something that isnt convoluted, underpowered and has a greater chance of actually winning?

Certainly. Intruder Alarm has a long proud tradition of spawning broken ass combo decks. Pairing welder with Jens and the like is also independently good. Throwing them all together qualifies in my book as pretty straightforward (relative to say, DOTH combo), and indisputably powerful.

I suppose this means you're no longer willing to work on it? :p

It's not that, just getting over the fact that we've stepped into the twilight zone. As nothing ive propsed here has ever been like that, hehe. Yay for thinking of something that may have an impact on the format.

Looking at what is possible for this deck in the terms of what the infinte cycles are:

Draw: Runed Servitor, Solemn Simulacrum

Land Destruction: Sundering Titan

Mana: Su-chi, Cathodion, Myr Moonvessel

Landfall: Hedron Scrabbler

Counters: Coretapper

Poliferate: Core Prowler

Land tutor: Pilgrim's Eye, Solemn Simulacrum

Life loss/damage: Perilous Myr, Parasitic Strix, Pierce Strider, Sludge Strider, Geistcatcher's Rig

Tokens: Myr Sire, Precursor Golem, Wurmcoil Engine

-1/-1 Counters: Lockjaw Snapper, Pith Driller, Necropede,

+1/+1: Any modular creature

Fog: Auriok Replica, Ethersworn Shieldmage

Artifact Retreval: Junk Diver, Sanctum Gargoyle, Sharuum the Hegemon, Myr Retriever

Artifact Tutor: Sphinx Summoner, Faerie Mechanist,

Top Deck Malipualtion: Architects of Will,

Tap/Untap: Esper Sojourners, Dross Scorpion

Power/Toughness: Glaze Fiend, Glassdust Hulk

Creature Removal: Duplicant

Gy Removal: Mirror Golem, Heap Doll

Life Reset: Magister Sphinx,

Life Gain: Peace Strider, Anodet Lurker, Filigree Angel

Turn skip: Eater of Days

Misc: Summoner's Egg, Clone Shell

Yes some of the interactions are not optimal, and i may have missed a few interactions, but that is what possible with infinte welds. Now the hard part, figuring out what the deck does.

[Delha]

Not trying to rain on your parade, but for the sake of clarity, I'd recommend against expecting this to shake up the entire meta. I honestly do believe that built out properly, this could make for a solid T2-T3 list, but hoenstly, I don't expect Dredge to be displaced as THE competitive grave-based strategy anytime soon. Just want to set reasonable expectations.

From there, my recommendation is to try building this out with cheap, utilitarian artifacts (not necessarily all creatures) that play well with Welder. You want to make sure the deck still does something when you don't have the combo out.

Intuition helps dig up Intruder Alarm and grabbing your wincons after that.

Mox Monkey should be included to kill the Cages people are going to be running, and obviously plays well with Welder.

Finally, you'll also want answers (in the side, at minimum) for the Dredge hate that'll naturally come in against you.

[waffles]

Not trying to rain on your parade, but for the sake of clarity, I'd recommend against expecting this to shake up the entire meta. I honestly do believe that built out properly, this could make for a solid T2-T3 list, but hoenstly, I don't expect Dredge to be displaced as THE competitive grave-based strategy anytime soon. Just want to set reasonable expectations.

From there, my recommendation is to try building this out with cheap, utilitarian artifacts (not necessarily all creatures) that play well with Welder. You want to make sure the deck still does something when you don't have the combo out.

Intuition helps dig up Intruder Alarm and grabbing your wincons after that.

Mox Monkey should be included to kill the Cages people are going to be running, and obviously plays well with Welder.

Finally, you'll also want answers (in the side, at minimum) for the Dredge hate that'll naturally come in against you.

I did said impact i wasn't implying that this idea would shake the foundations of Tier 1 decks and cause them to crumble. My comentary was about finally thinking of something that could be concidered tier, a grand achievement for me, for that i am quite happy.

As for the basis of the deck, i was looking at a few possiblities in the case i am not under alarm/welder, something like just artifact aggro, like slash panther, ravager or doing something with omen machine/top deck malipluation would work. but that all seems aniemic.  As for the gy hate the best answer in colorless for enchantment hate for leyline of the void, is Sylvok Replica. outside of adding another color beyond the UR base the options are quite limited. In blue stern proctor, which seems quite weak

[Delha]

As for the basis of the deck, i was looking at a few possiblities in the case i am not under alarm/welder, something like just artifact aggro, like slash panther, ravager or doing something with omen machine/top deck malipluation would work. but that all seems aniemic.  As for the gy hate the best answer in colorless for enchantment hate for leyline of the void, is Sylvok Replica. outside of adding another color beyond the UR base the options are quite limited. In blue stern proctor, which seems quite weak

Let's keep this discussion to the other thread you started.

[waffles]

As for the basis of the deck, i was looking at a few possiblities in the case i am not under alarm/welder, something like just artifact aggro, like slash panther, ravager or doing something with omen machine/top deck malipluation would work. but that all seems aniemic.  As for the gy hate the best answer in colorless for enchantment hate for leyline of the void, is Sylvok Replica. outside of adding another color beyond the UR base the options are quite limited. In blue stern proctor, which seems quite weak

Let's keep this discussion to the other thread you started.

I didnt start that thread, my idea yes, but not my thread.

Futher Disscusion of this deck idea is found here: http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=43865.0

[Delha]

I didnt start that thread, my idea yes, but not my thread.

Awkward... Sorry 'bout that.