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Author Topic: Reconnaissance  (Read 5758 times)
Guli
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« on: May 20, 2012, 04:53:22 am »



I have seen a Knight of the Reliquary get untapped by Maze of Ith after it dealt damage. The idea was to attack with Knight and still use her ability getting maximum value out of her. Was this play correct?

If it was... it practically means Maze of Ith gives vigilance to 1 creature.

My questions then is, doesn't Reconnaissance read 'all creatures you control have vigilance. And doesn't this give you a huge tactical advantage in combat, enabling you to swing with all creatures every turn and activate Reconnaissance for those who are blocked and also for those who are unblocked after damage. This would also mean that your creatures are virtually indestructible.

So I am sure something must be wrong in my interpretation of the rules here... for  {W} it seems very broken otherwise...
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serracollector
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« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2012, 05:28:31 am »

I believe to be able to remove something from combat it has to be done during the combat step before damage.  That was always my understanding of Maze/Recon.  But with new rules I am not 100% sure.
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msg67183
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« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2012, 07:18:19 am »

The creatures neither deal damage OR recieve damage. So how is this vigilance?
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ed0
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« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2012, 08:45:39 am »

Gulis question is aimed at the timing in the "Combat Phase".
In the "Combat Damage Step", after all the damage has been dealt players may cast spells or activate abilities.
Creatures are removed from combat only at the end of the "End of Combat Step" and according to  
Quote from: 508.1j
Each chosen creature still controlled by the active player becomes an attacking creature. It remains an attacking creature until it’s removed from combat or the combat phase ends, whichever comes first.
which would mean that even after the damage is dealt the creature is still considered an attacking creature, thus could be untapped with Reconnaissance.

The question is whether the damage is undone by this action, basically rolling back the whole damage calculation. I couldn't find any indication why it should do so.
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Daenyth
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« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2012, 09:16:50 am »

The oracle wording mentions nothing about damage, it just removes it from combat. The damage would not be reversed.
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Guli
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« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2012, 10:39:17 am »

So this means that Reconnaissance can be used as a tactical weapon in the combat phase. It would make having more numbers matter. You could just swing with everything and untap everything. The ones that would be destroyed by blockers, you untap before the damage step (which means they can not be destroyed by creatures), and those we successfully dealt damage, well we untap them too to means they have some sort of vigilance.

Sounds like a very interesting card for just 1 mana then...
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AmbivalentDuck
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« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2012, 10:46:11 am »

And...added to my cube.
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« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2012, 08:59:05 pm »

Wow!  Guli, if this works, you just made a killer find.  I think this is not better than scryb ranger in most cases, but in the mirror, this can really help fish by breaking stalemates.
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maatn
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« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2012, 01:40:50 am »

I believe to be able to remove something from combat it has to be done during the combat step before damage.  That was always my understanding of Maze/Recon.  But with new rules I am not 100% sure.
I think this is correct, if I look at
Rule 510.2. Second, all combat damage that's been assigned is dealt simultaneously. This turn-based action doesn't use the stack. No player has the chance to cast spells or activate abilities between the time combat damage is assigned and the time it's dealt. This is a change from previous rules.

Edit:
And then I found this thread in the WotC rules forum: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/26505005/Reconnaissance_questions
Reconnaissance can be used for pseudo-vigilance.
As was already said by ed0.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2012, 02:16:49 am by maatn » Logged
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