2 MUD Styles

[ipconfig]

Hallo All,

As i studied the latest Decklists i noticed 2 different "archtypes".

1.
4 Metallworker
1 Manavault
17 mana lands without mishras factory
More than 4 silverbullets

2.
19 lands including mishras factory
Up to 4 silverbullets and less
3 to 4 phyrexian metamorph
3 phyrexian revoker


Since i want to play a tourney within next 2 weeks with unknown meta.
I'd like to know the difference between the both playstyles.
I last played last year... i know the variant 1, but don't see the advantage of variant 2?

What happened to typical metagame?
Is Delver a vial decktype?
When is variant 1 or 2 the deck to go for?

[LotusHead]

There are way more than 2 MUD Styles. Trust me.
Way more than 2 Metalworker Shop decks.
Way more than 2 Non-metalworker MUD decks.

But if you DO include Metalworker, you accept the possibility that it will just suck in that tourney (get bolted, dazed, countered, claimed, etc).

But if it sticks, you are on turn 4 or 5 or 8 and they are on turn 2 at most.

There is some variance there.

If you are NOT running Metalworker, then Phyrexian Revoker is still pretty good against just about everything (Naming Sol Ring, Planeswalkers, Time Vault/Voltaic Key, etc).

Any shop deck not running Phyrexian Metamorph is clearly doing it wrong.

I haven't tested the current shop builds, as I only have usually 2 shop decks built at any given time, but running Trading Post gives you a lot of advantages. (hence my PostalWorkers thread), but this is for small unknown meta (and 90% of them know exactly what I will be running).

But you have to tell us if you want to be a MUD Agro deck (ie, no Smokestacks, more beaters) or Mud Stax (prison lockdown).

I like my Smokestacks and build accordingly, other people like Slash Panthers/Revokers/Lodestone Golems beating down while opponent thwarted by Thorns, Spheres, Tanglewires, Wastes, etc.

All shop decks run Mana Vault. Always.

[A.-1.]

What happened to typical metagame?
Is Delver a vial decktype?
When is variant 1 or 2 the deck to go for?

I would estimate a 'typical' metagame would consist of 25-35% blue-based aggro [Noble Fish & RUG Delver (which answers your 2nd question)], 20-30% Workshops, 15-25% blue-based control (anything from Landstill to Strix Control to Bomberman), 5-10% Dredge, 5-10% Oath, and 5-10% rogue/jank decks.

I don't want to assume, but is variant one referring to what is commonly called Metalworker MUD, which runs Kuldotha Forgemaster? And is variant two referring to what we in the United States would call Martello Shops, which also runs Forgemaster?

Personally, I believe that Martello is the far superior deck right now. There are many others that would attest to its power as well. It has consistently performed well, at least here in the Northeast United States, over the past several months. Martello would be a great choice for an unknown meta.

All shop decks run Mana Vault. Always.

I haven't run Mana Vault in Espresso or Martello this year. Vault is definitely NOT an auto-include in every Shop deck.

[ipconfig]

Given the fact that those delver decks rises in number And fish becomes more and more played,
I'd like to stick with a more aggrovariant of mud...
I can see a decklist with 4 sphere of resistance and only 3 thorns...

Do you see it the same?
Aggromud over prisonmud if the meta consists of 40% fish?

[Tha Gunslinga]

I don't play Mana Vault unless I'm playing Smokestack or a very aggro build, and even then I don't always run it.  I try to minimize my 1-costers because I Chalice at 1 so much.

[Samoht]

Mental Misstep becoming live is also an issue, especially if you're counting on the Mana Vault in the opener.

[ipconfig]

what are typical targets for phyrexian revoker?

what do you name against an unknown deck?
what are targets against:
- controll (jace)
- noble fish (the 2/2 exalted guy who can destroy artifacts)
- Combo ???
- delver ???
- dredge ???

when do you sideboard those cards out? never?

[A.-1.]

Cards with activated abilities. If you seriously don't know what to name with Revoker, I'm not sure the card is right for you. You need to know other decks/cards in the format to get the most out of the card. It would be like playing Noble Fish and not knowing what to name with Meddling Mage. You won't get the full value of the card if you're only naming cards reactively. Instead of me or someone else listing all of the common targets, it would be much more beneficial to familiarize yourself with the other decks in the format.

[Tha Gunslinga]

Jace and Time Vault are basically what people name 90% of the time.

[vaughnbros]

Jace and Time Vault are basically what people name 90% of the time.

Mana sources?  I'd say I've named black lotus more than probably anything.

[madmanmike25]

Since I play a more controllish version of MUD, I usually end up negating moxen with my Revokers.  I always sideboard them out when I'm playing against Oath.

[serracollector]

That seems a little silly as most Oath builds are running Grislebrand now.

Revokers usually name:
Lotus/Moxen/Sol/Crypt/Vault
Diving Top
Jace
Time vault
Noble Hierarch
Welder
Qausali pridemage
Grislebrand
Tezz, tezz 2.0
Vampire Hexmage
Engineered Explosives
Auriok Salvagers

I think that about covers it for "most" metagames atm.

[madmanmike25]

Doesnt matter that much to me, but I dont like casting Revoker and them getting a "vanilla" 7/7 flying lifelinker.  By all means help them trigger Oath if you want.

[serracollector]

Then you just cast duplicant, wurmcoil, smokestack, tanglwire, or steel hellkite, and laugh at thier vanilla 7/7? 

[madmanmike25]

Then you just assume those cards are in your hand when you need them, and you also assume they won't be countered.  The problem I see is that when you take into account Mana Crypt and Ancient Tombs, sometimes the 7/7 hitting two times is game.  The point I was trying to address is that I don't want a 2/1 creature in the Oath matchup even though he is not a dead card, I get that part.  FYI I run Revokers main, and will continue to sb them out in the Oath matchup.  Believe it or not, Griselbrand isn't the only Oath creature. 

[Samoht]

Then you just assume those cards are in your hand when you need them, and you also assume they won't be countered.  The problem I see is that when you take into account Mana Crypt and Ancient Tombs, sometimes the 7/7 hitting two times is game.  The point I was trying to address is that I don't want a 2/1 creature in the Oath matchup even though he is not a dead card, I get that part.  FYI I run Revokers main, and will continue to sb them out in the Oath matchup.  Believe it or not, Griselbrand isn't the only Oath creature. 

I was with you until the last sentence. Griselbrand is the only Oath creature, but boarding out Revoker is 100% right.

Also, Revoker --> Lotus is again the most often correct play as the opponent will need it to get through the Sphere effects to get back in the game.

[XxtSundaybxX]

When my opponent names cards like Jace or timevault with revoker, im generally pretty happy about that because then i just shift to a different game plan. Unless of course jace is already out or i have key vault assembled or atleast in my hand, then its frowntown. However I find it pretty frustrating when they name the mox that i have in play because its effectively another sphere. I have only experienced my opponents naming lotus if they have no other logical immediate targets(mox,jace,KV,crypt etc) if none of those are out it seems obvious that lotus would be the most helpful to climb out of a sphere lock.

[Tha Gunslinga]

Mana sources?  I'd say I've named black lotus more than probably anything.

Good point, had a brain fart and forgot you could name Moxen and such.  I think I probably name Moxen more than anything, but it's been a while since I've played a Revoker.

[gkraigher]

You name in play moxen with phyrexian revoker 80% of the time.  Later in the game, you might do it for griselbrand, jace, time vault, tezz, kuthoda forgemaster, etc.  But in the first 3 turns you are trying to deny their mana, and revoker on mox does that as effect as anything.  

I don't see any reason whatsoever to board out phyrexian revoker.  Even against dredge you can name fatestitcher and it blocks and dies to kill bridge easily. 

[Samoht]

You name in play moxen with phyrexian revoker 80% of the time.  Later in the game, you might do it for griselbrand, jace, time vault, tezz, kuthoda forgemaster, etc.  But in the first 3 turns you are trying to deny their mana, and revoker on mox does that as effect as anything.  

I don't see any reason whatsoever to board out phyrexian revoker.  Even against dredge you can name fatestitcher and it blocks and dies to kill bridge easily. 

Activating opposing Oath of Druids is a great reason to board it out. Even if you name Griselbrand, they can easily win by attacking for 7 and winning the race over and over.

[Will]

This thread has made me really interested in how other people are sideboarding with their Workshop decks...

[ipconfig]

what Do you typically sb out against dredge?

what do you mulligan for?
e.g. you draw a 7 cardhand With 1 hatecard but no pressure...
Do you keep?

[Will]

what Do you typically sb out against dredge?

what do you mulligan for?
e.g. you draw a 7 cardhand With 1 hatecard but no pressure...
Do you keep?

Tangle Wire, Smokestack and Mana Crypt.  It depends on the list that you're running and what version of dredge you are facing but give me a list and I could tell you how to sideboard it vs dredge.

You mulligan for hate pieces and waste effects. Again I need to know what exactly is in your deck and hand.

[A.-1.]

This thread has made me really interested in how other people are sideboarding with their Workshop decks...

QFT. That's why I was really hoping people would refrain from answering the "What are typical targets for Phyrexian Revoker?" question from the original poster. Poor ipconfig. I hope you're not too confused.