Loxodon Smiter

[Saya]

Loxodon Smiter:


We already have Knight in this mana area,though this card is so tough.It is not impossible to become firm finisher of GW-hate .

[MaximumCDawg]

Meh.  I thought of making this thread, and then I thought... why bother?  On the battlefield, this dork doesn't do anything various Kavus or Beasts (and Goyfs!) havn't been doing already.  If we were still in a creatureless world, then being able to dodge discard and countermagic might allow Smiter to slip through the cracks in opposing decks.  But, since people are packing Swords to Plowshares / Go for the Throat again, I'm not sure the upside of Smiter is enough to make up for the fact that it's smaller and less useful than KotR and more expensive than Goyf. 

I don't see him making any waves in Vintage, but I'm open to be proved wrong.

[A.-1.]

Again another almost Vintage-worthy card from this set.

Pros: It can't be countered, and it has a CMC of 3. (Take that Landstill!) It doesn't die to Lightning Bolt. Trades with Lodestone.

Cons: Its mana cost restricts it to certain decks. A 4/4 vanilla is decent, but in terms of a finisher, I'd rather have Tarmogoyf. It gets blocked all day by Forgemaster.

Best case scenario it might get played in sideboards as an answer to Landstill instead of Thrun.

EDIT while posting:

I don't see him making any waves in Vintage, but I'm open to be proved wrong.

[gkraigher]

The more I read this card, the worse I think it is.  Its not like an opponent is going to thoughtseize or inquision this card, so how is it going to get discarded?  Against Liliana sure, but that she doesn't see play at all.  No one plays hymn to tourach. 

Is a 4/4 for 3 mana even good today?  I don't think it is. 

[nedleeds]

If they print enough good can't be countered men (along with Cavern), first turn Nether Void might become a viable strategy once again. Being a Soldier keeps this guy in the mix as well as if you are also playing Cavern it can be Savannah for him without naming something as absurd as Elephant.

also:

[TheWhiteDragon]

If they print enough good can't be countered men (along with Cavern), first turn Nether Void might become a viable strategy once again. Being a Soldier keeps this guy in the mix as well as if you are also playing Cavern it can be Savannah for him without naming something as absurd as Elephant.

also:

My city in a bottle tech vs dredge just became exponentially more valuable.

[mikekilljoy]

It's an uncounterable 3 drop, but if I am playing Noble FIsh, I would rather have Trygon Predator or Cold Eyed Selkie in that spot.

[nedleeds]

It's an uncounterable 3 drop, but if I am playing Noble FIsh, I would rather have Trygon Predator or Cold Eyed Selkie in that spot.

Agree. It's obviously geared towards Legacy, maybe modern (though there are few good control cards in modern). A more vintage worthy version might have been:

Raging Mammoth - 3G

Trample

RM costs 1 less to cast for each artifact your opponents control.

4/4

... ick I don't even know if that's good enough ...the bar for dudes is pretty high these days

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

Anyone else getting tired of the WOTC, "LETS PRINT A DUDE WHO'S ALREADY UNDER COSTED FOR HIS POWER AND TOUGHNESS, AND THEM GIVE HIM ABILITIES THAT AREN'T DRAWBACKS!" approach to designing dudes? Not that this will see Vintage play, but it just seems lazy.

[KrauserKrauser]

Raging Mammoth - 3G

Trample

RM costs 1 less to cast for each artifact your opponents control.

4/4

... ick I don't even know if that's good enough ...the bar for dudes is pretty high these days

Would be easier to just make an uncommon naturalize that can't have its casting costs modified in any way.

So can't be cast for free or affected by Trinisphere but you could always cast it if you had 1G available.  Throw it out there to counteract a Commander deck that has Lodestone Golem and Thorn of Amethyst and you've got a marketable product.

[gkraigher]

Anyone else getting tired of the WOTC, "LETS PRINT A DUDE WHO'S ALREADY UNDER COSTED FOR HIS POWER AND TOUGHNESS, AND THEM GIVE HIM ABILITIES THAT AREN'T DRAWBACKS!" approach to designing dudes? Not that this will see Vintage play, but it just seems lazy.

Completely agree with you on this.  I've recently completely re-evaluated my entire collection and sold off a ton of cards because this is the trend.  A perfect example would be old man of the sea, which is completely worthless now.  Glad I got rid of him. 

[mikekilljoy]

Anyone else getting tired of the WOTC, "LETS PRINT A DUDE WHO'S ALREADY UNDER COSTED FOR HIS POWER AND TOUGHNESS, AND THEM GIVE HIM ABILITIES THAT AREN'T DRAWBACKS!" approach to designing dudes? Not that this will see Vintage play, but it just seems lazy.

I know this is not the place for it, but I will summarize here.

Wizards knows that they have to keep trying to outperform what they have done before to keep people interested. It's the same as any product. The problem is that they need to appeal to both the casual crowd and the serious crowd. Lose one and they will have problems.

[evouga]

Would be easier to just make an uncommon naturalize that can't have its casting costs modified in any way.

So can't be cast for free or affected by Trinisphere but you could always cast it if you had 1G available.  Throw it out there to counteract a Commander deck that has Lodestone Golem and Thorn of Amethyst and you've got a marketable product.

Right, I've wondered why they don't print a mechanic like this. For instance

Ataraxia
2GG
Sorcery

Destroy all artifacts and enchantments.

1G, discard Ataraxia: Destroy target artifact or enchantment.


The reason, I think, it that this mechanic just "feels less exciting" (to new players, at least) than the cheaper version with kicker:

Ataraxia
1G

Kicker 1G
Destroy target artifact or enchantment. If the kicker cost was paid, destroy all artifacts and enchantments instead.

[AmbivalentDuck]

Anyone else getting tired of the WOTC, "LETS PRINT A DUDE WHO'S ALREADY UNDER COSTED FOR HIS POWER AND TOUGHNESS, AND THEM GIVE HIM ABILITIES THAT AREN'T DRAWBACKS!" approach to designing dudes? Not that this will see Vintage play, but it just seems lazy.

The printing of Go For the Throat and Doom Blade (which makes sense relative to the CMC of Wrath, Damnation, etc) allowed critters to greatly increase in power relative to historical spells. Keeping in mind that Swords to Plowshares was printed way back in Alpha to answer Force of Nature and Shivan Dragon (at a time when you could play 30 Lotus, 29 Time Twister, 1 Fireball), this is a smidge overdue.

Because mana "discretizes" such that removal can't get cheaper than StP/Dismember/Gut Shot/Terminus, we can expect that critters can't get much bigger in standard than what we presently have in Legacy: 1 -> 3 power, 2 -> 5 power, 3 -> enough to kill in two swings

[vaughnbros]

Anyone else getting tired of the WOTC, "LETS PRINT A DUDE WHO'S ALREADY UNDER COSTED FOR HIS POWER AND TOUGHNESS, AND THEM GIVE HIM ABILITIES THAT AREN'T DRAWBACKS!" approach to designing dudes? Not that this will see Vintage play, but it just seems lazy.

The printing of Go For the Throat and Doom Blade (which makes sense relative to the CMC of Wrath, Damnation, etc) allowed critters to greatly increase in power relative to historical spells. Keeping in mind that Swords to Plowshares was printed way back in Alpha to answer Force of Nature and Shivan Dragon (at a time when you could play 30 Lotus, 29 Time Twister, 1 Fireball), this is a smidge overdue.

Because mana "discretizes" such that removal can't get cheaper than StP/Dismember/Gut Shot/Terminus, we can expect that critters can't get much bigger in standard than what we presently have in Legacy: 1 -> 3 power, 2 -> 5 power, 3 -> enough to kill in two swings

From alpha to urza block we saw pretty much all the great enchantments, instants, sorceries, and lands were printed.  Since then artifacts have covered ground on the other supertypes.  And still even with over 10 years of powering up creatures nearly every year they are still not near the others power level.  Making more strides towards "undercosted" beaters is the only way to close the gap.  When a creature goes on the restricted list because of its efficiency then I'd say they can stop powering them up.

A 3 mana 4/4 isnt really much when we already have goyf and knight of the reliquary and making it can't be countered doesn't really add enough since it's just a vanilla on board.  Even against what would probably be its best match up landstill it's still vulnerable to engineered explosives and jace bounce.

[KrauserKrauser]

I would compare it to Wilt Leaf Cavaliers.

+1 power while losing Hybrid mana

+Can't be countered and Discard Ability -Vigilance

Rare instead of uncommon

Seems fair to me and I don't remember anyone going crazy over Wilt-Leaf Cavaliers.

[Guli]

I don't see how this card is good. It is an oké card.

[Nefarias]

Anyone else getting tired of the WOTC, "LETS PRINT A DUDE WHO'S ALREADY UNDER COSTED FOR HIS POWER AND TOUGHNESS, AND THEM GIVE HIM ABILITIES THAT AREN'T DRAWBACKS!" approach to designing dudes? Not that this will see Vintage play, but it just seems lazy.

I know this is not the place for it, but I will summarize here.

Wizards knows that they have to keep trying to outperform what they have done before to keep people interested. It's the same as any product. The problem is that they need to appeal to both the casual crowd and the serious crowd. Lose one and they will have problems.

WotC's official stance (or at least, Maro's official explanation) on "power creep of creatures" is that for the first 15 or so years spells were just so much better than creatures that creatures were actually the most underperforming card type. You could even completely ignore them in many circumstances. They're just leveling the playing field and trying to get creatures to be relevant, because they want the game to ultimately be about creature combat.

Would be easier to just make an uncommon naturalize that can't have its casting costs modified in any way.

So can't be cast for free or affected by Trinisphere but you could always cast it if you had 1G available.  Throw it out there to counteract a Commander deck that has Lodestone Golem and Thorn of Amethyst and you've got a marketable product.

Right, I've wondered why they don't print a mechanic like this. For instance

Ataraxia
2GG
Sorcery

Destroy all artifacts and enchantments.

1G, discard Ataraxia: Destroy target artifact or enchantment.

They actually have printed that mechanic. It was called Channel. It just was on all bad cards from Kamigawa, where the Channel costs were overcosted and the effects were underpowered. I think the biggest issue with that mechanic is that it can't be countered.

]http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?text=+[channel]