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Onslaught
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this is me reading your posts
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« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2012, 07:51:31 am » |
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tito del monte
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« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2012, 04:39:35 am » |
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There really should be more discussion about this event since it was 194 people It's particularly interesting how they fly in the face of Brian DeMars' recent article: There are only 4 Dark Confidants and 4 Workshops total in this top 8. I'm not sure if that means the European metagame is ahead of, behind of or just very different to the US metagame. I also wonder how card availability affects things - certainly, I think DeMars said what he said about Bazaar/Workshop/Confidant in light of the also sanctioned Gencon results, but it does make you wonder: are the world's Workshops mostly in US hands? Even if a lot of jewelry seems to have made it to Europe during the great proxy-fuelled sell-off US power in the mid-2000s... I mean, I'm guessing it was P9 rather than Workshops for example that get given out as prizes during the SCG-backed vintage renaissance - and then moved on by proxy players with no need for them. Also: is Goblins a real deck then? (or perhaps what I should be asking, is Cavern of Souls genuinely playable?) |
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« Last Edit: October 10, 2012, 06:02:51 am by tito del monte »
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Phele
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Tom Bombadil
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« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2012, 06:32:26 am » |
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I am not sure, if there is a genuine european metagame, as the metagames are so different between the single nations. In Germany you see many Confidants and Workshops. In Italy I always notice a big amount of Storm approaches, let it be Ritual- or Intuition-Snapcaster-based with lots of fish variants as well. In Spain they have been in love with Drains forever as far as I can tell, which in the moment are mainly used in Gush- und Bomberman-builds (I would say, that Spain is the most blue-centric meta over the whole continent). France is the meta I know not too much about, as there are very rarely Vintage tournaments and BOM is a truely all European tournament, but I have seen many innovative Oath- and Bazaar-approaches of our french friends.
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Tom Bombadil is a merry fellow; Bright blue his jacket is, and his boots are yellow.
Free Illusionary Mask!!
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PeAcH
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« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2012, 06:40:00 am » |
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Regarding Workshops, don´t forget MUD has been THE TOP contender in EU tables as Fabian Moyschewitz (among other top shop pilots) has showed the world with his dominance of big tournaments during the last year and 1/2. The other contender being Dredge incarnated in Richard Lessmann himself who was making everyone bite the dust with his continuous innovations. EU Vintage players are well aware of the need to beat MUD (and Dredge) if one wants to top8 win @ an event of this characteristics (as you can see from most EU sideboards and maindecks). On the other hand, goblins is a force to be reckoned in large Vintage tournaments as we have seen over and over again in Ovino, Bom, and DDay several times during the last years. It has decent matchup against Dredge and MUD and also crushes other aggro decks. Now with Caver of Souls (along with Aether Vials), it has a more than decent match vs blue. During the last LCV, Jordi Carbonell 4-0ed in the Swiss then IDed x2 to lose to another aggro deck in the top8. You can find his really tuned decklist here: http://www.manainfinito.com/coverage/listas-top8-lcv-2012-septiembre |
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« Last Edit: October 10, 2012, 06:49:10 am by PeAcH »
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"Your deed cannot be undone. You, however, can be." @Peachmtg |
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Onslaught
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this is me reading your posts
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« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2012, 07:31:39 am » |
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I've been playing with a modified version of the first place deck, as it was pretty fascinating to me (3 MD Duress, absolutely no combo win - no Tinker/BSC, no Vault Key, no Storm kill...). I dropped the land count for more artifact mana, modified the toolbox utility spells to my preference, and added a fourth Jace and it has been performing amazingly well. On paper it looks so outmatched vs a Bob or Gush deck (especially since Bob has Snapcasters of it's own), but I think there is something to be said for not having any dead draws from an errant BSC or Time Vault or whatever. I mean, it's basically just Keeper, yet here it is being completely viable/attractive in this crazy format with tons of diversity. Clique is such a superstar.
As noted, the whole top 8 of this event is intriguing. Rituals are 100% dead in America, yet they were able to get 2nd place in a 200 person event that is normally dominated by Workshops? I really love the amount of playable decks in Vintage right now...
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Shock Wave
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« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2012, 07:42:36 pm » |
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Jaime Cano is amongst the best Vintage pilots in the world, no doubt. He comes up with very innovative decks and pilots them extremely well. I've lost count of the number of large European events that he has either won or finished in the T8. Congrats on the win!
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"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat."
- Theodore Roosevelt
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DuKeLiO
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« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2012, 11:43:39 am » |
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Thanks Richard!! If you want count you can see the list of achievements here(in spanish) which I update after every tournament  @Onslaught You are going backward with the list. I started it with more artifact accelerants and were replacing it with lands for consistency. I am happy beating a lot of opponents who had a dead card either board or hand, like Time Vault, Tendrils with a empty hand or Colossus. It is one of the keys of this deck. The key to beat Dark Confidants is Vendillion Clique. Clique puts a very short clock when your opponent is also taking damage from bob. Another key of the deck is using discard with Snapcaster Mage. We realized it a year ago and started to work in this deck. Duress+Snapcaster >>>> Flusterstorm+Snapcaster I've never liked Dark Confidant too much. We call it "ruedines", that are the little wheels you have in your bike when your are starting riding. When you know how to ride, you don't need them. Dark Confidant is worse as you becomes better, beacuse it is a card with no posible choices, it gives you free wins and also snatch away another that you would win otherwise. I use them as less as posible in control/control-combo decks in Vintage. |
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Jblaze4lif
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« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2012, 03:06:32 pm » |
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How was scavenging ooze for you? Do you think Tarmogoyf might be a good alternate choice with a heavy MUD meta? Your list def has many sorceries so Goyf will get big quick.
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DuKeLiO
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« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2012, 07:35:40 am » |
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In previous versions of the deck I played two Nihil Spellbomb in those slots. Two months ago I realized that my meta was growing on creature decks, and I changed them with the Scavengin. I don't like to play with less graveyard hate cards, and I think you don't need to play Tarmogoyf beacuse the pairings is good without them.
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Jblaze4lif
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« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2012, 09:27:15 am » |
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Thanks for the info. What is the percentage typIcally for MUD. Here in United states NY/NJ it is sometimes 40 to 50 percent of the field.
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DuKeLiO
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« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2012, 04:04:24 am » |
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Here, in Madrid, never was so high. We play in the land of blue mirrors, with at least 50% of the metagame of blue control/control-combo decks, and the other 50% being a mixture of MUD, aggro-decks like white trash or GW and some Ichorid. But this deck has a good pairing against MUD now. It has a good mana base with 18 lands, so Chalice of the Void is less painful, and with sideboard you play 3 Ancient Grudge, 3 Nature's Claim, 2 Ingot Chewer and 2 Lightning Bolt which you can replay with Snapcaster Mage. Also the deck is better against aggro versions with less Smokestacks and Crucible of Worlds, and worse against classic prison MUD.
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