Null Rod and Mana Abilities (specifically moxen, Sol Ring, and artifact lands)

[LotusHead]

Q: What happens if I Cremate a land from my opponent's graveyard in response to Deathrite Shaman's first ability?

A: Then the ability is countered entirely, since its only target is gone, and none of its effects happen.

"But Eli," you ask telepathically through time, "isn't that a mana ability?" Nope! One of the rules of mana abilities is that a mana ability can never, ever target. Doing so automatically removes it from the exclusive Mana Ability Club, and it has to use the stack just like other activated abilities.

This appeared at Cranial Insertion (spinoff from MTGSalvation, a weekly rules site).

The bolded part caught my interest, as Null Rod is the bane of my existance (Unless I maindeck it or SB it).

But the whole "mana abilities just kinda happen" thing bothers me compared with "Null Rod says Artifact's Activated Abilities don't happen".

I kinda understand that Deathrite Shaman's abilities all have a cost:effect template (as do artifact lands, etc) and hence an activated ability...but...

In analyzing the bold stuff, what rule says "Targeted stuff that produces mana is not a mana ability" and if an Island becomes a creature, and a few turns later, that white creature that says "Creatures can't use activated abilities" comes into play, can the Island tap for mana?

Is there any chain of logic that would say Null Rod wont affect Sol Ring?

I'm pretty sure the Null Rod thing is "moxen don't work under Null Rod", but I'm not sure why given some of this other stuff. Any help would be appreciated.

[xouman]

When it says "mana ability does not target" means that tapping a creature/artifact/land for mana do not involve targeting anything. Shaman is targeting a card in a grave, so its abiliy does not have *split second*.

On the other side, null rod is not answering to moxen tapping, just prevents them from being activated. Mana production is not involved at all, it'll came later.

[bactgudz]

Q: What happens if I Cremate a land from my opponent's graveyard in response to Deathrite Shaman's first ability?

A: Then the ability is countered entirely, since its only target is gone, and none of its effects happen.

"But Eli," you ask telepathically through time, "isn't that a mana ability?" Nope! One of the rules of mana abilities is that a mana ability can never, ever target. Doing so automatically removes it from the exclusive Mana Ability Club, and it has to use the stack just like other activated abilities.

This appeared at Cranial Insertion (spinoff from MTGSalvation, a weekly rules site).

The bolded part caught my interest, as Null Rod is the bane of my existance (Unless I maindeck it or SB it).

But the whole "mana abilities just kinda happen" thing bothers me compared with "Null Rod says Artifact's Activated Abilities don't happen".

I kinda understand that Deathrite Shaman's abilities all have a cost:effect template (as do artifact lands, etc) and hence an activated ability...but...

In analyzing the bold stuff, what rule says "Targeted stuff that produces mana is not a mana ability" and if an Island becomes a creature, and a few turns later, that white creature that says "Creatures can't use activated abilities" comes into play, can the Island tap for mana?

Is there any chain of logic that would say Null Rod wont affect Sol Ring?

I'm pretty sure the Null Rod thing is "moxen don't work under Null Rod", but I'm not sure why given some of this other stuff. Any help would be appreciated.

406. Mana Abilities

    406.1. A mana ability is either (a) an activated ability without a target that could put mana into a player’s mana pool when it resolves or (b) a triggered ability without a target that triggers from a mana ability and could produce additional mana. A mana ability can generate other effects at the same time it produces mana.

Moxen (and island) have a mana ability under (a)...shaman does not fit the definition since it has a target

[The Atog Lord]

It's amusing that Null Rod and Abeyance are both from the same set and have, basically, the same wording. However, Null Rod still stops mana abilities, while Abeyance no longer does.

[Delha]

...and if an Island becomes a creature, and a few turns later, that white creature that says "Creatures can't use activated abilities" comes into play, can the Island tap for mana?

Since nobody has addressed it specifically... No, the Island cannot tap for mana. It works like Moxen under a Null Rod.

[LotusHead]

Thanks for awesome responses guys!

I think I got everything cleared up.

[xouman]

Since nobody has addressed it specifically... No, the Island cannot tap for mana. It works like Moxen under a Null Rod.

For example, Dryad Arbor with a Damping Matrix in play :p It won't tap for mana, but it could attack.

[Troy_Costisick]

It's amusing that Null Rod and Abeyance are both from the same set and have, basically, the same wording. However, Null Rod still stops mana abilities, while Abeyance no longer does.

I hate that too.  Don't forget Cursed Totem is from the same block and it turns off mana abilities too.

[Guli]

Since nobody has addressed it specifically... No, the Island cannot tap for mana. It works like Moxen under a Null Rod.

For example, Dryad Arbor with a Damping Matrix in play :p It won't tap for mana, but it could attack.

Dryad Arbor's ability is a mana ability, Damping should not prevent Dryad Arbor from activating for a   mana. Am I missing something?

[Clariax]

Damping Matrix does not stop Dryad Arbor from being tapped for mana.  Damping Matrix doesn't stop mana abiltiies.

[xouman]

Oops, sorry. I wrote that too quickly...