Mono White Hatebears - Post RTR

[Protoaddict]

Wanted to post the list I am currently playing here for all to see and get some feedback on. I think it is pretty good and does not specifically have a terrible match against anything.

Maindeck

Sideboard

CREATURES 4 Dryad militant 4 Judge's familar 1 Icatian Javelineers 4 Leonin arbiter 3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben 4 Leonin relic warder 3 Kataki, War's Wage 3 Aven mindcensor REMOVAL 3 Swords to Plowshares 1 Path to Exile MISC HATE 3 Grafdiggers cage 3 Rest in peace 3 Stony silence MANA 1 mox pearl 1 black lotus 1 elvish spirit guide 1 stripmine 4 wastelands 1 ghost quarters 1 karakas 8 plains 3 cavern of souls

3 corrosive gale 1 grafdiggers cage 1 rest in peace 1 stony silence 1 Kataki, War's Wage 2 abolish 4 mental misstep 2 Grand abolisher

So the idea with the deck is obviously that everything in the deck hates on one or more existing decktypes or strategies. There is also a lot of synergy between cards and I tried to keep the counter synergies to a minimum (Kataki is just a card that has to be in the deck). Some explanations on some of the new and odd stuff:

• Dryad Militant - Hates on Dredge, Yawgs Will, Snapcaster Mage and the like. It also helps diversify the mana curve and is a 1 mana drop. Shares solider type with Thalia for cavern of souls and if you can get both of them in play turn 1 or 2 you are probably in VERY good shape against those lists. Since it is also green the singleton ESG can be used to cast it turn 1 as well.
• Judges Familiar - Sits in the right place on the curve to fill this decks need. good against storm lists. Also damn good against gush if they try to gush in response to wastelands.
• Icatian Javelineers - Seems oddball but has very real applications. Can be used against dredge on itself to turn off bridge. Can kill delvers pre flip. Can kill other Thalias in the mirror. It also is a 1 mana option so in wanting to make sure the deck has first turn plays as well as helping round out the mana curve it seems like the best option.
• Rest in Peace - In addition to hosing anything grave based, the card has the upside of also making your opponents tarmogoyfs and Scavenging oozes basically non issues. Goyf can be a real issue for this deck just because of its size, but with this in play they have to deal with your rip which by the time it hits play has already done its job.
• corrosive gale - A card that is basically strictly for delver. There were not that many good options in my opinion and gale fits pretty well. 2 mana to wipe the board of delvers seems strong. If you side out your mindcensor for this you have no counter synergy.
• Abolish - I needed something at 3 to deal with CotV. One of the hardest cards for this list to get around is a resolved Chalice set for 2, and this lets you pop it for no mana so you can maintain your tempo.
• Grand Abolisher - It is amazing just how powerful this card can be. Resolving this against some lists turn one may very well lead to a scoop turn turn if you land some other relevant hate piece. I have opened with mox pearl into cavern on humans into this dude into lotus into grafdiggers cage into thalia before and there is a large list of decks that just cannot deal with that.

But as you can seem everything in the deck is some sort of swiss army knife of hate against some existing card or deck.
There are like 24+ cards in the main deck that mess with tinker strategies, 14 or so that hit dredge in some way, etc.

There a few slots/cards I am considering.

• Sol ring - The deck does not have a huge number of ways to utilize the mana from this which is why it is not main decked. Thinking I want to add it to the sideboard because it does help against spheres and taxes, but at the cost of what.
• Cavern of souls 4 - Avoided 4 maindeck because there is not enough crossover between creature types, but after sideboarding it may be worth it since against decks with counter magic you are bringing in the abolishers which are human/clerics which match a lot of what you have.
• Swords or Path - So path is better in most regards since it combos well with mindcensors and arbiters, but the deck may or may not reliably have one of them in play at any given time. Swords can be safer but tempos you out against relevant targets like blightsteel. I think having a split may be a good option since it does protect you from meddling mage and surgical extraction, but what should the split be? 3-1, 2-2, or 1-3

Anyways, this is my first deck post here. So I would love some feedback. Ill write up some matchups one of these days, though I do expect gatecrash may have some more 1 mana hybrid white drops that will wind up working incredibly well in this list.

[vaughnbros]

There's no real big omissions or weird cards in this list, outside of a couple sideboard cards and the random 1 javelineer.

With no colorless lands outside of waste/strip and not much artifact mana I do have to ask what real advantage are you gaining in this build by going mono white over a multicolored deck?

[Protoaddict]

Well Arbiter makes multi color harder and I think it is way to good to cut.

I would have to play True Duals and Shocks for a 2 color deck over fetches which is probably not ideal against other damage dealing decks. Anything over 2 colors and we are probably talking rainbow mana and then potentially a mana dork for fixing.

It also makes me much more vulnerable to wastelands which as it stands now this deck is ok with.

There was also not a lot of creature type crossover for cavern of souls, which is what let's me sneak in my hate cards under counter magic and functions as mana fixing in some cases.

Lastly I was not sure what I would even gain with other colors that white does not have access to.

• Green does not seem great since the deck would hate on goyf and ooze and GSZ. I dont love those guys either since they dont hate on stuff as much as just beat. Gaddok teeg can be strong but there are other cards that prevent the things he prevents in white (Grand Abolisher for instance)
• Red has bolt but other than that I an not sure the deck really needs what it has to offer. Most of the artifact hate red has is not necessarily stronger than what i already run.
• Black has confidant and a few power cards, but confidant is risky since I will probably take damage every turn from him and my land base and the deck is not super fast, plus he is not a hate piece himself.
• Blue offers power but it is power that I am already hating on a bit. Ancestral and Timewalk would find a home but the creatures are not better than what I have as delver is bad in a deck with so many creatures and no fetches. The deck does not want to interact with the stack it wants to prevent it.

All and all I did not see a reason to play another color because I did not see the benefits of doing so over the benefits of having a 100% consistent mana base without a tax on my life total and making me less vulnerable to wastelands.

[vaughnbros]

Well Arbiter makes multi color harder and I think it is way to good to cut.

He doesn't completely prohibit you from using fetches.  Turn 1 and 2 you should still be able to use them and late game when you have mana you will also be able to.

I would have to play True Duals and Shocks for a 2 color deck over fetches which is probably not ideal against other damage dealing decks. Anything over 2 colors and we are probably talking rainbow mana and then potentially a mana dork for fixing.

There are a lot of options outside of shock lands, like filters, m10/innistrad duals, scars duals, and others that don't cause damage.

It also makes me much more vulnerable to wastelands which as it stands now this deck is ok with.

Your still playing caverns so your mana base isn't exactly waste proof.  2 or 3 basics and on color fetch lands should be enough to protect you from being mana denied.

There was also not a lot of creature type crossover for cavern of souls, which is what let's me sneak in my hate cards under counter magic and functions as mana fixing in some cases.

Yeh I didnt really notice this at first glance.  Caverns is essentially a colorless land in your deck.  I'm not sure how effective it is to just make 1 or 2 creatures uncounterable though.

All and all I did not see a reason to play another color because I did not see the benefits of doing so over the benefits of having a 100% consistent mana base without a tax on my life total and making me less vulnerable to wastelands.

Running a second color certainly isn't required, but I've always found 2 color decks to have just as consistent, waste resistant mana bases as mono colored decks.

Lastly I was not sure what I would even gain with other colors that white does not have access to.

• Green: The biggest things I think this color could give you are Knight of the Reliquary, Qasali Pridemage, and mana dorks, Deathrite Shaman and Hierarch.  There is also a number of options you'd gain in your mana base, like Horizon Canopy, Stirring Wildwood, or Treetop Village
• Red: Lightning Bolt, Magus of the Moon, and Welder are the three best red cards.  I agree though this doesn't really seem like the best color, although Magus with Stony Silence is brutal.
• Black: Dark Confidant may have some weakness, but he will almost always draw a counter or removal and for good reason.  If he stays on the table a few turns he creates near insurmountable card advantage.  Black also gives you access to Liliana of the Veil, Thoughtseize/Duress, and the tutors, Demonic Consultation, Demonic tutor, and Vampiric Tutor
• Blue: Yes Ancestral and Timewalk are big, but not the only reason to run blue.  You get meddling mage, force of will, and daze as well as a way to actually cast your mental missteps, and possibly gitaxian probes

To me black or green seem like natural fits for white as they make you much more competitive early and late game.

If your having success with how the list is now though you can stick with it.  I would suggest doing some more testing and changing the sideboard accordingly.  Without doing any testing of this the only match up I'd question would be fish mirror matches since you don't really have any card advantage, large creatures, or much removal.

[TheWhiteDragon]

in a beats deck, I think green is the best.  Without taking away from your beats plan (by running counters or duress), you get fatties, speed, and disruption (heirarch, qasali, teeg are the top 3 IMHO).  You get to hose counter/combo decks with teeg, hit oath (your worst matchup perhaps) with qasali, have explosive turn 2+ with heirarch, and get the bonus of using colored mana from ESG instead of colorless.  The exalted is also highly relevant in a beats plan.  Mono white seems to offer much less than something like monored or monoblack decks get.  White almost always benefits from a supplemental color, varying depending on strategy (but usually green for the beats plan).

[rmn]

You should use True Believer vs. Oath and Storm.  And maybe some copies of Preacher since you're monowhie.

[credmond]

The interesting thing about white now is that rest in peace and helm is a really compact win on the spot combo that is composed of one of the strongest cards in vintage right now (ie rest in peace). Dark Times often features leyline/helm. Can mono-white feature r.i.p/helm?

[Protoaddict]

The interesting thing about white now is that rest in peace and helm is a really compact win on the spot combo that is composed of one of the strongest cards in vintage right now (ie rest in peace). Dark Times often features leyline/helm. Can mono-white feature r.i.p/helm?

I did consider helm since it is a 2 card win. But I had issues with it.
First off it works counter to my hate. Kataki taxes it, stony turns it off, and grafdiggers would prevent me from getting a creature with it if I have to use it without the combo.
Second of all, 5 mana (1 for activation) is quite costly. I don't have shops in the list nor dark ritual like Dark times to power it.
Lastly I would want a tutors in a list that wanted to run that. Black has the best of them right now, white could use enlightened tutor but it is counter to arbiter and Thalia. I could pay the tax on both of them but at that point it would probably be better to just play bodies.

I am also not sure that I would consider the list a beats deck, since the way I have it now almost everything is a prison card. If I wanted to go straight beat down in this list I would think I would want something like Student of warfare or Mirran Crusader to attack with (though mirran crusaders protections make him somewhat attractive to the deck)

I do like the idea of running True Believer. But what to cut?

[xouman]

When do you want true believer?

-Against Oath is top (but you still have to get over Plan B as Show&tell, jace or vault.

-You can't be targetted with tendrils (but still ETW).

-It annuls other cards as Cabal Therapy, TGZ, Gifts, intuition


It's good against oath, then storm. It's bad against MUD, poor against aggro. I can't find proper cards in the side to make space, but corrosive gale seems quite marginal.


PD: any prison deck should play revokers imho. they shut moxen, but also jaces, vault, welders, kuldothas...

[Protoaddict]

Revoker is not a bad idea, though I look at it as strictly SB because it is counter to the Katakis in the list and I really dont want to be sinking mana into playing taxes every turn. Alternately is revoker as a body better than pithing needle which can name bazaar?

The more I get to thinking about it though the less I want mental misstep in the list. It is not really in the SB for any specific card, i guess its good against rituals and beltcher, but in those situations it may be marginal. The corrosive gales are specifically for Delvers, but maybe it would be better off as something more specifically suited towards just killing creatures like Dismember?

Maybe Ill try a SB like this:
2 Dismember
1 sol ring
1 grafdiggers cage
1 rest in peace
1 stony silence
1 Kataki, War's Wage
2 abolish
3 True Believer
3 Grand Abolisher

Still unsure if sol ring is right for this deck or not. Whenever I try it I find myself not loving it, but then when I take it out I find myself wanting it, especially against shops.

[StanleyAugust]

The first thing I'd do is this:

-3 Grafdigger's Cage
-1 Aven Mindcensor

+4 Leonin Arbiter

Arbiter does all you need Cage to do when you play Rest in Peace anyway.

[Protoaddict]

I already had arbiter in the list.

As mentioned before, a lot of this list is redundant on purpose. I'm going to go home later and work on a grid to explain this, but the idea is that if you lined up every common strategy or deck type or even card that sees play in the format there are basically multiple cards in the list that affect it. I cannot rely on drawing an arbiter every match, but I can assume i will get an arbiter or a cage or something else.

So against decks that have Green suns zenith I can expect to play a cage or arbiter with an acceleration or mindcensor and a lotus or whatever else. Against decks that have oath I have the cages still but then I also have Rest in Peace to prevent dragons breath wins on the spot and relic warder to exile oath. Against dredge I have cage and Rip and Dryad and so on.

[vaughnbros]

I already had arbiter in the list.

As mentioned before, a lot of this list is redundant on purpose. I'm going to go home later and work on a grid to explain this, but the idea is that if you lined up every common strategy or deck type or even card that sees play in the format there are basically multiple cards in the list that affect it. I cannot rely on drawing an arbiter every match, but I can assume i will get an arbiter or a cage or something else.

So against decks that have Green suns zenith I can expect to play a cage or arbiter with an acceleration or mindcensor and a lotus or whatever else. Against decks that have oath I have the cages still but then I also have Rest in Peace to prevent dragons breath wins on the spot and relic warder to exile oath. Against dredge I have cage and Rip and Dryad and so on.

Yes redundancy is important to insure consistency in deck without a draw engine.  This is the main reason I was advocating black it removes the need for so much redundancy.  Your cards end up having a lot of dis synergy in this build.

If your plan is to stick with mono white I'll comment on your list as is. 

You are lacking redundancy on extremely powerful effects like non creature spheres and removal though in exchange for an exorbitant amount of graveyard hate and search hate.  Most fish and workshops decks couldn't care less about these effects and most blue decks are resilient enough to play around them.  Personally I'd cut the mindcensors, and main deck rest in peaces for glowriders and removal, possibly jitte, preacher, path or fiend hunter.

Maybe Ill try a SB like this:
2 Dismember
1 sol ring
1 grafdiggers cage
1 rest in peace
1 stony silence
1 Kataki, War's Wage
2 abolish
3 True Believer
3 Grand Abolisher

Still unsure if sol ring is right for this deck or not. Whenever I try it I find myself not loving it, but then when I take it out I find myself wanting it, especially against shops.

What is your sideboard plan with this?

Before I build a sideboard I like to ask myself two question.  1. Is my main deck finished?  If yes.  2. How many cards need to come out in each match up?  Then I go from there.  Currently in your 75 I'm seeing far more than 60 cards I'd want in against storm and blue decks, and far less than 60 that I'd want in against shops and fish.

[xouman]

Pithing does not annul mana abilities, being useless on solomoxen. Even it shuts bazaar and factory activations, in a prison deck revoker is better by far.

Aven mindcensor is great, mostly by the surprise factor and because it flies. If delvers are a trouble, mindcensor is a solution. And because it has flash, opponent wouldn't know if you have it or not.

I'd play jitte and sofi in the side. You play lots of creatures, and both equipments are great in aggro matches. Both take care of delvers, and i'm happy to pay 1 mana each turn with a kataki (sofi and jitte several turns on battlefield could easily win matches). Besides, in most matches where you want those equipments, you will probably side out katakis (a 2/1 legend is poor).

[Protoaddict]

I would think i would sooner take out the Stony Silences for Jitte and SOFI if I used them wouldn't I?

It's a thought. I need to play a little more with the list honestly to see where the match up holes are. The games I have tested with the list so far are alright, I think I may want to run just a touch more enchantment hate like keening aspiration for Oath but so far the deck is proving solid.

[serracollector]

good list.. my comments.

aven mindcensor is superior to arbiter.

it makes me very sad to see any monowhite list without Ethersworn Cannonists somewhere in ur 75. the card is amazing in any list where u dont plan on drawing more than 1 a turn or dropping more than 1 threat a turn. i would maindeck 4 revokers and 4 ethersworn and keep kataki/stony in side personally.

gl