Underworld Dreams in Belcher?

[serracollector]

I have recently been toying around with a very aggro belcher list using uderworld dreams along with wheel of fortune and a set of reforge the soul. In testing it has done quite well in spite of the mass array of hate against it. The reason it does this is not only speed, but as in more current wish/oath builds, threat density and redundancy.
Here is my current list with more explnations on card choices and plays.

THREATS 11
3 x Underworld Dreams
4 x Empty the warrens
4 x Goblin Charbelcher

DRAW 14
4 x gitaxian probe
4 x manamorphose
4 x reforge the soul
1 x wheel of fortune
1 x memory jar

MANA 35
5 x mox
6 x sol/vault/crypt/lotus/petal/led
3 x chrome mox
3 x mox opal
4 x ssguide
4x dark ritual
4 x rit of flame
3 x cabal ritual
3 x seething song

RECURSION 1
1 x yawg win


SIDEBOARD 15
4 x badlands
4 x ingot chewer
2 x shatterring spree
2 x pyroclasm
2 x defense grid
1 x goblin welder

In my original list w out dreams i ran tendrils in its place but have found dreams slieghtly better in both goldfishing and real game play due to changes in the meta and the unrestrictions of gush and wish.
Getting a turn one ritual/cabal/lotus into underworld dreams puts an immediate threat out there for many of the currently used decks out there most of which dont have an answer for. Here for example are a few cards/scenerios where it really shines.

-oath into griselbrand- he now reads pay 14 draw 7 which is huge in itself not allowing them to draw 14 and leaving them at most 6 life to play with not taking into account vamp-ts-orchard token hits-fetches-an army of goblins-plus the dreams itself.

jace tms- bolt to the face. if they use the bs ability on 3 counters he can kill himself. either way makes digging w jace slow way down and become painful quick.

standstill- if you get turn 1 ritual dreams and they dont have fow or mm you probably won whether u get another bomb or draw 7 off or not.

bomberman - puts a big halt on drawing your deck w those spellbombs.

wish.dec -between my draw 7s and theirs dreams can def cause problems for them.


There are other situations and decks/cards that dreams is a good win condition versus but the fact it keeps a steady permanent threat on the board and can also be an autowin w a few draw 7s makes it currently good in general.

In tandem with almost any amount of warrens it makes a quick clock.
This allows me to be more agrressive w empty. even something like turn 1 mox-mox-ritual-empty for 8 turn 1 then turn 2 dreams means that even if they stabalize off 1-2 hits from the gobos the are on a serious clock and digging for answers only hurts while i only need to rip off another etw-draw 7-belcher to win.

As for decks w out major draw engines such as fish and mud that is where being able to splash 6 draw 7s is great. being able to unload rituals/dreams then chain a draw 7 or 2 is not hard to pull off even under golem w all the moxen/ssg. lots of draw 7s also make led really shine. also yes i have miracled rftsoul but it hasnt been a problem hardcasting it.

as stated at the beginning i know the deck has many hate cards against it and thus my sb is aimed mainly at those problem areas. i know many would suggest a green splash for stony silence amongst other reasons but this 2 color build has been amazing and consistent for me. please test it out and have fun w it.
 

[Methuselahn]

I think it's great that you're toying with Underworld Dreams.  I'm not sure how effective it is in this particular deck, however. 

-oath into griselbrand- he now reads pay 14 draw 7 which is huge in itself not allowing them to draw 14 and leaving them at most 6 life to play with not taking into account vamp-ts-orchard token hits-fetches-an army of goblins-plus the dreams itself.

jace tms- bolt to the face. if they use the bs ability on 3 counters he can kill himself. either way makes digging w jace slow way down and become painful quick.

standstill- if you get turn 1 ritual dreams and they dont have fow or mm you probably won whether u get another bomb or draw 7 off or not.

bomberman - puts a big halt on drawing your deck w those spellbombs.

wish.dec -between my draw 7s and theirs dreams can def cause problems for them.

The problem with most of these situations is that Underworld Dreams is marginally effective after your opponent has developed their hand/board state.  You DON'T want to punish oath after they've gotten their Grisel in play.  You're probably better of if they never get it into play in the first place.  Same with Jace. Your chances of winning are likely better if Jace never enters the battlefield, Dreams or no.   Landstill- yea. it's probably a house versus that deck but getting it in play versus all their counters isn't easy.   If they've run out of counters, well, maybe you should just Belch them out instead.  If bomberman is in a position to draw a bunch of cards with spellbombs then they've already siezed control of the game.   Giving a Wish deck draw 7s is less than ideal.

Belcher has always been the deck that wants to end the game as fast as possible.   Underworld Dreams wins over several turns by nature.  I haven't played your list but this seems like a conflict of interest.

Dreams doesn't help you versus the Workshop matchup and that is going to be one of your hardest.

It's been a while since I've played a Charbelcher list but my favorite cards in that deck were always  Goblin Welder, Land Grant, and Xantid Swarm.

Good luck.

[RichardD]

What I dislike most about this deck is that it scoops to Workshop (with Spheres).

Considering Shop is still one of the most played decks, I don't think this deck is viable at all.

Also; How often are you going to Miracle the RtS? It will cost you 5 mana otherwise, which seems less optimal than making the deck 3 colors and putting Blue in the deck for Timetwister, AncRecal, Windfal and the likes.