Ghosttown Shops

[msg67183]

I played this list today at Bloomsburg and got 2nd place:

4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Wasteland
3 Ghost Quarter
Strip Mine
Tolarian Academy
Black Lotus
Mana Crypt
Mox Sapphire
Mox Jet
Mox Emerald
Mox Ruby
Mox Pearl
Sol Ring

4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Thorn of Amethyst
Trinisphere

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Tangle Wire
3 Crucible of Worlds

4 Lodestone Golem
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Phyrexian Metamorph

Sideboard:

4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Dismember
3 Ratchet Bomb
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

My matchups were as follows:

Round 1: Burning Long 2-1
Losing to a game 2 switch to Laboratory Maniac Oath

Round 2: Elves 2-0
Not much to say here, Chalice on 1 and Trinisphere do wonders

Round 3: Keeper 1-2
Lost game 1 to Welder plus Gorilla Shaman
Lost game 3 to having 3 Ancient Tombs out and 4 Metamorphs

Round 4: Oath 2-0
Lodestone goes to town game 1
Factory beats face while Chalice is at 1 and 2

Top 4: Dredge 2-1
Lost game 1 but not by much, he had just enough mana to Dread Return a Golgari Grave Troll with 11 counters on it, with 0 Bridges in his yard due to Serum Powdering his 7 three times!
Games 2 and 3 had a bunch of hate and I got there
Highlight of the day was a Metamorph copying a Zombie Token

Finals: Keeper 0-2
Game 1 lost to Vault Key WHILE I had Chalice at 1 out, nice Tinker Rob
Game 2 was lost to a hardcasted Myr Battlesphere

All in all I really enjoyed the deck, I think I'd rather have the 4 th Ratchet Bomb than the Tabernacle

Thank you for reading and post any thoughts you may have.

[gkraigher]

Game 1 lost to Vault Key WHILE I had Chalice at 1 out, nice Tinker Rob

It's reasons like this that make me sure Chalice of the Void is an awful card in MUD.  I prefer mental missteps out of the board, and other more aggressive cards in the main.  I have lost a lot of game when I had chalice of the void in play, one game where I had it out for 1, 2, and 3.  I'm convinced the card is subpar. 

[Random Noob]

Chalice of the Void is the Jedi card, can win games on its own, or do nothing. In Mud I guess its sure a good card, combining Shops with color can get ugly with Chalice, but still on the go set for zero, and on the draw set for 1 are good plays. Chalice 2 disrupts your own game plan, of dropping Spheres, so I would just do this setting, if your Opponent is going for the Oath.

[msg67183]

I'm not too much of a fan of Chalice. Against Rob in the Finals I had Chalice at 0 at 1 at 2 and at 3 and lost to him hard casting his Myr Battlesphere. Tough breaks I guess...

[Random Noob]

Hm...  I wouldn't blame the Chalice, Chalice is not the card that wins the game, it just buys time. I guess the problem was, that you had no other Gas, to beat the Opponent in the time your Chalices gave you. I experienced how strong Grafdigger's Cage is in Fishy Decks, maybe its a card Shops could play instead of Chalice, but i guess this is a move, where most say you can't.

Also Thorn of Amethyst isn't that strong anymore, with all the Creatures around, Ingot Chewers in the SB, and Confidant as the blue Draw Engine, instead of Gush. Mentioning Confidant, he draws also cards under the Wire.

While buidling Mud, you are in 5 seconds up to 50 Cards, so when you want to do something new, Thorns, Chalices, and Tangle Wires are cards where you have to set on the Knife. Well even if it hurts... Null Rod is a good card with Spheres and maybe Smokies.

[Bibendum]

I think if you want to run a prison build at the moment null rod is key. Having 3 rods lets you chalice at one for more value knowing the moxen are not something you are worried about them building through. with more creatures rolling around Thorn is pretty much obsolete. Deathrite shaman has made the crucible lock a bit weaker and decks running so many basics have also taken value out of that plan. I think stack and wire in this kind of build have been pushed back to the forefront of our gameplan.


Getting back to chalice. Chalice is a 4 of on the play and can be cut post board to 2 or even 0 on the draw. its too good on the play at shutting off potential answers

[Random Noob]

From the top of my head, this is something I would suggest:

4 Mishra's Workshop
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Buried Ruin
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
3 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine

1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt

4 Sphere of Resistance
1 Trinisphere
3 Tangle Wire
3 Smokestack
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Null Rod
4 Chalice of the Void

3 Phyrexian Metamorph
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Lodestone Golem

2 Uba Mask


Maybe too much Buried Ruins, but they are good with Bazaar and Crucie, and somewhere testing must start. I don't mind discussing if Lotus and Mana Vault must have their spot, I orientated on the philosophie to run permanent scources. There were some people already doing this, like the old Espresso Lists. Mud just doesn't win, by dropping an all in 1st Turn Golem anymore, most Players have numerous answers for this.

[Bibendum]

I ran something very similar to this a few weeks ago went 4-2 just missed top 8. 4 factories 2 less buried ruin 4 stack 4 wire 2 uba less bazaar but same idea. Its really good but im worried its only because 3/4s of my opponents didn't know what uba mask was lol.

[gkraigher]

the reason i prefer mental misstep to chalice is simple, misstep always gets 1 card.  chalice can be played around, and then when the right time comes they remove it and get to cast everything they want.  misstep is a trap, and effects players mulligan decisions.  you might keep a 1 lander on the play if you have ancestral recall.  Against a chalice that is good, against a misstep that is probably a game loss.  

I would say on the play, i would probably want chalice, but you are not on the play every game.  on the draw, misstep is leaps and bounds better than chalice.  and even on the play it isn't as bad as chalice is on the draw. 

[Bibendum]

WHat about the game where you go mox mox chalice sphere and there opener is a land with multiple pieces of fast mana? If they are using spot removal on chalice your smokestack/golem ect are not having it used on them. Misstep is bad agianst the mirror while chalice can be one of the best cards. I don't think misstep is a bad call but you severely under value chalice.

[Samoht]

I ran something very similar to this a few weeks ago went 4-2 just missed top 8. 4 factories 2 less buried ruin 4 stack 4 wire 2 uba less bazaar but same idea. Its really good but im worried its only because 3/4s of my opponents didn't know what uba mask was lol.

Uba Mask? Sure...resolves. EoT Brainstorm!  Main Phase JaceStorm. AMIDOINGITRITE?!?!?!?!?

[vaughnbros]

Chalice had a time when I would have considered it the best unresticted non land in the deck, but its power has been waning for some time.  I don't think its an auto include in aggro shops builds any more.  There are a number of decks that it is widely ineffective against...

1. Blue control decks, i.e. Bomberman and Landstill.  Both decks play relatively few 1 drops, really only their removal spells, and when chalice is relevant they have EE main deck to remove it, and sideboard a plethora of answers.

2. Creature type decks, i.e. Humans and Merfolk.  They have cavern of souls to render your chalice useless at least once and if you don't have a wasteland for the rest of the game.

3. Workshop Mirrors.  Its never been good here unless you have it in your opening hand on the play.

4. Dredge.  I won't say its useless, but its pretty close to being so.  Game 2/3 it can bite you just as often as it helps.

5. BUG fish.  A diversified mana curve and abrupt decay.

Of course it still has its match ups, like Delver and Burning long, where it is extremely potent.

[Bibendum]

Chalice had a time when I would have considered it the best unresticted non land in the deck, but its power has been waning for some time.  I don't think its an auto include in aggro shops builds any more.  There are a number of decks that it is widely ineffective against...

1. Blue control decks, i.e. Bomberman and Landstill.  Both decks play relatively few 1 drops, really only their removal spells, and when chalice is relevant they have EE main deck to remove it, and sideboard a plethora of answers.

2. Creature type decks, i.e. Humans and Merfolk.  They have cavern of souls to render your chalice useless at least once and if you don't have a wasteland for the rest of the game.

3. Workshop Mirrors.  Its never been good here unless you have it in your opening hand on the play.

4. Dredge.  I won't say its useless, but its pretty close to being so.  Game 2/3 it can bite you just as often as it helps.

5. BUG fish.  A diversified mana curve and abrupt decay.

Of course it still has its match ups, like Delver and Burning long, where it is extremely potent.

1. Chalice on 1 with a null rod is one of the best things you can do against these decks. SHuts off all of the swords from bomberman and the bolts from standstill. not to mention welder, steel sab and other stuff.

2. you run 5 waste effects and 4 chalices. They run 4 caverns. if you have a chalice without them having a cavern they enter scoop phase. If you have a chalice on two for monre then 2 turns and you don't have a hand that is just gas and no threats, you put yourself so far ahead that it doesn't matter if they land the cavern.

3. What about after the smokestack rebuild? Its crucial if you land a mox into chalice then. In the opener it is also amazing but when you are fighting over perms after a smokestack war landing that chalice is amazing.

4. if you can land a piece of hate or two then have the chalice come down, you shut off all the removal in the deck minus chewer and stop therapy.

5. Abrupt decay sucks. Landing chalice on one and protecting it wins you the game against them. You lose to DRS. Nothing else in that deck is as scary, trygon included. Sure its going to eat abrupt decay but so is tangle wire, sphere , crucible , revoker and Trinisphere. Should we stop playing those?

Chalice is not the dominant force it was where there was no answer too it. But it is still immensely powerful. I feel like people saw cavern and assumed chalice was dead. Chalice still hoses a ton of decks and can win match-ups if placed early and properly. Sure there are negative aspects to the card but most cards in shops has its trade off for its power level.

[Bibendum]

I ran something very similar to this a few weeks ago went 4-2 just missed top 8. 4 factories 2 less buried ruin 4 stack 4 wire 2 uba less bazaar but same idea. Its really good but im worried its only because 3/4s of my opponents didn't know what uba mask was lol.

Uba Mask? Sure...resolves. EoT Brainstorm!  Main Phase JaceStorm. AMIDOINGITRITE?!?!?!?!?

Yea had both of those happen and a main phase turn 1 ancestral.

[vaughnbros]

Chalice is not the dominant force it was where there was no answer too it. But it is still immensely powerful.  I feel like people saw cavern and assumed chalice was dead. Chalice still hoses a ton of decks and can win match-ups if placed early and properly.

All I'm saying is that its a card that has been considered uncuttable.  Maybe its time we start viewing it differently.  In prison shops I think its still a necessary evil.  In more creature heavy more aggro builds though, I think its very different.  You are not usually getting into a permanent war and you are very unlikely to lock them out the entire game. 

[wiley]

Uba Mask? Sure...resolves. EoT Brainstorm!  Main Phase JaceStorm. AMIDOINGITRITE?!?!?!?!?

Yea had both of those happen and a main phase turn 1 ancestral.

So, the eot bs under uba is great for the shops player since when the turn ends the blue player can't play those cards (uba reads this turn, not until eot), the jacestorm has to draw them into three non counters to be relevant and they have to have an empty hand or else they end up putting two cards back, possibly without a shuffle effect.

The turn 1 ancestral is always bad news for a shop deck.  If it was a brainstorm under uba then they either emptied their hand, making it so they couldn't land drop off bs, or they still had to put 2 back and possibly strand what would be relevant spells.

Uba isn't nearly as bad as you make it out to be.  That said, I'm not sure I would play it in a deck with no access to welder, since it doesn't always do enough to deserve a slot on its own.

[Random Noob]

I am not sure, but wasn't there a new errata around 2008, that disabled the Lock, with welding Uba into Uba?

[Bibendum]

Uba Mask? Sure...resolves. EoT Brainstorm!  Main Phase JaceStorm. AMIDOINGITRITE?!?!?!?!?

Yea had both of those happen and a main phase turn 1 ancestral.

So, the eot bs under uba is great for the shops player since when the turn ends the blue player can't play those cards (uba reads this turn, not until eot), the jacestorm has to draw them into three non counters to be relevant and they have to have an empty hand or else they end up putting two cards back, possibly without a shuffle effect.

The turn 1 ancestral is always bad news for a shop deck.  If it was a brainstorm under uba then they either emptied their hand, making it so they couldn't land drop off bs, or they still had to put 2 back and possibly strand what would be relevant spells.

Uba isn't nearly as bad as you make it out to be.  That said, I'm not sure I would play it in a deck with no access to welder, since it doesn't always do enough to deserve a slot on its own.

It was sarcasm.... Im playing uba mask atm and loving people doing those things > <  


Also. Welder mask skill works