Dimir Charm

[xouman]

Choose one - Counter target sorcery spell;

Best against Storm, so-so against control and pretty useless against most of the field.


or destroy target creature with power 2 or less;

Destroy confidants, thalias, trygons, mom, most wizards, revokers, cobras...


or look at the top three cards of target player's library, then put one back and the rest into that player's graveyard.

Card disadvantage, but gets quality, or it's similar to time walk in some scenarios. Great with welder.


What do you think? Seems playable, but there are better options imho.

[Onslaught]

I don't know how good it is yet, but this is exactly the kind of thing I like to toss in x1 to a Snapcaster deck. Seems really fun at the very least...

[MaximumCDawg]

I think this is another example of Wizards making very strong cards as answers rather than as threats.  It's a safe way for them to creep power without upsetting the ox cart too much.

In particular, Dimir Charm seems as good as Izzit Charm.  It does basically the same things: kill a small dude, conditionally counter a spell, and lastly filter your draw.  Izzet Charm probably kills 90% of what Dimir Charm would, so that ability is a wash; the most important spells to counter (Tinker? Yawg?) are sorceries.  The last ability on Izzet is probably better when it comes to using it on yourself, but Dimir gives you the option of fatesealing to lock your opponent down for one or two turns to end the game.  So.... deck dependent.

Ultimately I feel like this gives UB access to Izzet Charm lite, which is awesome.

[Twaun007]

This card seems awful for vintage. I'm going to give it a score on a scale from 1 to 10 as.....  "not playable."

There's cards already in existence that do what this does better. 

[Daenyth]

I like it a lot.

[The Atog Lord]

I don't think this will see much Vintage play. Probably none at all, unless Dark Confidant becomes very popular and non-red decks need a better answer to him. Overall, it doesn't do anything against MUD decks, whereas Izzet Charm actually does something. The fact that this doesn't even stop Jace, unlike Izzet Charm, means that this card is very poor. The final ability is nearly useless as well.

[A.-1.]

This card seems awful for vintage. I'm going to give it a score on a scale from 1 to 10 as.....  "not playable."

There's cards already in existence that do what this does better. 

Agreed.

Mode One - Envelop is better if your meta is infested with combo.
Mode Two - If you don't have access to red, Doom Blade or any number of other options are better.
Mode Three - If you want to blank topdeck tutors, Shadow of Doubt is better.

[Wagner]

This card seems awful for vintage. I'm going to give it a score on a scale from 1 to 10 as.....  "not playable."

There's cards already in existence that do what this does better. 

Agreed.

Mode One - Envelop is better if your meta is infested with combo.
Mode Two - If you don't have access to red, Doom Blade or any number of other options are better.
Mode Three - If you want to blank topdeck tutors, Shadow of Doubt is better.

That's not good argumentation.
Of course it's not going to be completely better than 3 different cards, none of the charms are. The point of playing this is having the choice and of running only 1 card instead of the 3 you named.

That said, I don't think it's good enough either, the last mode is really too weak.

[A.-1.]

I agree with you there and should have elaborated.

Izzet Charm is playable because all three modes are similar versions of already playable cards. None of the modes are overpowered, but with all three combined, it makes for a solid card.

The point of my post was that Dimir Charm's three modes mirror three unplayable cards. Envelop, Doom Blade, and Shadow of Doubt no longer see play. The card doesn't suddenly become playable when you combine three marginally useful abilities.

[Wagner]

I agree with you there and should have elaborated.

Izzet Charm is playable because all three modes are similar versions of already playable cards. None of the modes are overpowered, but with all three combined, it makes for a solid card.

The point of my post was that Dimir Charm's three modes mirror three unplayable cards. Envelop, Doom Blade, and Shadow of Doubt no longer see play. The card doesn't suddenly become playable when you combine three marginally useful abilities.

Better, and agreed, if first mode also countered instants or artifacts and 3rd mode was a 2 card Impulse, then maybe, but as is, not a chance.

[TheWhiteDragon]

I like the "charm cycle" in general.  Better effects than the 1 color charms (hearth charm anyone?), but more playable than the 3 color charms (crosis charm who?).  Of this cycle, I think the best has been rakdos charm.  Kill and artifact/exile a graveyard are the most versatile/powerful effects in vintage on a charm I think.  The last ability is somewhat craptacular to offset the better first two abilities, but it is often a lightning bolt to the dome to finish off an opponent.  I've won a few games where my horde went in unblocked to let my opponent swing for lethal - only to take 4+ in the nuts.  Really nifty against stupid warrens storms too.

If this countered an instant, I think it would be better as it could counter a counterspell or EoT draw spell - or the other charms, which would make sense.  As is, it's decent, but not fantastic.

[Oath of Happy]

This card can't even counter instants? What crap

[MaximumCDawg]

I agree with you there and should have elaborated.

Izzet Charm is playable because all three modes are similar versions of already playable cards. None of the modes are overpowered, but with all three combined, it makes for a solid card.

The point of my post was that Dimir Charm's three modes mirror three unplayable cards. Envelop, Doom Blade, and Shadow of Doubt no longer see play. The card doesn't suddenly become playable when you combine three marginally useful abilities.

The last ability can also be used as a mini Diabolic Visions, though, so that's something.  You actually get four "modes" out of this one.

[Wagner]

I agree with you there and should have elaborated.

Izzet Charm is playable because all three modes are similar versions of already playable cards. None of the modes are overpowered, but with all three combined, it makes for a solid card.

The point of my post was that Dimir Charm's three modes mirror three unplayable cards. Envelop, Doom Blade, and Shadow of Doubt no longer see play. The card doesn't suddenly become playable when you combine three marginally useful abilities.

The last ability can also be used as a mini Diabolic Visions, though, so that's something.  You actually get four "modes" out of this one.

More like a targetted bad Strategic Planning. Visions lets you put cards back on top.

[MaximumCDawg]

That's true, but I think the comparison is favorable.  Strategic Planning is potentially better than Diabolic Visions, since the graveyard is halfway into play in Vintage, and you can dump irrelevant cards for digging.

In fact, if you're running a full compliment of Snappys or Welders, binning 2 of your top 3 is not a terrible thing.

[Nydaeli]

If they ever let us play with 4 Scroll again, I could see running this as a 1-of to blow up Confidants and Welders and stuff.

[serracollector]

This also counters burning wish, which seems to be growing.

[psyburat]

Many of the charms from this block seem to have two main archetypes that they show utility against.  Izzet Charm is the Fish/Blue charm, Rakdos is the Shops/Dredge charm, etc.  Dimir seems to be the Storm/Fish charm, and unfortunately both of those archetypes are poorly represented at this time.  Someday, maybe.

[Samoht]

This also counters burning wish, which seems to be growing.

it does? i see it being relevant in one tournament in the past months since its unrestriction. Did I miss anything?

[TheWhiteDragon]

This also counters burning wish, which seems to be growing.

it does? i see it being relevant in one tournament in the past months since its unrestriction. Did I miss anything?

I believe smemnenmnmnen just took down a sizable tourney with a burning long deck.  Swept like 3 people and took top prize.  I'd say that defines it as the top tier archetype to gun for until they unrestrict trinisphere to offset the raw power of this menace.

[covetousrat]

Burning Long won three tournaments in December:  The Hanau, the Milano, and the Team Serious Open.