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Author Topic: Need lots of help: Back into vintage  (Read 4407 times)
Lgco16
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« on: January 08, 2013, 10:33:29 am »

Well here goes nothing. I hope to get some friendly feedback thats not negativity. So here is what i am starting off with. I have not played a game of vintage since 1998.
This is all my own and i know it is flawed. I could really use some help and wanted to play something colorful and fun.
My deck and thoughts:

Artifacts:          Instants              Creature
1 black lotus                  1 ancenstral recall     4 dwarven miner
5 mox                            1 Brainstorm            4 magus of the moon
1 chrome Mox                4  Izzet Charm          1 Blazing Archon
4 ensnaring bridge         1 Mystical Tutor
1 sol ring                       1 Vampiric Tutor

Enchantment      Sorcery            Land:
4 Oath of Druids            3 Preordain              4 city of brass
                                   4 Thoughtseize         4 Forbidden Orchard
                                   1 Time Walk             4
                                   1 Timetwister
                                   1 Wheel of Fortune
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covetousrat
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« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2013, 10:42:51 am »

... You own power 9? WTF lol... You can basically build any deck in Vintage except  Drain, Bazaar and Workshop. Give the new Burning Long deck a try. A good use of all your power9 with Oath. GL
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Wagner
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« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2013, 10:55:54 am »

I like that list, you can Oath into Magus of the Moon and lock yourself out of the game with your non-basics lands Razz
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Lgco16
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« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2013, 10:59:29 am »

Well here goes nothing. I hope to get some friendly feedback thats not negativity. So here is what I am starting off with. I have not played a game of vintage since 1998.
This is all my own and I know it is flawed. I could really use some help and wanted to play something colorful and fun.
My deck and thoughts:

Artifacts:          Instants              Creature
1 black lotus                  1 ancenstral recall     4 dwarven miner
5 mox                            1 Brainstorm            4 magus of the moon
1 chrome Mox                4  Izzet Charm          1 Blazing Archon
4 ensnaring bridge         1 Mystical Tutor
1 sol ring                       1 Vampiric Tutor

Enchantment      Sorcery            Land:
4 Oath of Druids            3 Preordain              4 city of brass
                                   4 Thoughtseize         4 Forbidden Orchard
                                   1 Time Walk             4 Gemstone Mine
                                   1 Timetwister           1 Island
                                   1 Wheel of Fortune    3 rishadan Port
                                                                   1 Stripmine
............................. ............................. ............................. ..........
this has not seen a single game, again this is my first crack at this since 98.
my thoughts:
1) I feel like I'm between oath and prison(stax)
2) izzet charm is sometimes better than spell pierce however, the x2color casting cost is tough. But it helps get rid of creatures ie: bobs, spirits, relic warder
    it also helps filter and could help dwindle cards in your hand for ensnaring bridge.
3)too many crappy utility creatures for oath, however, dwarven miner seems good somehow, and almost more consistent. It draws the FOW from opponents hand
4) ensnaring bridge???hmm, am I missing something with embargo? with portcullis? with rising waters? with equilibrium? with dampning engine? with nev's disk
5)rashidan port seems too situational, and based on my build, ghost quarter is almost a strip mine with options?
6) is black vise too slow and not effective I can't tell with out playing?
7) and what is good main board card for against reanimator/show &tell? are there better options than the abyss or drop of honey or tarriff?
8) does any one have a vintage build with land equilibrium??
9) does anyone have a build with eladamri's vineyard or magus of the vineyard??
10) Maybe moltensteel dragon should be magus of the moon?
............................. ............................. ......................
well those are all my born again thoughts S.O.S
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rmn
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« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2013, 11:03:18 am »

So it looks like the strategy is to use lots of mana denial, prevent them from attacking with ensnaring bridge/Blazing Archon, and then eventually run then over?

1) I don't think you have a very good win condition.  Blazing Archon may go the distance, but you have no way to remove the opponent's creatures.  I would like to see you add Vault/Key or even Leyline/Helm or Painter/Grindstone.  Then you can win without attacking.  The latter combo is half Oathable also.

2) Dwarven Miner and Magus both have the property that they are unnecessary in multiples.  Furthermore, they are antisynergistic-- Dwarven Miner can't destroy a basic mountain.  You don't need four of each.  In fact, as cool as Dwarven Miner is, I would say you should cut them entirely and instead run Wasteland and Crucible, since this is free while Dwarven Miner is expensive.

3) You should either add Force of Will or more hand denial (duress?) for early protection.

4) You should probably add Demonic Tutor.

5) You should add some way to deal with artifacts and creatures.  You have a 5c mana base, so this shouldn't be too hard.  Izzet Charm is good but can't remove a Smokestack or Golem.

6) I think you should remove Timetwister and Wheel of Fortune.  Your opponent will more often get more value out of it than you.  It is also bad with Ensnaring Bridge, if you draw seven and pass the turn.

Hopefully that will get you started?
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Prospero
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« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2013, 11:12:36 am »

You have a great collection to start off with, which will be a tremendous asset to you as you play Vintage.  That's excellent news.

Later today Iron Chef is going to be posting the NEV Invitational deck lists.  I would give Greg Fenton's Oath list a serious look, as I think it's a strong strategy. 

There are a lot of great cards out there that might not be strong enough to see play in Vintage anymore.  I have a host of cards that I wish I could play with again, but can't really if I want to stay competitive.  TMD has its ups and downs, but there are some great assets here for you to help get you back into Vintage, learning, and winning.  Many members of the community will be there with strong advice to help get you back in.

Good luck.
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xouman
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« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2013, 11:21:06 am »

How many money are you going to invest? assuming you own all those cards, how many proxies can you play?

I agree that burning long seems the best idea starting from those cards. Otherwise I'd play Griselband oath or maniac laboratory oath (with ensnaring bridges lol!).

BTW magus of the moon does not transform non-basic lands into basic mountains. Actually, they are non-basic mountains, so dwarven miner can still blow them. If you are insterested in monored manadenial there is a thread (quite abandoned): http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=41360.0


I have heard of unpowered oath decks with null rods/chalices in the old times, but never featuring magus of dwarven miner. I really believe that's not the best way to play oath neither mana denial.

Stax is a great archetype, but you would have to invest a good money on MWS's and other cards...
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