Can burn work

[Protoaddict]

Burn is a deck I started questioning recently, as of it if is vintage viable or not.

Pros:
Consistent
Fast
The deck does not have any lynchpin spells that have to resolve, making it better against counters
The deck really preys on decks that over abuse the life as a resource concept (common in vintage)
The deck does not need to put everything on the stack so it is not weak to storm answers
The life loss can disrupt strategies like oath as you can stop a grizzlebrand activation
No one plays lifegain in vintage seriously save for some odd scavenging oozes
Many decks are not prepared for something like it

Cons:
Predictable
Shallow
Easily hated on if someone wanted to side for it

I actually think the deck is well positioned right now. It has a consistent turn 3 clock, and even a turn 2 clock with a first turn mox or lotus. I thought up the following list, based on what sees play in legacy with come concessions to vintage (less creatures, more dredge proportionality).


4 goblin guide
4 Keldon marauders
4 Mogg fanatic
4 vexing devil

4 lightning bolt
4 chain lightning
4 lava spike
4 rift bolt
4 fireblast
4 black vice

1 black lotus
1 mox ruby
18 mountain

Sideboard
4 Smash to smithereenes
1 Sol ring
2 Shattering spree
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Searing Blaze

May not be optimal but this is off the top of my head. Basically the deck wants to just win as fast as it can,mostly not interacting when it does not have too, because most people just are not going to be as fast as you as consistently.

For creatures the selection is pretty obvious. I went with mogg fanatic, which is traditonally less powerful than other options, mostly because he can remove bridges, and then other 1 toughness blockers as needed, which should be rare but its an option. If the game goes to turn 3 he is the damage equivalent of a bolt.

For burn its just the traditional suite, nothing fancy, just the most efficient stuff. I am not sure if they work in this format, and if they dont obviously there are other cards that can sub in, but black vice seems like it might be a worth while card to play. Some games it may get nothing, some games its going to give you 5+ damage for 1 mana.

Sideboard skews heavy towards artifact hate just because red is good at it. Smash to smithereens is just awesome, since it removed spheres and such but still propels you forward. Shattering spree is just to diversify mana costs for hate. The sol ring is actually a card i find to be a real good answer against spheres. There is some room with the vices and marauders to some times use the extra mana as well. COTV is pretty much strictly to be played at 0 for moxen if you are on the play and need it. It may be the weakest link in the SB to be honest, you may just want to run REB instead.

Lastly searing blaze is an amazing card against hatebears or delver or whatever, must like shattering spree.

Do people think this could work? Any inclusions I am not thinking about?

[Smmenen]

A shockingly well thought out post given the subject matter, but I think you'll find a number of practical difficulties.   As fast as Burn can be at a goldfish rate, it only takes a minimal amount of disruption to slow it down by a turn or more -- usually more than enough for common Vintage decks to win the game first with a variety of combo finishes (Tinker/Time Vault, etc). 

Still, I wish you the best, and hope to see your deck in a top 8 somewhere. 

[Vennie]

So long as workshops stays a very big part of the metagame a chalice @1 ruins your day since it counters 28 spells in this list deck.

[serracollector]

I had a buddy who was trying burn but we went with the mad disruption of Magus of the Moon/Blood moon.

4 x Magus
3 x Bloodmoon
4 x bolt
3 x Shrapnel Blast
4 x Galvanic Blast
4 x Vexing Devil
2 x Thunderous Wrath
2 x Fireblast
5 x Moxen
1 x Crypt
1 x Lotus
1 x Sol Ring
1 x Mana Vault
3 x Sensies Diving Top
4 x Ancient Tomb
4 x Great Furnace
10 x Mountain
2 x Solemn Simulcram

Everything sans bolt does 4-5 damage.  The goal was a turn 1-2 Bloodmoon, and from their just burn their face off in 4 turns or less.  Its actually been pretty descent, using tops to find wat we need, and solemns to reach Metalcraft sooner, and provide blockers for early goyfs.  Black Vises might be another option espeically helping with metalcraft for galvanic, but the problem is drawn late they do nill.  Personally would just rather have more burn at that pt etc.

Good luck!

[rmn]

You should be using Barbarian Ring.

[Wagner]

Straight burn does not generally work, you have to be a bit more clever about it and aim for a win on turn 5-6 instead of 3. I find the best burn spell is always Pyrostatic Pillar, very few decks will take less than 6 damage from it if you land it in the first 3 turns, and it still does the job afterwards.

Grim Lavamancer is also much better than Mogg Fanatic when not goldfishing, again, as it gives you reach on the longer game and will trade VS Golem and Fish creatures which you can't always race.

[Protoaddict]

Pyrostatic makes sense, though I do wonder if it would help your opponent race you more than it helps you race them. Being an enchantment also opens you up to cards you would not normally be weak against.

The other card I completely forgot for this list, and one that, especially in vintage in a deck with only basics should play, is price of progress. It will draw a counter more often than not but if they dont counter it you probably just won the game.

I dont like the bloodmoon plan, if only because at that point its not a burn deck, its just a sorta bad TMWA. If we dilute what wins us the game we are just slowing our own clock, and to support the bloodmoon plan you need to play 7+ moon effects and then ramp cards that dont do damage that you normally would not run.

Also wondering if mental misstep has a place, if only to draw out other missteps. You go to GG, they Misstep, you misstep in response. It is not the most efficient card to damage ratio, but at the same time you can force your opponents hand and the clock much faster.

[tito del monte]

Re: Chalice

You could potentially mitigate tha slightly by aiming for a Cavern of Souls friendliy creature-base. That would probably mean losing Vexing Devil and slowing the deck somewhat, but the trade off uncouterability might be worth it. You could go all gobilin (Fanatic, guide, something else?), all human (Grim Lavamancer, Ash Zealot, Magus of the moon, maybe even Confidant?) or hey maybe even all elemental (Kiln Fiend, Tunnel Ignus, Ball Lightning).

I've also seen Pyrokinesis is getting some Legacy play - any love for that? Certainly if you're facing Chalice it helps diversify your mana costs and means you could pitch spells that are shut off by Chalice in a pinch.

EDIT: you can add Delver to the list of humans. Would make losing Goblin Guide less of an issue.

[Protoaddict]

If trying to dodge chalice, I think diversifying my CMCs would be a better idea. Running cavern would dilute the efficiency of the lists creatures, open it up to wastelands, and be mostly useless in casting most of my spells. Honestly I think Crash may be potentially be a strong sideboard option for 3 mana or one land.

I've fidgeted with the list a bit after a few test games. The deck is pretty damn strong to be blunt when you consider what it is trying to do. I have decided to modify it a bit and wound up with the following:

4 goblin guide
4 keldon marauders
4 Mogg fanatic
4 vexing devil

4 lightning bolt
4 chain lightning
4 lava spike
4 rift bolt
4 fireblast
3 price of progress
1 volcanic fallout

1 black lotus
1 mox ruby
18 mountians

Sb
1 sol ring
4 smash to smithereens
1 shattering spree
1 Crash
4 faerie macabre
2 volcanic fallout
2 searing blaze

I felt that the volcanic fallouts needed to be in the deck, they are very strong against a number of lists, including dredge which I actually think is the scariest matchup for us because its just as fast and non interactive. I killed one POP from the maindeck, its a good card when your on the play but a better card on the draw, but you really want to be on the play. 4 damage on turn 2 is respectable but 6 on turn 3 is better, so you would really rather have other stuff up until that point.

I'm not sold on the Faerie Macabre as grave hate yet, not that they dont work but I am not sure i want to bother. Dredge can be handled with vexing devils, moggs, and volcanics, other grave based strategies may be too slow to begin with.

I'm also on the fence as to if this deck needs anymore ramp or possibly wheel of fortune. You will almost certainly get more from the draw 7, but your opponents card quality will be much better.

[serracollector]

Surgical Extraction>>>>> Faerie Macabre
3-4 x Grafdiggers Cage needs to be in that 75.

Otherwise nice.

[Protoaddict]

I think I should rephrase this, is grave hate at all worth playing?

Typically the issue is not what grave hate to use but the fact that you have to use a certain amount of it or you may as well be using none.

Dredge is answerable in this list without dedicated answers (sacable dudes, volcanic fallout in response to FKZ)
The deck is probably faster than Yawgs will come online
Using Grafdiggers opens the deck up to artifact hate, otherwise it actually may have some VCA against some decks.

[A.-1.]

Against those decks where you have VCA, aren't you already winning those games? If the Dredge matchup is not as favorable, you might as well run some Dredge hate even if it not considered the 'conventional' amount of hate.

Is Simian Spirit Guide or Lotus Petal worth it? Or does that just result in more mulligans and Fireblast occasionally being dead?

[Lurker101]

You mentioned including mental misstep but wouldn't REB/pyroblast be more useful? Also Pulverize seems like a possible sideboard candidate. It would wipe the board of Chalices, spheres, and whatever other artifacts are in play  for the cost of sacrificing two mountains. Lastly, maybe a one of Jaya Ballard to get utility out of things like excess mountains and other chaff in hand. She also provides fuel for lavamancer.

[Protoaddict]

REB and Pyro cost mana. Mana is at a premium in this list since you want to maximize damage for mana and win as fast as you can, so I am not sure just how useful REB could be.

Since you are playing a LOT of 1 CC cards, its almost a good thing if they try to misstep you. Turn 1 GG, they misstep and pay 2 life, you then misstep in response. They are down 4 life by turn one, which means that turn 2 you can already threaten the game against someone who have a greedy deck that spends a lot of life..

The other reason I like Misstep lately is because If you do play hate in this deck, its probabaly going to be grifdiggers, and misstep protects it from misstep.

Pulverize is good, and great against shops, but it may be lacking against other lists. Not sure if the power against shops outweights the utility of crash, since if you play pulverize you are going to have to side out Fireblast. It is worth testing for sure.