Duskmantle Seer

[serracollector]

A 4/4 flying 2 sided bob.  Time to start playing 4 portent.dec?  Its an uber clock, a draw engine, and a way to do extra damage to opponent IF you can build a deck around messing with opponents top card (i.e. Portent and the like).  Obv has weaknesses as it "helps" opponents draw cards, can be a wrecking ball if they get a jace/top in play (I personally think they would bounce it with jace....) and such.  Being a 4/4 flyer though I think offesets this as your gonna be beating face, while they are losing life.  I personally think its viable in the right build, but guess we will have to see.

[President Skroob]

There's a reason that Howling Mine is a bad card. You invest a card in it and your opponent gets to draw first, so you start way behind.

Anything you do to overcome that falls into the "being cute" category, and being cute is usually a lot worse than being good in Vintage.

Also... mythic? Really?

[Vennie]

Uhm i think u just misread the card. All players get the extra card in your upkeep. So in that sense it's waay better then howling mine because if the card is anything sorcery speed you get the advantage of being the first perso able to use the extra card.

[serracollector]

Yea I was actually just getting back on to mention that.  It is not a howling mine effect as you always get the first chance to use the cards gotten, and also it reveals the card giving you information on your opponents deck as well as being a 4/4 flyer for 4 mana.  I really think this card is good and has viable t1 merit.

[xouman]

In a deck with hard permission seems really playable, as long as you can keep youself high on life. I think the best comparison is against Jace, not a bad card:

Jace dies to a bolt and attack damage, while this card dies to swords and creature hate. Jace is nullified by revoker/pithing.

Costs are similar. Probably second is a bit easier than , but thorn/thalia affect jace alone.

Seer puts a clock of 5 turns at most, probably less because of the life lost because of revealed cards, while jace is slower.

Jace gets rid of BSC and other big creatures; Seer can safely block bears.

Jace kills another jace and it's killed in the same way. That does not apply to seer.

Most of all, jace gets card advantage and quality only to you, not the opponent, even the turn it's played. This is the best argument for jace, but i don't know if it's definitive.

[AmbivalentDuck]

Since I don't see it mentioned... Many brown builds are "suicide brown." They rely on cards like Ancient Tomb that don't play well with losing something like 2 dmg/turn. That first swing for 6 damage could actually be extremely significant. At the same time, you're amplifying the impact of any damage they got through with Lodestones in the early game.

[serracollector]

Yes, i was going to say vs MUD, especially Kuldotha MUD where the AVG CMC is like 4, this is a viable 8 damage + a turn.  OFC tho if you get any 4cmc spell off vs MUD you "should" be ahead in the game already getting past their denial plans.

[President Skroob]

Ah, apparently I misread.

I still believe that this card is terrible. Everything I said about being cute versus being good still stands.

He costs 4.

[AmbivalentDuck]

Ah, apparently I misread.

I still believe that this card is terrible. Everything I said about being cute versus being good still stands.

He costs 4.

The same thing was said about Jace TMS. I don't think the power level on this is even close, but we've been caught off guard before.