Fastest Gold-Fish decks in Vintage

[tribet]

Many of our Vintage decks can pull a T1 win though they haven't been primarily designed for this sole purpose. Please post links or lists of the fastest goldfish decks you can think of (using our current Vintage card pool and B&R).

Vintage only. Pure goldfishing, no disrupt nor metagame considerations. T0 or T1 kill only and regularly. I'm not too sure where "regularly" fits? 51% of the time?. Think:
- Combo decks (read: Oath, S&T, Tinker, TimeVault, Flash...)
- System decks (read: Belcher, Storm, Dredge, Lich's Mirror, Second Sunrise...).
- Prison decks (read: Stax... regular T0 or T1 Chalice 0 + Golem would be considered as a win...)
- ...

I'ld like to think such decks would include cards like Serum Powder, Gemstone Cavern, Leyline of Anticipation... Make me dream!


For those posting lists:
- Post decklist only along with a DECK NAME
- Use good formatting
- Be concise (you shouldn't need to explain the combo or card choices)
- If the deck was played in a Tournament, let us know number of players & deck ranking
- You may indicate rough subjective kill%

For those commenting:
- You must refer to the DECK NAME only
- Do not quote or paste full deck list when commenting about it
- Be concise
- Try to score objectively the deck from 0 to 100 (0 = not convinced. 100 = super convinced)
- You may edit your old scores as time goes and as more techs pop up


I'm interested to see the builds, techs, combos, discovering unknown, unused or obscur cards,... I DON'T WANT THIS THREAD TO TURN INTO A STATISTICAL FIGHT & DEBATE

[Tha Gunslinga]

ICBM's Cyclotron fits the bill here.  I think we were goldfishing about 50-75% turn 1 kills with this.  It was insane, but wasn't really worth bringing to a tournament.

New Berlin 13.07.2008

- 37 players
5. Owen Turtenwald

Maindeck (60):
Spells (52):

1 Black Lotus
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Memory Jar
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
2 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Necropotence
1 Night's Whisper
4 Street Wraith
3 Tendrils of Agony
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Mind's Desire
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Ponder
2 Repeal
1 Timetwister
1 Tinker
1 Windfall
4 Manamorphose
4 Rite of Flame
2 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Wheel of Fortune

Lands (8):

4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine


Sideboard (15):

3 Hurkyl's Recall
3 Orim's Chant
2 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Tormod's Crypt
4 Xantid Swarm
1 Yixlid Jailer

[tribet]

I'm yet to try opening hands and do any sort of testings but this would be my updated version of your deck:

tribet's 5CCyclotron

4 Serum Powder
4 Leyline of Anticipation

5 Moxen
1 Black Lotus
1 LED
1 Sol Ring
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
2 Chrome Mox
2 Mox Opal
4 Manamorphose
4 Dark Ritual
3 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Hurkyl's Recall

3 Voltaic Key
1 Time Vault
3 Tendrils of Agony

1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Windfall
1 TimeTwister
1 Mind's Desire
1 Balance
1 DT
1 VT
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Grim Tutor
1 Night's Whisper
1 Imperial Seal
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Memory Jar
1 Acall
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Necropotence

Is there a quick and light MTG program I can download to test opening hands samples?

Voltaic Key doesn't seem too bad on its own as it can help ramping but more important as a colour fixing.
Balance T0 would be considered as a "win" if you manage to discard opponent's hand T0 and have some sort of board advantage. Your top-decks should be better. (careful against Dredge).
I thought about including Mind Twist as well, but I lacked room and it is a bit more mana intensive.
Necropotence seems super juicy with Leyline of Anticipation!

[tribet]

Ideally, when you're on the draw, you'ld like to go-off before your opponent first the land drop and basically go off during your opponent's upkeep. Since players don't draw T1, does it mean they don't have an upkeep T1?

[John Cox]

Ideally, when you're on the draw, you'ld like to go-off before your opponent first the land drop and basically go off during your opponent's upkeep. Since players don't draw T1, does it mean they don't have an upkeep T1?

I'm pretty sure they have an upkeep. I vaguely remember people getting flash kills in legacy with disciple of the vault on opponents turn 0 upkeeps. I think you would want Gitaxian Probe in a modern Cyclotron.

[Smmenen]

Many of our Vintage decks can pull a T1 win though they haven't been primarily designed for this sole purpose. Please post links or lists of the fastest goldfish decks you can think of (using our current Vintage card pool and B&R).

Vintage only. Pure goldfishing, no disrupt nor metagame considerations. T0 or T1 kill only and regularly. I'm not too sure where "regularly" fits? 51% of the time?.

Rogue Hermit Combo: http://www.eternalcentral.com/?p=3544

Definitely fastest goldifsh in Vintage. 

[msg67183]

Many of our Vintage decks can pull a T1 win though they haven't been primarily designed for this sole purpose. Please post links or lists of the fastest goldfish decks you can think of (using our current Vintage card pool and B&R).

Vintage only. Pure goldfishing, no disrupt nor metagame considerations. T0 or T1 kill only and regularly. I'm not too sure where "regularly" fits? 51% of the time?.

Rogue Hermit Combo: http://www.eternalcentral.com/?p=3544

Definitely fastest goldifsh in Vintage. 

... Lol,
I know of 2 people who played this in the same tournament and between the 2 of them they got 1 match win.
I'm not too afraid of this deck becoming apart of my metagame

[Smmenen]

Many of our Vintage decks can pull a T1 win though they haven't been primarily designed for this sole purpose. Please post links or lists of the fastest goldfish decks you can think of (using our current Vintage card pool and B&R).

Vintage only. Pure goldfishing, no disrupt nor metagame considerations. T0 or T1 kill only and regularly. I'm not too sure where "regularly" fits? 51% of the time?.

Rogue Hermit Combo: http://www.eternalcentral.com/?p=3544

Definitely fastest goldifsh in Vintage.  

... Lol,
I know of 2 people who played this in the same tournament and between the 2 of them they got 1 match win.
I'm not too afraid of this deck becoming apart of my metagame

Read the OP.  he didn't ask if its good, just fast.  Look up goldfish.

[tribet]

How do the Leylines work? Do they use the stack? Can I cast spell at the begining of the game during the "Leyline phase" before 1st upkeep?

For example:
- Active Player reveals Leyline of Sanctity and stack it
- No-Active Player (the Combo player) reveals Leyline of Anticipation and stack it
- Leyline of Anticipation resolves first
- Combo player goes off using Leyline of Anticipation while Leyline of Sanctity is still on the Stack

Would that work?

[tribet]

Rogue Hermit Combo: http://www.eternalcentral.com/?p=3544
Definitely fastest goldifsh in Vintage.  

Fastest not yet, T0 is still faster than T1. Would it just be a matter of replacing the 4 Pact of Negation MD with 4 Leyline of Anticipation?

Your list doesn't seem to be able to support Serum Powder, does it make the above Leyline a bit more clumsy?

You didn't list Gemstone Cavern in the potential accelerants? From experience, how does it compare to Chrome Mox? Would a 2/2 split be an attractive option? Any decklists running it?

I like the Summoner's Pacts. Belcher also runs Tinder Wall how come it doesn't run Pact as well?

Do you proxy the deck, shuffle and try sample hands? Or do you use a software?

[ed0]

How do the Leylines work? Do they use the stack? Can I cast spell at the begining of the game during the "Leyline phase" before 1st upkeep?

For example:
- Active Player reveals Leyline of Sanctity and stack it
- No-Active Player (the Combo player) reveals Leyline of Anticipation and stack it
- Leyline of Anticipation resolves first
- Combo player goes off using Leyline of Anticipation while Leyline of Sanctity is still on the Stack

Would that work?

see below, no, no, no.
after muligans are finished the starting player puts all the leylines he wants into play, then the next player does the same. they aren't cast as spells, don't use the stack, can't be countered and you can't play any other cards (that don't have a similar effect, like gemstone caverns) during the leyline drop phase.
the games first turn begins after everyone that wanted to has put their leylines on the battlefield. the first phase of the first turn would be where you could start playing spells with leyline of anticipation.

Rogue Hermit Combo: http://www.eternalcentral.com/?p=3544
Definitely fastest goldifsh in Vintage.  

Fastest not yet, T0 is still faster than T1. Would it just be just a matter of replacing the 4 Pact of Negation MD with 4 Leyline of Anticipation?

Your list doesn't seem to be able to support Serum Powder, does it make the above Leyline a bit more clumsy?

You didn't list Gemstone Cavern in the potential accelerants? From experience, how does it compare to Chrome Mox? Would a 2/2 split be an attractive option? Any decklists running it?

I like the Summoner's Pacts. Belcher also runs Tinder Wall how come it doesn't run Pact as well?

from a goldfish perspective there wouldn't really be much of a difference between a leyline of anticipation and a "normal" Turn 1 win. Anticipation is only good for scenarios where you are playing against an actual opponent, thus are not guaranteed to be on the play.

Gemstone Cavern is a land, so it does not work with the combo if you don't have it in your starting hand.

[John Cox]

How does belcher fit in here? What's it's Turn 1 goldfish rate?

[d8dk32]

How does belcher fit in here? What's it's Turn 1 goldfish rate?

I think it's around 40-50%.
 
There's also that meandeck tendrils thing. In my attempts with it i could push it close to a 70% turn 1 goldfish, but each hand took about a year to think out. I don't claim to be an expert in it by any means. But those lists all had 4 brainstorms, and I can't claim to know how you would replace 3 of them. Gitaxian Probes?

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

ICBM's Cyclotron fits the bill here.  I think we were goldfishing about 50-75% turn 1 kills with this.  It was insane, but wasn't really worth bringing to a tournament.

New Berlin 13.07.2008

- 37 players
5. Owen Turtenwald

Maindeck (60):
Spells (52):

1 Black Lotus
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Memory Jar
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
2 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Necropotence
1 Night's Whisper
4 Street Wraith
3 Tendrils of Agony
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Mind's Desire
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Ponder
2 Repeal
1 Timetwister
1 Tinker
1 Windfall
4 Manamorphose
4 Rite of Flame
2 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Wheel of Fortune

Lands (8):

4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine


Sideboard (15):

3 Hurkyl's Recall
3 Orim's Chant
2 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Tormod's Crypt
4 Xantid Swarm
1 Yixlid Jailer

I wouldn't say it wasn't worth bringing to a tournament. I hit top 2 a few times with it, and top 8 many more. Won 12 force of wills. It  felt more like 50 turn one win at the time. probably higher, but I occasionally opted not turn one to be more resilient turn 2. I remember the deck was so fast I cut to seven lands because SSG was just better. I remember the deck had some hilarious sounding lines such as "well I just play yawgmoth's will for back up here incase he forces night's whisper"

[tribet]

I vaguely remember people getting flash kills in legacy with disciple of the vault on opponents turn 0 upkeeps.

So where does Vintage Affinity seats?

Glimpse of Nature, Hurkyl's Recall, Skullclamp... would certainly help chaining spells. I suppose such decks would also run Cranial Plating as an back-up aggro plan in case the combo fizzles.

Affinity doesn't sounds disgusting at all. I couldn't find any thread on the TMD!

[Justin]

Question - Would generating 40 goblin tokens turn 1 be considered a turn 1 victory for the purpose of this thread? I understand the attack isn't until turn 2, but the work has been done. Thanks!

Edit - 1:47est - That's what I thought. Thanks for the input fellas! Will post a list tomorrow.

[John Cox]

Question - Would generating 40 goblin tokens turn 1 be considered a turn 1 victory for the purpose of this thread? I understand the attack isn't until turn 2, but the work has been done. Thanks!

yes that would be a win

[Samoht]

Question - Would generating 40 goblin tokens turn 1 be considered a turn 1 victory for the purpose of this thread? I understand the attack isn't until turn 2, but the work has been done. Thanks!

yes that would be a win

It's mostly a win. Ratchet Bomb, Powder Keg, and Echoing Truth are all played to some degree.

[Justin]

Belcher (although Ive been calling it RG Ritual since its not reliant on belcher)

Lands-1
1 Taiga
Creatures -8
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Simian Spirit Guide
Search-8
4 Land Grant
4 Burning Wish
Acceleration-35
4 Chrome Mox
8 McSoLoMox
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Vault
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Metamorphose
4 Rite of flame
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Pyretic Ritual
4 Seething Song
Draw - 4
4 Reforge the Soul
Kill - 4
4 Goblin Charbelcher

Sideboard - 15
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Past in flames
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Memory Jar
1 Channel
4 Goblin Welder
4 open slots (probably 4 shattering spree, possibly a hunting pack)

Im not trying to take any credit for this as it was an obvious build, but you can nearly always ramp into reforge the soul, or burning wish->Wheel of fortune until you draw enough hands to get enough mana to belch or fetch empty the warrens for at least 20 tokens if not double that.
Notable Omissions -
Id love the memory jar main, possibly in place of 1 land grant or a pyretic/desperate/seething song
Anyway Its fun to goldfish, draw a ton of hands, and fold to a well timed force of will/flusterstorm, etc.
Hope someone enjoys it!