Budget Green

[John Cox]

This is a pet deck I’ve been trying to make work for a while now and it’s been working well.

//Lands
3 misty rainforest
3 verdant catacombs
4 Forest
4 Gaea's Cradle
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Wasteland
1 stripmine

//Spells
1 Black Lotus
4 Engineered Explosives
4 Mental Misstep
1 Mox Emerald
4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Thorn of Amethyst

//Creatures
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Memnite
4 Vengevine

This may look terrible or amazing depending on your point of view,

A few notes, this is the most unintuitive deck to play. You rarely want to deny your opponents mana in the workshop match. The lands are usually too important to you. The exceptions to this are when they’ve kept greedy hand and you can screw them with a thorn and a wasteland.
Against landstill you generally want to push out whatever clock you can and then waste their man lands.
Against broken blue you auto lose to tinker and are very limited against vault key. Outside of that you’re in a good position. Just push a clock out and attack.

Here’s a sample hand,


Deathrire shaman, deathrite shaman, vengevine, ghostquarter, fetchland, mental misstep, thorn of amethyst,

T1
The turn one play is deathrite shaman; it protects you against dredge and buffers you against workshops.

T2 you’re against grixis
Draw forest
Play forest, another deathrite shaman and the thorn, next turn play vengevine and use ghostquarter.
You can stop yawgmoth’s will shenanigans with shaman; vengevine will keep jace off the table. All you really have to worry about is bolt, key vault, and tinker. Your opponent will be a bit slower in assembling this due to the sphere and you have misstep for the bolt and key

The main problems for this deck are strategies like oath and one card bombs that you would normally answer with force of will in blue decks.

[xouman]

In your example how do you play vengevine in T3? I assume that in t2 you play shaman + thorn using shaman ability, by exiling own fetchland. how do you expect to play vengevine, with opponent's fetchlands?

why 4 EE? moxen, etw tokens, chalices? seems way too narrow.

Survival+vengevine is an aggressive engine, capable of win matches quickly, but is affected by same hate as oath, and it's probably worse.

mana denial can win games for you, but it'll be often not definitive. have you thought of root maze? you win tempo, your wastelands would get more fetchlands in the way and moxen are one turn late.

cradle feels weird. You would get 0 mana lots of times, and you only want x mana for vengevine (assuming you already have at least 2 critters). besides, is a legend, so having 2 in your starting hand is a mess.


I like the idea about making a survival deck, but I'm not sold in those 60 cards. how do every pairing feel?

[John Cox]

In your example how do you play vengevine in T3? I assume that in t2 you play shaman + thorn using shaman ability, by exiling own fetchland. how do you expect to play vengevine, with opponent's fetchlands?

why 4 EE? moxen, etw tokens, chalices? seems way too narrow.

Survival+vengevine is an aggressive engine, capable of win matches quickly, but is affected by same hate as oath, and it's probably worse.

mana denial can win games for you, but it'll be often not definitive. have you thought of root maze? you win tempo, your wastelands would get more fetchlands in the way and moxen are one turn late.

cradle feels weird. You would get 0 mana lots of times, and you only want x mana for vengevine (assuming you already have at least 2 critters). besides, is a legend, so having 2 in your starting hand is a mess.


I like the idea about making a survival deck, but I'm not sold in those 60 cards. how do every pairing feel?

Nothing is set in Stone I'm currently trying Tarmogoyf over survival.
On EE, I had originally had chalice there, but EE is just so much better. The biggest advantage is begin able to destroy oath if I cast it off a shaman and a forest. This makes multiples non-redundant.
Cradle is also really good, especially with memnite. I often get lethal on the board on turn 2 (from survival) because of cradle and memnite. I would never go below 4 cradle. This becomes really apparent when your opponent has waste effects. The main reason for this deck to exist was to have a mono green aggro use for cradle in the workshop meta.

[credmond]

This deck needs more Bazaar + Squee! Squee is awesome with survival. Bazaar + Survival means you can set up plays of 4 x Vengevine

The deck already looks a lot like Oshawa Stompy. For reference and idea mining.

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
4 Null Rod
3 Arrogant Wurm
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
3 Ground Seal
3 Naturalize
4 Root Maze
4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Wild Mongrel
4 Squee, Goblin Nabob

Lands (21):
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
12 Forest
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland

Side Board
1 Arrogant Wurm
1 Ground Seal
3 Hidden Gibbons
1 Naturlaize
4 Oxidize
2 Tracker
3 Xantid Swarm

[John Cox]

That's one direction, Bazaar is problematic because it competes with other turn one drops and I've found squee a bit slow. Root maze (also turn one) is very symmetrical. People have mentioned adding black to me for abrupt decay. Going GW could open up Stone forge mystic, red also has a lot of options.
Food for thought.

[Guli]

I want to see 0 Bazaar and 0 Squee in Green Stompy.


Maybe look into Mayor, it has a seriously fast clock, I can see it work with Root Maze.

[credmond]

That's one direction, Bazaar is problematic because it competes with other turn one drops and I've found squee a bit slow. Root maze (also turn one) is very symmetrical. People have mentioned adding black to me for abrupt decay. Going GW could open up Stone forge mystic, red also has a lot of options.
Food for thought.

Opening hand is 1 bazaar, 1 forest, 1 memnite, 1 rootwalla, 2 vengevine, 1 squee.

Those are all four-ofs so hands that look like that are not unusual.

Play bazaar, play Memnite, tap bazaar, ditch Rootwalla and 2 Vengevines, madness brings Rootwalla into play, 2 vengevine trigger and come into play and deal 8 damage on turn 1 and 10 damage in creatures next turn. Plus you have 2 new cards in hand (survival maybe) and squee can let you set up into more pressure.

Of course you don't have to go Vengevine and Survival in Green Stompy, but Vengevine and Survival have obvious synergies with some measure of Bazaar + Squee.

[psyburat]

Have you considered Burning-Tree Emissary as a way of fueling the Vengevine engine cheaply, as well as creating possible double-threat turns against control decks?  In your initial build, going Emissary into Thorn of Amethyst could be a strong play for a fair deck to attack unfair strategies.  Emissary in multiples is pretty awesome too.

[ed0]

Looking at your decklist and after doing some goldfishing i'm split between suggesting that you are focusing *to much* on survival and *not enough* on survival.

Survival of the Fittest is a toolbox, so why don't you have any tools in your deck aside from the basic Vengevine enablers?
If you don't draw or can't resolve Survival your deck basically does nothing.

At best the deck produces some decent - albeit unprotected - beaters relatively fast with no way to up the pressure further or react to specific new threats.
At worst you never draw Survival or it gets countered so you are playing overcosted beaters without any immediate board impact, while helplessly watching your opponent dominate the board and/or stack riding it out to his certain victory.

Things you should imo consider:

1) Strengthen the toolbox aspect of Survival of the Fittest by adding some one-of creatures you can pitch or retrieve with it. Some older ideas - i'm not really up to date on the best creatures and i don't know your meta - so you can get an idea:
Wonder (to give your beaters some evasion against other creature strategies)
Trygon Predator/Qasali Pridemage (to deal with artifacts and enchantments)
Gaddock Teeg (FoW, Jace, etc. suck)
Aven Mindcensor (backbreaking against any deck that relies on searching/fetching etc.)
... and other answers to things your deck currently struggles with.

2a) Go all in on the Vengevine mechanic by diversifying your discard outlets to lessen your reliance on drawing and resolving Survial - the usual suspects are Wild Mongrel and Aquamoeba - and consider adding cards that allow you to recoup lost resources to keep up the pressure - like Bazaar (new cards) and Squee (discardables).
or
2b) Diversify your decks path to victory by including synergyzing substrategies - like for example Stoneforge Mystic and 1 or two fetchable equipments - that don't rely on being able to discard and play 2 creatures in a turn.

[msg67183]

I had a list thought up that instead of relying on Survival, which without any dudes in hand is a do nothing enchantment, decided to go all in on dudes and beating face. Here was the list:

4 Bazaar
4 City of Brass
4 Undiscovered Paradise
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Riftstone Portal

4 ESG
4 SSG
4 Memnite
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Vengevine
4 Bloodghast
4 Squee
4 Wild Mongrel
4 Burning Tree Emissary
4 Lotleth Troll

[ParisMTG]

this last one is much more agressive, but also highly rely on bazaar in the starting hand.

The objection on Survival being  do nothing enchantment in a deck with 20 creature doesn't seem strong enough for me.
I like the balanced of the initial proposal between aggression and defense, but between the too decks, the comparison is difficult as they rely on different philosophy...

I suggest changing the manabase to
1    Mox Emerald
1    Mox Jet
1    Black Lotus
6    fech
3    Forest
3    Gaea's Cradle
2    Bayou
3    Ghost Quarter
3    Wasteland
1    Strip Mine

and switch 4 EE to Abrupt Decay wich seems to me much more solid in the match again Oath.
Abrupt Decay can also help the mana denial stratégy.

[msg67183]

My list is not reliant on Bazaar in its opener, u drop a turn one Lotleth Troll or Wild Mongrel and you are just as good off.
Troll combined with Bloodghast, Squee, or Rootwalla is insane!

[Guli]

So any progress on this 'green' deck ??

[psyburat]

So any progress on this 'green' deck ??

I have a functional 60 built, tuning it to be a competitive 75 in a Jace-heavy metagame.  I'll supply it when I either run it or give up on it.

[Shax]

Heres mine!

// Lands
    1  Strip Mine
    4 [JGC] Wasteland
    1  Wooded Foothills
    1  Misty Rainforest
    1  Verdant Catacombs
    1  Windswept Heath
    10  Forest

// Creatures
    4  Elvish Scrapper
    4  Elvish Spirit Guide
    4  Tarmogoyf

// Spells
    1  Fastbond
    4  Chalice of the Void
    4  Oxidize
    1  Mox Emerald
    4  Ankh of Mishra
    4  Deglamer
    2  Null Rod
    4 [JGC] Regrowth
    4  Nature's Claim
    1  Black Lotus

// Sideboard
SB: 4  Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 4  Krosan Grip
SB: 4  Choke
SB: 2  Null Rod
SB: 1  Channel

I made a Mono Green deck that plays out like Christmas Beatings. With the addition of Regrowth you will stick your hate card of choice and usually get something to resolve. (Deglamering the opponents Blightsteel)

The Ankh of Mishra's are my idea to stop the new Regrowth Gush decks. Fastbond is so I can play my lands before Ankh of Mishra cripples me, and furthermore get multiple Ankh of Mishra's out faster along with getting enough mana to cast Regrowth on something and replay it. I wanted things that can benefit from Regrowth while not messing me up if I have to use Grafdigger's Cage so I decided Elvish Scrapper being a beater and reccurable artifact destroyer was good enough. It could instead be Hidden Gibbons if you want or Scavenging Ooze. Scavenging Ooze giving reach on your life total against Tendrils while feeding into the 'Christmas Beatings' concept. Hidden Gibbons to try and get a early lock with Anhk/Chalice/Rod then finish them off.

[msg67183]

Heres mine!

// Lands
    1  Strip Mine
    4 [JGC] Wasteland
    1  Wooded Foothills
    1  Misty Rainforest
    1  Verdant Catacombs
    1  Windswept Heath
    10  Forest

// Creatures
    4  Elvish Scrapper
    4  Elvish Spirit Guide
    4  Tarmogoyf

// Spells
    1  Fastbond
    4  Chalice of the Void
    4  Oxidize
    1  Mox Emerald
    4  Ankh of Mishra
    4  Deglamer
    2  Null Rod
    4 [JGC] Regrowth
    4  Nature's Claim
    1  Black Lotus

// Sideboard
SB: 4  Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 4  Krosan Grip
SB: 4  Choke
SB: 2  Null Rod
SB: 1  Channel

I made a Mono Green deck that plays out like Christmas Beatings. With the addition of Regrowth you will stick your hate card of choice and usually get something to resolve. (Deglamering the opponents Blightsteel)

Seems great against Shops!
I think it folds horribly to Dredge though, only 4 Cages as hate is too light.

[psyburat]

I made a Mono Green deck that plays out like Christmas Beatings. With the addition of Regrowth you will stick your hate card of choice and usually get something to resolve. (Deglamering the opponents Blightsteel)

The Ankh of Mishra's are my idea to stop the new Regrowth Gush decks. Fastbond is so I can play my lands before Ankh of Mishra cripples me, and furthermore get multiple Ankh of Mishra's out faster along with getting enough mana to cast Regrowth on something and replay it. I wanted things that can benefit from Regrowth while not messing me up if I have to use Grafdigger's Cage so I decided Elvish Scrapper being a beater and reccurable artifact destroyer was good enough. It could instead be Hidden Gibbons if you want or Scavenging Ooze. Scavenging Ooze giving reach on your life total against Tendrils while feeding into the 'Christmas Beatings' concept. Hidden Gibbons to try and get a early lock with Anhk/Chalice/Rod then finish them off.

It sounds like you have Gush and Workshops covered.  What is your plan against Landstill, Bomberman, and BUG Fish?  Those three make up arguably half the metagame in the northeast, and a deck that focuses on an eighth of the metagame seems non-competitive.

[Guli]

I made a Mono Green deck that plays out like Christmas Beatings. With the addition of Regrowth you will stick your hate card of choice and usually get something to resolve. (Deglamering the opponents Blightsteel)

The Ankh of Mishra's are my idea to stop the new Regrowth Gush decks. Fastbond is so I can play my lands before Ankh of Mishra cripples me, and furthermore get multiple Ankh of Mishra's out faster along with getting enough mana to cast Regrowth on something and replay it. I wanted things that can benefit from Regrowth while not messing me up if I have to use Grafdigger's Cage so I decided Elvish Scrapper being a beater and reccurable artifact destroyer was good enough. It could instead be Hidden Gibbons if you want or Scavenging Ooze. Scavenging Ooze giving reach on your life total against Tendrils while feeding into the 'Christmas Beatings' concept. Hidden Gibbons to try and get a early lock with Anhk/Chalice/Rod then finish them off.

It sounds like you have Gush and Workshops covered.  What is your plan against Landstill, Bomberman, and BUG Fish?  Those three make up arguably half the metagame in the northeast, and a deck that focuses on an eighth of the metagame seems non-competitive.

But does mono green have the cards to cover all those match ups?

[msg67183]

Null Rod, Revoker, Deathrite Shaman, Dismember, I can probably name more but these were off the top of my head.

[psyburat]

But does mono green have the cards to cover all those match ups?

Green is about threat density.  The deck presented has more ways to kill artifacts than to win the game.  If blue knows they only have to counter Tarmogoyf to cut your outs to Gray Ogre and Mons Goblin Raiders then you'll be in trouble.

[John Cox]

But does mono green have the cards to cover all those match ups?

Green is about threat density.  The deck presented has more ways to kill artifacts than to win the game.  If blue knows they only have to counter Tarmogoyf to cut your outs to Gray Ogre and Mons Goblin Raiders then you'll be in trouble.

4X Regrowth helps that  

[Guli]

I haven't checked, but are there any really good  hardcore green cards that could only be cast in a mono green. If not wizard should print some

The new Insect is interesting against those landstill and bomberman decks.

How about Thrun's as the finisher, at least that can not be countered.

This would make 2 uncounterable solid cards already.

[psyburat]

I have a functional 60 built, tuning it to be a competitive 75 in a Jace-heavy metagame.  I'll supply it when I either run it or give up on it.

Gave up on it.  Here's my functional 75, which has not been optimized:

Oshawa Stompy 2K13

4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Squee, Goblin Nabob
4 Vengevine
3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Myr Superion
1 Viridian Corrupter

3 Null Rod
3 Root Maze
3 Survival of the Fittest

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald

5 Forest
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Wasteland
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Strip Mine

SB:
4 Faerie Macabre
3 Dismember
3 Nature's Claim
2 Mental Misstep
1 Life from the Loam
1 Null Rod
1 Root Maze

[xouman]

I'm really curious about root maze. I haven't ever played it but have thought of it in tempo decks, or maybe unpowered oath. How does it affect yourself? Dredge probably loses one full turn or even more. And MUD? It's really affected if you are not playing it T1 on the play?

Thanks for sharing your list!

[Shax]

But does mono green have the cards to cover all those match ups?

Green is about threat density.  The deck presented has more ways to kill artifacts than to win the game.  If blue knows they only have to counter Tarmogoyf to cut your outs to Gray Ogre and Mons Goblin Raiders then you'll be in trouble.

If you are having problems with certain matchups Hidden Guerrillas and Hidden Gibbons can be easy swaps for Elvish Scrapper and Oxidize. Gibbons being able to take a Lightning Bolt and still swing, and Guerrillas being Lodestone Golem Power/Toughness and it has Trample. I mentioned earlier Scavenging Ooze is useful for Creature based matchups and Dredge plus it can stop Bomberman's combo. I would swap the Krosan Grip out for Ooze. Krosan Grip can stop Oath of Druids, so remember that if you find yourself with alot creatures at the time they cast Oath. Wasteland with Regrowth should be enough to stop Oath decks so that Gibbons can come and finish them off. Because even if Oath gives you a token, chances are they won't have enough mana to cast Oath next turn. (Chalice, Null Rod)