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Author Topic: Vintage Playable Enchantments  (Read 7726 times)
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« on: March 25, 2013, 04:36:15 pm »

It appears that the new card for You Make the Card 4 will be an enchantment.  This is probably not exciting for anyone who was hoping for something Vintage playable.  HOWEVER, I think something creative and awesome could still come out of this.  So create an enchantment that could potentially be Vintage playable.  Here is my first attempt:

Crazy Mana Enchantment
{B}/ {R}  {B}/ {R}  {B}/ {R} (Not sure how to make hybrid mana symbols)
Enchantment
Discard a land card from your hand: Add to your mana pool three mana of any type that the discarded land could produce.
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Wagner
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« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2013, 07:49:22 pm »

Terribly out of the color pie. Since when does black care about lands, or making mana (black acceleration was switched to red a while ago)? This would work better as green and red.

Also, instant combo with Life form the Loam and any card drawing, which is not a bad thing, but really limits its potential to be played in other decks.
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« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2013, 08:31:55 pm »

i've been thinking something like the urza block "hidden" enchantments...

Hidden Phantasms   {1} {U} {G}

Enchantment

Flash

hexproof

whenever a non-land permanent enters the battlefield
Hidden Phantasms becomes a copy of that permanent except it's name is still Hidden Phantasms and gains: " {1} {U} {G}: return Hidden Phantasms to it's owner's hand."


might be a bit powerful but maybe not. I can do without Hexproof, i guess...

thoughts?
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 08:39:01 pm by Ten-Ten » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2013, 10:01:36 pm »

i've been thinking something like the urza block "hidden" enchantments...

Hidden Phantasms   {1} {U} {G}

Enchantment

Flash

hexproof

whenever a non-land permanent enters the battlefield
Hidden Phantasms becomes a copy of that permanent except it's name is still Hidden Phantasms and gains: " {1} {U} {G}: return Hidden Phantasms to it's owner's hand."


might be a bit powerful but maybe not. I can do without Hexproof, i guess...

thoughts?

I like it, but I would change the name, the fact that you can just flash it to get what you want is the opposite of the Hidden enchantments. It's probably a bit too low costed to be able to copy anything. Either it copies only creatures and/or artifacts (Metamorph costs "4" with no flash or hexproof or bounce), or up the mana cost a bit.

I'd totally want to see someone flashing Zealous Guardian into play after you cast this to copy a big dude. Smile
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« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2013, 11:47:58 pm »

i've been thinking something like the urza block "hidden" enchantments...

Hidden Phantasms   {1} {U} {G}

Enchantment

Flash

hexproof

whenever a non-land permanent enters the battlefield
Hidden Phantasms becomes a copy of that permanent except it's name is still Hidden Phantasms and gains: " {1} {U} {G}: return Hidden Phantasms to it's owner's hand."


might be a bit powerful but maybe not. I can do without Hexproof, i guess...

thoughts?

I like it, but I would change the name, the fact that you can just flash it to get what you want is the opposite of the Hidden enchantments. It's probably a bit too low costed to be able to copy anything. Either it copies only creatures and/or artifacts (Metamorph costs "4" with no flash or hexproof or bounce), or up the mana cost a bit.

I'd totally want to see someone flashing Zealous Guardian into play after you cast this to copy a big dude. Smile
As far as the "hidden" part, I see what you mean. I just never liked the fact that they were never a surprise at all. If something is hidden, it should surprise the opponent. Sort of like Qasali Ambusher

The casting cost seems ok. Multicolor is already a bit prohibitive. making it  {2} {U} {G} would mean changing the bounce ability activation cost up also or making it an optional end of turn trigger instead.
In standard, Commander and modern, this may be acceptable but not for Vintage.

I mean if phyrexian Metamorph's phyrexian mana is paid with life Almost any deck can fit it in (like Shop decks).
Phyrexian metamorph ended up in the rare slot. My enchantment should probably be mythic, except it doesn't fit the flavor of being "Mythic" at least yet  Wink

Don't forget opponent(s) can just cast a mox or Snapcaster mage while this is on the battlefield to change it. It's not as difficult to play around as one might think at first..
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« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2013, 12:33:23 am »

Terribly out of the color pie. Since when does black care about lands, or making mana (black acceleration was switched to red a while ago)? This would work better as green and red.

Black has a long history of mana acceleration, continuing as recently as Crypt Ghast.  I do agree, however, that black and red don't really care about lands.
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« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2013, 09:13:32 am »

I put this in the 'color choice' thread as an example of what I think is the easiest path to a Vintage playable black (non-leyline) enchantment:


All Consuming Power Hunger  {B} {B}
Enchantment
Whenever you cast a spell, you lose life and draw cards equal to that spell's converted mana cost.


I think the Necro/Bargain effect is one people from all formats would vote for in droves.  It may not turn out exactly like the above, but I think the above is illustrative of the idea.
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« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2013, 10:59:37 am »

Hidden Phantasms   {1} {U} {G}

Enchantment

Flash

hexproof

whenever a non-land permanent enters the battlefield
Hidden Phantasms becomes a copy of that permanent except it's name is still Hidden Phantasms and gains: " {1} {U} {G}: return Hidden Phantasms to it's owner's hand."

Don't forget opponent(s) can just cast a mox or Snapcaster mage while this is on the battlefield to change it. It's not as difficult to play around as one might think at first..

Oooooh, I totally missed that then, the wording seems to indicate it loses the copy ability after the first thing it copies and gains the bounce.

Whenever another non-land permanent enters the battlefield, Hidden Phantasms becomes a copy of that permanent and gains this ability and "{1} {U} {G}: return Hidden Phantasms to it's owner's hand."

Wording stolen from Unstable Shapeshifter.

With that change, I now find it pretty weak actually. And if it keeps changing, bringing it back to your hand it not that exiting and basically just acts as a protection instead of a clone-reset switch.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2013, 11:14:01 am by Wagner » Logged
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« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2013, 01:01:58 pm »

how's this:

Stand Tall   {1} {W}

enchantment

Sacrifice Stand Tall:
The next  {3} loss of life to you from a source of your choice is dealt to a creature or player of your choice instead.

Draw a card.

took me a while trying to get the wording correct.
I was trying to make a white version of Stand Still + Harm's way.
Just wasnt sure how to make it a trigger ability instead of an activated one...

thoughts?
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« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2013, 01:33:59 pm »

how's this:

Stand Tall   {1} {W}

enchantment

Sacrifice Stand Tall:
The next  {3} loss of life to you from a source of your choice is dealt to a creature or player of your choice instead.

Draw a card.

took me a while trying to get the wording correct.
I was trying to make a white version of Stand Still + Harm's way.
Just wasnt sure how to make it a trigger ability instead of an activated one...

thoughts?

I like that you only draw when you use it. Not broken in T1 as big blue and dredge can mostly ignore it, but nice.

Also, I think you should just use Harm's way wording to make it simpler.

Stand Tall   {1} {W}
Enchantment
Sacrifice Stand Tall:
The next 3 damage that a source of your choice would deal to you is dealt to target creature or player instead.
Draw a card.

Looks cleaner.



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« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2013, 02:01:09 pm »

Planned Heist {U} {U}
Enchantment
Whenever an opponent casts an instant or sorcery spell, if it was the first spell they cast this turn, and if its converted mana cost is {2} or less, you may gain control of that spell, if you do so, you may choose new targets for the spell.

I was trying to think of how to deal with uncounterable spells, the way Counterbalance (with Top) 'deals with' counterable spells.  Turning an opponent's Abrupt Decay against them seems pretty good, but is dependent on their not having a decoy spell, and there being another legal target for you to change to.  It combats discard, Silence, Lightning Bolt, Brainstorm, etc.

In Vintage your opponent has to play around it to avoid giving you a free Demonic Tutor/Time Walk/Ancestral Recall.

And it's not inviolable, Stifle will probably never be profitably stolen, and cards with higher casting costs don't give a hoot.

Honestly, I'd rather cost this at  {1} {U} {R} or something, but the YMTC4 color choices are only monocolored.
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Vintage is a lovely format, it's too bad so few people can play because the supply of power is so small.

Chess really changed when they decided to stop making Queens and Bishops.  I'm just glad I got my copies before the prices went crazy.
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« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2013, 05:03:13 pm »

@Wagner: the only reason i didn't use Harm's way's wording was to be able to hit dudes like Geist of St. Traft Smile  I still want it to be a trigered ability instead but it gets ugly and very difficult to read/understand. at least the way I would word it.. I will post more on it later.
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« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2013, 05:58:23 pm »

Blue can use a little pumping in the enchantment division.  I think it can use some help here:

Aura Alarm
U
Enchantment
Whenever an artifact or creature is cast, counter it and sacrifice Aura Alarm

Should help smemmy obliterate shops - with the added bonus of helping to kick fish in the scrote.  Maybe it will help make blue playable again.
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« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2013, 10:13:05 am »

Blue can use a little pumping in the enchantment division.  I think it can use some help here:

Aura Alarm
U
Enchantment
Whenever an artifact or creature is cast, counter it and sacrifice Aura Alarm

Should help smemmy obliterate shops - with the added bonus of helping to kick fish in the scrote.  Maybe it will help make blue playable again.

I contend that this would make landstill absolutely insane.
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« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2013, 10:36:57 am »

Maybe it will help make blue playable again.

One day... perhaps...
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« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2013, 02:03:17 pm »

New idea:

Currency Exchange
{2} {G} {G}
Enchantment
Pay 2 life: Add  {1} to your mana pool.
 {2}: You gain 1 life.
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« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2013, 02:37:42 pm »

New idea:

Currency Exchange
{2} {G} {G}
Enchantment
Pay 2 life: Add  {1} to your mana pool.
 {2}: You gain 1 life.

Mana cost alone makes it unplayable. Make it cost just G and then we'll talk.

-Storm
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« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2013, 02:59:43 pm »

New idea:

Currency Exchange
{2} {G} {G}
Enchantment
Pay 2 life: Add  {1} to your mana pool.
 {2}: You gain 1 life.

Mana cost alone makes it unplayable. Make it cost just G and then we'll talk.

-Storm

Make it cost just  {G} and it would be insanely overpowered.  I'm sure there's a happy middle ground in mana cost between yours and mine.  I like the effect, though.
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« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2013, 06:49:18 pm »

GG is fine - for just G it becomes a cheaper, splashable channel, which is awful
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« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2013, 11:45:17 am »

Make a channel and you are breaking other formats with emrakuls all around. Let's have in mind that this new card would be in standard, so you can't make cards like necropotence or oath

power from the herd {1} {G}
Whennever you play a creature, put a counter on PFTH.
At the beginning of your main phase, add G to your mana pool for every counter on PFTH

power from blood{1} {R} {R}
when PFB enters the game, target an opponent.
Whennever target opponent receives non-combat damage, put a counter on PFB.
At the beginning of your upkeep, deal 1 damage to target opponent for everyt counter on PFB

power from life {1} {W}
Whennever you gain life , put a counter on PFL.
At the beginning of your upkeep, gain 1 life for every counter on PFL

power from death {1} {B} {B}
when PFD enters the game, target an opponent.
Whennever target opponent discards a card, put a counter on PFD.
At the beginning of your upkeep, draw a card for every counter on PFD

power from the spirit {1} {U}
Whennever you draw a card, put a counter on PFTS.
At the beginning of your upkeep, scry x, where x is the number of counters on PFTS


Hey, they are cool! but maybe I have breaking my own premise, some seem too good for standard. However I don't believe they could be vintage playable with those costs and effects.
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« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2013, 12:11:11 pm »

Chronicle of Stone
{3} {R}
Enchantment
{X}: Until end of turn you may cast target sorcery or instant card in your graveyard with converted mana cost X or less without paying its mana cost.  Activate this ability only once per turn.
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« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2013, 02:21:06 pm »

Chronicle of Stone
{3} {R}
Enchantment
{X}: Until end of turn you may cast target sorcery or instant card in your graveyard with converted mana cost X or less without paying its mana cost.  Activate this ability only once per turn.
It's got to fully emulate flashback and exile the card, otherwise you get Time Walk effect loops EZPZ.

A heavier committment to red mana would be more flavorful too, like the mana is burning (not in the old sense).  Something like 'spend only red mana on X' would fit it well.



How about:
Relearn to Count  {W}
Enchantment
The storm count is 1.  (This is true as long as ~ is in play.)
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Vintage is a lovely format, it's too bad so few people can play because the supply of power is so small.

Chess really changed when they decided to stop making Queens and Bishops.  I'm just glad I got my copies before the prices went crazy.
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« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2013, 02:56:46 pm »

Make a channel and you are breaking other formats with emrakuls all around. Let's have in mind that this new card would be in standard, so you can't make cards like necropotence or oath

power from the herd {1} {G}
Whennever you play a creature, put a counter on PFTH.
At the beginning of your main phase, add G to your mana pool for every counter on PFTH

power from blood{1} {R} {R}
when PFB enters the game, target an opponent.
Whennever target opponent receives non-combat damage, put a counter on PFB.
At the beginning of your upkeep, deal 1 damage to target opponent for everyt counter on PFB

power from life {1} {W}
Whennever you gain life , put a counter on PFL.
At the beginning of your upkeep, gain 1 life for every counter on PFL

power from death {1} {B} {B}
when PFD enters the game, target an opponent.
Whennever target opponent discards a card, put a counter on PFD.
At the beginning of your upkeep, draw a card for every counter on PFD

power from the spirit {1} {U}
Whennever you draw a card, put a counter on PFTS.
At the beginning of your upkeep, scry x, where x is the number of counters on PFTS


Hey, they are cool! but maybe I have breaking my own premise, some seem too good for standard. However I don't believe they could be vintage playable with those costs and effects.

I like those a lot! Exept the blue one, it seems if you drop this early, you will get to basically stack your deck every turn without much effort. Maybe they could have "When this had 5 counters, sacrifice it" or something like it to make them less freaking amazing.

Also, the white and red ones shouldn't be able to auto-pump themselves.

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« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2013, 11:45:00 pm »

It's got to fully emulate flashback and exile the card, otherwise you get Time Walk effect loops EZPZ.

Yeah, I totally meant to include that but just forgot.  It exiles the card.

A heavier committment to red mana would be more flavorful too, like the mana is burning (not in the old sense).  Something like 'spend only red mana on X' would fit it well.

I considered this as well.  My potential solution was "target red instant or sorcery card".  I made it as-is for the brokenness.
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« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2013, 02:50:59 am »

Make a channel and you are breaking other formats with emrakuls all around. Let's have in mind that this new card would be in standard, so you can't make cards like necropotence or oath

power from the herd {1} {G}
Whennever you play a creature, put a counter on PFTH.
At the beginning of your main phase, add G to your mana pool for every counter on PFTH

power from blood{1} {R} {R}
when PFB enters the game, target an opponent.
Whennever target opponent receives non-combat damage, put a counter on PFB.
At the beginning of your upkeep, deal 1 damage to target opponent for everyt counter on PFB

power from life {1} {W}
Whennever you gain life , put a counter on PFL.
At the beginning of your upkeep, gain 1 life for every counter on PFL

power from death {1} {B} {B}
when PFD enters the game, target an opponent.
Whennever target opponent discards a card, put a counter on PFD.
At the beginning of your upkeep, draw a card for every counter on PFD

power from the spirit {1} {U}
Whennever you draw a card, put a counter on PFTS.
At the beginning of your upkeep, scry x, where x is the number of counters on PFTS


Hey, they are cool! but maybe I have breaking my own premise, some seem too good for standard. However I don't believe they could be vintage playable with those costs and effects.

I like those a lot! Exept the blue one, it seems if you drop this early, you will get to basically stack your deck every turn without much effort. Maybe they could have "When this had 5 counters, sacrifice it" or something like it to make them less freaking amazing.

Also, the white and red ones shouldn't be able to auto-pump themselves.



Thanks :p

I also thought that maybe red shouldn't autopump, but wasn't sure. If so, the wording should be
Quote
At the beginning of your upkeep, target opponent loses 1 life for everyt counter on PFB
, so he is not taking damage.

However white is ok for me, since gaining life is not a broken mechanic, we have some win-a-lot-of-life cards that don't seem play. Maybe it should have a higher cost, so you can't play it too soon, but an aggressive deck would have no problem overcoming it, and a control deck should get over it. Burn would have a problem, but there is no perfect deck :p



Relearn to Count  looks quite original. Would it affect All spells (probably not!) or just those that already have storm?


Chaos Council  {2} {R}
Enchantment
At the beginning of your upkeep, every player shuffles his or her library and then shows the top card. He or she may play the card without playing its mana cost. If the card is not played, exile it.


Funny chaos XD Maybe worth playing in a Burning Long, Sneak and Show or so.


Fire bomb  {R}
Enchantment
At the beginning of your upkeep put a charge counter on fire bomb.
R, sacrifice fire bomb: Deal X damage to all players and creatures, where x is the number of charge ocunters on fire bomb.



Artificier's bane  {2} {G}
Enchantment
AB costs  {1} less for every artifact in play.
Artifact spells cost  {2} more to play.

Playable with a land and a mox. Not a good card for YMTC, but it would be a nice tool against mud on the play.


Blood tribute  {B} {B}
Enchantment
Blood tribute can't be the target of spells or habilities.
You can't win life.
Whennever you draw a card, lose 1 life.
At the beginning of your upkeep, put a counter on blood tribute. Then draw a card for every counter on blood tribute.

5 turn auto-death clock, and you can't easily get rid of it (well, you can sacrifice it but not destroy or bounce). However in those 5 turns you would have drawn 15 extra cards... Playable? Quite a suicide card.
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