Introductory Vintage Gauntlet

[rooneg]

I'm working on putting together a gauntlet of vintage decks for my local playtesting group (i.e. the guys at work who play magic over lunch), ideally working towards getting some of us familiar enough with vintage to start heading out to some of the north-eastern US tournaments.  I'm reasonably familiar with the format, but it's all theoretical, from reading tournament reports and articles online, I don't have much actual experience playing the decks.  The rest of the group doesn't really follow vintage at all, although they do have some reasonable legacy experience.  With that in mind, what should I be proxying up to give people a good overview?

My current thoughts are along these lines:

Dredge
Burning Tendrils
Bomberman
A Dark Confidant Blue Control Deck
One or two workshop decks
RUG Delver
Noble Fish

These are decks that seem to show up regularly, and cover a range of play styles that you'd want to be familiar with.  Also, given our collections of legacy staples they're all decks we could potentially put together for 10-15 proxy tournaments with a little effort.

A few questions though...

1) What kind of dredge would be best?  There seem to be a variety of builds, and I'm not familiar enough with the subtleties to be sure which is best for learning the format.

2) Which of the three major shop decks should I build?  I was leaning towards Espresso Stax and Martello Shops, but is there a particular build that would work well for newbies?

3) Are there any Oath decks other than Burning Tendrils that are actually getting played now?

4) Similarly, are there any Dark Ritual decks that are worth showing people other than Burning Tendrils?

5) For any of these decks, are there particular builds that you think would make sense to start people out on?

Thanks for the insight.

[Samoht]

I'd have at least 2 Shop variants. They play very differently when done correctly. Take Detwiler or Forino's lists for Shops, I'd start the Shop novices on either Espresso or Terra Nova, as they are the most linear once mulligans are completed. Martello is much more interactive and based on game state/match ups.

You should also have dedicated Oath in there. Greg Fenton's list works pretty well.  It runs Night's Whisper. It does not run Burning Wish. In fact, most of the Oath pilots are not on BW or Rituals in the NE.

RUG Delver has been weeded out by the broken decks. It dominated for a short time when people were on a Fish kick (and it crushes that) and the Shop players were built wrong. It hasn't done much in the past 6 months. If you want a Fish/Rod type deck Merfolk has a much stronger game-plan. That said, it's a pretty heavy dog to Shops, and that is fairly dominant in the NE region as a choice.

Dredge ebbs and flows. The most popular build features Sun Titan and Fatesticher. Those games are mostly about SB plans though, as game 1 is obviously very favorable.

If you are transitioning from Legacy to Vintage, the Legacy-esque ones are a good introduction. Rug Delver/Noble Fish/Merfolk/Bomberman all feel as if they can be almost legal sans some broken cards. I'd probably branch out from there.

[A.-1.]

Landstill would be another good 'transition' deck if you're coming from Legacy.

1.) I prefer the version of Dredge with the Dread Return package, but Turtle Dredge would probably be easier to learn.
2.) I'd also recommend you start with Terra Nova.
3.) Sadly, Oath is not being played in any significant numbers right now.
5.) If you want to build Bomberman, I'd start with the UW version. There are a lot of Grixis Control lists out there. A good place to start would be the list that won Worlds.

[Samoht]

Landstill would be another good 'transition' deck if you're coming from Legacy.

1.) I prefer the version of Dredge with the Dread Return package, but Turtle Dredge would probably be easier to learn.
2.) I'd also recommend you start with Terra Nova.
3.) Sadly, Oath is not being played in any significant numbers right now.
5.) If you want to build Bomberman, I'd start with the UW version. There are a lot of Grixis Control lists out there. A good place to start would be the list that won Worlds.

At the last Mox event, 4/10 players were on Oath of Druids.

[Pokey]

For reference, my current gauntlet is:

Grixis Control
U/W Bomberman
Noble Fish
Martello Shops
Burning Long

I would recommend changing Burning Long to a "normal" Oath deck.  Also, don't playtest with or against Dredge, ever.  It's just not fun for anyone.

[vaughnbros]

For reference, my current gauntlet is:

Grixis Control
U/W Bomberman
Noble Fish
Martello Shops
Burning Long

I would recommend changing Burning Long to a "normal" Oath deck.  Also, don't playtest with or against Dredge, ever.  It's just not fun for anyone.

With the exception of no dredge, I'd say your list is pretty much perfect.  If you can play with/against every deck in that group you should be able to play with/against every deck in vintage.  

If you really want to expand it past five decks, Keeper, Regular Oath, Terranova, Landstill, and RUG Delver are some other options.

I'm not sure I agree with you about not testing against burning long.  Its important to know where your deck stands against a pure combo deck that consistently wins on turn 1/2.

I agree dredge pre-sideboarded are pretty much a complete waste of time, but you should definitely test post board to make sure you are playing your hate correctly.  If you are new to the format, mulliganing and the timing of your crypt effects are critical to winning that match up.

1.) I prefer the version of Dredge with the Dread Return package, but Turtle Dredge would probably be easier to learn.

Turtle dredge is actually more difficult because of the importance of hitting the right cards with unmask and therapies.  Post sideboard they play pretty much the same though.

[Samoht]

For reference, my current gauntlet is:

Grixis Control
U/W Bomberman
Noble Fish
Martello Shops
Burning Long

I would recommend changing Burning Long to a "normal" Oath deck.  Also, don't playtest with or against Dredge, ever.  It's just not fun for anyone.

With the exception of no dredge, I'd say your list is pretty much perfect.  If you can play with/against every deck in that group you should be able to play with/against every deck in vintage.  

If you really want to expand it past five decks, Keeper, Regular Oath, Terranova, Landstill, and RUG Delver are some other options.

I'm not sure I agree with you about not testing against burning long.  Its important to know where your deck stands against a pure combo deck that consistently wins on turn 1/2.

I agree dredge pre-sideboarded are pretty much a complete waste of time, but you should definitely test post board to make sure you are playing your hate correctly.  If you are new to the format, mulliganing and the timing of your crypt effects are critical to winning that match up.

1.) I prefer the version of Dredge with the Dread Return package, but Turtle Dredge would probably be easier to learn.

Turtle dredge is actually more difficult because of the importance of hitting the right cards with unmask and therapies.  Post sideboard they play pretty much the same though.

Whoa nelly. Burning Long does not consistently go off on 2 unless it's playing against a goldfish. There is a reason that deck has done nothing in bigger events. It has a very hard time going off against Shops and Blue. Dredge is faster.

I fully agree about playtesting post boarded Dredge games. It's critical.

Espresso is potent as well and should be included. I'd add that before RUG Delver or Keeper.

[vaughnbros]

Whoa nelly. Burning Long does not consistently go off on 2 unless it's playing against a goldfish. There is a reason that deck has done nothing in bigger events. It has a very hard time going off against Shops and Blue. Dredge is faster.

Yeh exactly if you don't have an answer for their turn 2 you will lose.  I'd say dredge has very similar speed, expect that the answers for it typically are not main decked.  I know it doesnt top 8 very often, but its still a good deck for a gauntlet.  By preparing yourself for it you should be able to play against every glass cannon.  With the exclusion of burning long I would probably add in Maniac Doomsday, a little slower, but more consistent.  Since I think its important to test against at least one combo deck.

Espresso is potent as well and should be included. I'd add that before RUG Delver or Keeper.

Although Espresso is potent, it still plays the same bread and butter as other workshop builds.  I mentioned RUG delver because its game plan is unique compared to the rest of the meta game.  As for Keeper I think its a pretty underrated deck that could be a great learning tool for a new player to try out a large number of vintage staples all at once.

[cvarosky80]

My current Northeast Vintage gauntlet is this:

Shops
1. Martello
2. Espresso
3. Terra Nova

I find it very important to test against all the differing Shops decks when prepping for a tournament as, depending on what deck you are planning on playing, it's important to know how each one reacts post-board to what you are doing as each plays out pretty differently from the other.

Blue
1. Bomberman
2. Grixis/Dark Confidant-based Control
3. UR Landstill

Your 3 best performing Blue decks for pretty much the past year. I know that the UW Manstill deck is starting to catch on, however, I haven't seen it in action personally, so I can't honestly say with any confidence how or if it is better than the UR version. It may be, but I prefer to see a deck in action before adding it to the gauntlet, so this way I can at least get a chance to see the quirks and decision-making that the deck has for myself.

Dredge
1. Whatever the "hot" Dredge deck of the moment is out there

I actually enjoy testing against Dredge because I find it important to know whether or not my Dredge plan actually works before sleeving up my 75 for an event. You may not face it as frequently during the Swiss rounds as say Workshops, but I also want to be sure I have a very good shot at winning Games 2 and 3 consistently in that one round that I potentially do face it in.

The Rest Of The Field
1. Noble Fish
2. Doomsday

These are the other 2 Northeast decks that have consistently shown up in recent T8's and have exceptional pilots behind them.

Now this certainly does not cover the entire field, but, these are the ones that time and time again populate the Top 8. As far as Burning Long goes, it's too difficult to test with in a gauntlet unless you have an experienced Ritual Combo player to pilot it, and outside of Paul Mastriano, no one else has had any success in cracking the Top 8 with it in the Northeast as far as I'm aware.

[Samoht]

Whoa nelly. Burning Long does not consistently go off on 2 unless it's playing against a goldfish. There is a reason that deck has done nothing in bigger events. It has a very hard time going off against Shops and Blue. Dredge is faster.

Yeh exactly if you don't have an answer for their turn 2 you will lose.  I'd say dredge has very similar speed, expect that the answers for it typically are not main decked.  I know it doesnt top 8 very often, but its still a good deck for a gauntlet.  By preparing yourself for it you should be able to play against every glass cannon.  With the exclusion of burning long I would probably add in Maniac Doomsday, a little slower, but more consistent.  Since I think its important to test against at least one combo deck.

Espresso is potent as well and should be included. I'd add that before RUG Delver or Keeper.

Although Espresso is potent, it still plays the same bread and butter as other workshop builds.  I mentioned RUG delver because its game plan is unique compared to the rest of the meta game.  As for Keeper I think its a pretty underrated deck that could be a great learning tool for a new player to try out a large number of vintage staples all at once.

You don't necessarily need an answer, just some modicum of resistance. Add Forino Sui Black, the Spy deck, and Belcher into the list too then. If you are strong enough against the decks in the gauntlet you should also be able to pick out the bottle neck points against the awkward glass cannon's that exist.

Espresso is much heavier in its controlling aspects than the other lists. The entire deck is built around not allowing the opponent to play Magic. Forgemaster does nothing of the sort. Neither does Marinara. Terra Nova is the closest, but it is still unique. As far as Keeper goes, you'll get no argument from me that it is underrated. I was the one that brought it back from the depths three years ago and started top 8'ing events. Rob Edwards has picked up the mantle of it and continued to do well with it. That said, it isn't well positioned against the blue decks right now, especially Bomberman. As such, I don't suggest playing it right now.

[Samoht]

My current Northeast Vintage gauntlet is this:

Shops
1. Martello
2. Espresso
3. Terra Nova

I find it very important to test against all the differing Shops decks when prepping for a tournament as, depending on what deck you are planning on playing, it's important to know how each one reacts post-board to what you are doing as each plays out pretty differently from the other.

Blue
1. Bomberman
2. Grixis/Dark Confidant-based Control
3. UR Landstill

Your 3 best performing Blue decks for pretty much the past year. I know that the UW Manstill deck is starting to catch on, however, I haven't seen it in action personally, so I can't honestly say with any confidence how or if it is better than the UR version. It may be, but I prefer to see a deck in action before adding it to the gauntlet, so this way I can at least get a chance to see the quirks and decision-making that the deck has for myself.

Dredge
1. Whatever the "hot" Dredge deck of the moment is out there

I actually enjoy testing against Dredge because I find it important to know whether or not my Dredge plan actually works before sleeving up my 75 for an event. You may not face it as frequently during the Swiss rounds as say Workshops, but I also want to be sure I have a very good shot at winning Games 2 and 3 consistently in that one round that I potentially do face it in.

The Rest Of The Field
1. Noble Fish
2. Doomsday

These are the other 2 Northeast decks that have consistently shown up in recent T8's and have exceptional pilots behind them.

Now this certainly does not cover the entire field, but, these are the ones that time and time again populate the Top 8. As far as Burning Long goes, it's too difficult to test with in a gauntlet unless you have an experienced Ritual Combo player to pilot it, and outside of Paul Mastriano, no one else has had any success in cracking the Top 8 with it in the Northeast as far as I'm aware.

I'd add Oath to that list, otherwise seems fine to me.

[Onslaught]

CTRL + F for "Gush" - 0 results

Yep, seems about right...

[vaughnbros]

CTRL + F for "Gush" - 0 results

Yep, seems about right...

Lol delver has gush in it...

[rooneg]

Thanks for all the suggestions!

I've started out with Grixis Control from Vintage Champs last year and I'm currently cutting up proxies for Esspresso Stax and Noble Fish.  The collection of decks will grow from there until we've covered most of the stuff people have mentioned here.  Hopefully this will be enough to get a few of us interested enough to head out to some of the local events.