TO Report: The Players Guild 04/06/13

[Kameli0n]

Even with giving out a sweet playmat, store credit, AND Qualifier entry into the NYSE Power Tournament, it still wasn’t enough to draw in a large portion of the vintage players. Only 19 vintage participants were in attendance. Top 4 were awarded  for the event. Top 4 opted to split the 470 in store credit and continued to battle it out for the honor (and the playmat and NYSE Power Tournament Qualifier entry). Thanks to everyone who did come to play vintage in Bloomsburg.

The Metagame Breakdown:

Forces:
UW Bomberman: 1 –  5.26%
Show and Oath: 1 –  5.26%
UW Landstill: 1 –  5.26%
UW Bomberstill: 1 –  5.26%

Workshops:
Martello: 2 – 14.29%
Marinara: 2 – 7.14%

Bazaars:
Dredge: 1 – 5.26%

Combo:
Doomsday: 1 –  5.26%
Burning Tendrils: 2 –  10.53%

Others:
Noble Fish: 3 – 15.79%
BUG Fish: 3 – 15.79%
Humans: 1 – 5.26%

This event was run with 5 swiss rounds with the cut to top 8.


Top 8 Pairings and Results

Bergeman, Ryan vs. Kelly, Brian – Kelly Wins
Glackin, Ryan vs. Krushka, James – Glackin wins
Kohler, Justin vs. Sees, William – Kohler Wins
Ballester, Lance vs. Geras, Jonathan –  Ballester wins

Top 4 Pairings and Results
Glackin, Ryan vs. Kelly, Brian – Kelly  Wins
Kohler, Justin vs. Ballester, Lance –  Kohler wins

Finals
Kelly, Brian vs. Kohler, Justin –Kohler  wins

Please inform us of any suggestions you may have for us to improve our tournaments in the future! And again, thanks to everyone for coming out to help support the game! Congrats to Justin for winning!

Top 8 Decklists:

First – Justin Kohler
“Red Deck Wins”

1 Aven Mindcensor
2 Auriok Salvagers
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Trinket Mage
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Flusterstorm
1 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Mental Misstep
3 Spell Snare
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
1 Time Walk
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Aether Spellbomb
1 Black Lotus
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Grafdigger’s Cage
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
2 Sensei’s Divining Top
1 Plains
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Polluted Delta
3 Island
3 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand

SB:
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Rest in Peace
2 Disenchant
2 Steel Sabotage
1 Devout Witness
1 Grafdigger’s Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod’s Crypt

Second – Brian Kelly
“Mayor Fish”
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Dark Confidant
3 Mayor of Avabruck
3 Meddling Mage
3 Fiend Hunter
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Devout Witness
3 Mental Misstep
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Ancestral Recall
2 Stony Silence
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
1 Grafdigger’s Cage
1 Batterskull
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Brass
1 March Flats
1 Windswept Heath
1 Bayou
1 Tundra
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Wasteland
2 Mishra’s Factory
1 Strip Mine
2 Plains

SB:
1 Grafdigger’s Cage
1 Mayor of Avabruck
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Porcelain Legionnaire
2 True Believer
2 Rest in Peace
1 Stony Silence
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Path to Exile
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Mishra’s Factory
1 Wasteland

Semi-Finalist – Lance Ballester
“UW Bomberstill”

3 Island
1 Plains
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
1 Faerie Conclave
4 Mishra’s Factory
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Pearl
1 Sol Ring
1 Aether Spellbomb
1 Grafdigger’s Cage
1 Sensei’s Divining Top
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Auriok Salvagers
4 Trinket Mage
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Standstill
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Mental Misstep
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain

SB:
1 Devout Witness
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Pithing Needle
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Rest in Peace
2 Disenchant
3 Grafdigger’s Cage
4 Swords to Plowshares

Semi-Finalist – Ryan Glackin
“BUG"

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Flusterstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Mental Misstep
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Spell Pierce
1 Steel Sabotage
1 Time Walk
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Dark Confidant
1 Demonic Tutor
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Nature’s Claim
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Nightveil Specter
3 Trygon Predator
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
2 Bayou
2 Polluted Delta
1 Strip Mine
3 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wasteland

SB:
1 Flusterstorm
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Yixlid Jailer
3 Nature’s Claim
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Pithing Needle
1 Wasteland

Quarter-Finalist – Jonathan Geras
“PNGS Fish”

3 Noble Hierarch
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Meddling Mage
3 Tarmogoyf
4 Shardless Agent
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Black Lotus
4 Grafdigger’s Cage
3 Stony Silence
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
3 Tundra

SB:
4 Serenity
3 Path to Exile
3 Rest in Peace
2 Nature’s Claim
3 Trygon Predator

Quarter-Finalist – Bill Sees
“Sees Fish”

4 Misty Rainforest
1 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Forest
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Tundra
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
3 Green Sun’s Zenith
3 Path to Exile
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Tarmogoyf
1 Cold-eyed Selkie
4 Meddling Mage
3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Trygon Predator
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Qasali Pridemage

SB:
2 Mental Misstep
2 Flusterstorm
4 Grafdigger’s Cage
4 Serenity
3 Rest in Peace

Quarter-Finalist – James Krushka
“Martello”

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Tangle Wire
3 Sphere of Resistance
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
1 Sundering Titan
1 Trinisphere
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Duplicant
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Black Lotus
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra’s Workshop
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
1 City of Traitors
3 Mishra’s Factory
1 Ghost Quarter

SB:
4 Grafdigger’s Cage
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Duplicant
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Tormod’s Crypt

Quarter-Finalist – Ryan Bergeman
“UW Landstill"

4 Flooded Strand
4 Mishra’s Factory
4 Tundra
4 Wasteland
3 Island
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Plains
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Strip Mine
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
4 Standstill
3 Stony Silence
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Flusterstorm
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Mental Misstep
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Steel Sabotage
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Balance
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Time Walk

SB:
4 Rest in Peace
3 Grafdigger’s Cage
2 Disenchant
1 Devout Witness
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
1 Mental Misstep
1 Steel Sabotage
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Swords to Plowshares

Again, thanks for all the support. The date of the next Bloomsburg event is May 4, 2013. Thanks again everyone!!!!! And once again, Congratulations to Justin!!!

[msg67183]

Congrats to the Top 8

Surprised to see Mayor Fish not only
top 8 a second month in a row, but get 2nd!

[Samoht]

All the fish decks...

[Smmenen]

Makes perfect sense.  When the field goes so hard control with Landstill and decks with such a hard control mode, Fish decks are a natural answer.  Kudos to Fish!

Also, nice job to Ryan Glackin with Nightveil Specter!  I hope the NE sees more and more fish in the near future

[mr.grim]

Props to Jonathan , Bill , Kohler and the rest of the top.
Thanks to Shawn for a great time as always.
@ Bill . You made the right choice lol.
@ Team Ramrod. Thank you for a very entertaining afternoon. It's true what they say about that syrup.

[Samoht]

Makes perfect sense.  When the field goes so hard control with Landstill and decks with such a hard control mode, Fish decks are a natural answer.  Kudos to Fish!

Also, nice job to Ryan Glackin with Nightveil Specter!  I hope the NE sees more and more fish in the near future

Except that the last event was dominated by Shops.

[ramrodjon]

Thanks, Keith!  Hope you enjoyed the movie.  PNGS Fish is a hat-tip to the guys who’ve helped me along the way playing the deck (Bernie, Mykie, and Bill Sees).  This was another great event at TPG, even though the turnout was small.  I ended up 3-1-1 after Swiss (lost to Chris K on Espresso, beat Chris V on Oath, beat Brandon B on BUG Fish, beat Phil B on Noble Fish, then ID with Mr. Justin “Bomberman” Kohler.  Lance beat me in the top 8 with UW Manstill-Bomberman-thing.  Props: fun matches, great opponents, too much Boom Boom, and hilarity at The Lube.  Slops: Ramrod on Ramrod crime, small turnout, and Kohler not taking the Atomic challenge even though the group pitched in to buy!

[Guli]

Congrats Brian with the second top 8 with Mayor Fish, and indeed the second place is truly remarkable. I wish there were some video's so we could watch it (with commentary).

@Smmenen, I would run Mayor Fish in any metagame

[cvarosky80]

[vaughnbros]

Another great event at the player's guild with all the awesome people that always show up and our wonderful TO Shawn.  Congrats to Justin and the rest of the top 8.  I wish I could've stayed around for the lube at this one, but I look forward to being able to do so next time.

Makes perfect sense.  When the field goes so hard control with Landstill and decks with such a hard control mode, Fish decks are a natural answer.  Kudos to Fish!

I was playing a hard control deck at this event and went  4-0 in matches, 8-1 games, against fish on the day.  Justin also beat two fish decks in the top 8.  So I don't exactly see how these results show fish as a natural answer to hard control.  In fact it would point to the complete opposite.

[Pokey]

Haha, Chris!  I remember you saying you were going to make that meme.

[brianpk80]

I was playing a hard control deck at this event and went  4-0 in matches, 8-1 games, against fish on the day.  Justin also beat two fish decks in the top 8.  So I don't exactly see how these results show fish as a natural answer to hard control.  In fact it would point to the complete opposite.

Your list is very interesting.  I never would have guessed it from the hints.  I thought you were on Fish.  

Bomberman is not a favorable match-up for the Mayor but Landstill generally is.  I wonder if there's a rock-paper-scissors analogy to be made with the three.  They're all good against broken blue & combo.  There were no Tinkers, Vaults, or Tendrils in the Top 8.  

It should be stated though how important play-skill is.  In game 2 in the finals, I mulled to 6 and opened with Thalia.  He played an Island and passed.  I drew Thalia #3 (ugh), and put down a Mishra's Factory and a Meddling Mage on Trinket Mage.  He played another land and a Sol Ring.  I knew I was in a bad position because as in game 1, the Dark Confidants were hiding.  But I also noticed there was enough disruption and clock to steal a game from a different opponent if they were new to Bomberman and didn't play it optimally.  The play-skill factor came into play very starkly in the following turns.  He Plowshared Thalia and I pretended to care, but I was just glad to have a use for the others in hand.  I played Thalia again and attacked for 4.  Eventually he went into a trance state of concentration for several minutes like a math genius in a banking crisis and executed a perfect sequence of bouncing, tutoring, and resolving spells including Time Walk that ultimately gave him a Jace and three Trinket Mages procuring Spellbomb, Black Lotus, and Engineered Explosives.  I kept drawing land/Moxen and attacked with Thalia knowing he'd double-block so I could do something relevant with the third one.  After a few turns of creature stalemate, he Vendilion Cliqued me on draw step and took the Fiend Hunter that would have given me a clearer combat path towards Jace.  (He took the Fiend Hunter w. Clique in game 1 also, which was the right call, although I'm reluctant to use them on a Trinket Mage or Clique w. Jace in play, since he could bounce the Hunter and get another CIP effect.)  At that point, it was over before it was over, as they say.  He played Auriok Salvagers as a formality to seal the deal.  

The point overall is that play-skill factor can't be segregated out of results so the results become imperfect indicators of a deck's inherent strengths.  It takes the right weapon and the right hands.

I'll add that the idea that Fish was chosen to respond to "hard control" is not true.  It's usually a Workshop/Dredge dominated metagame with 2-3 hard control decks that consistently perform well but are still a minority.  One of them, Bomberman, isn't even favorable.  I play the Mayor deck cause it's flexible and fun.  Wolf tokens.  It has nothing to do with hard control.    

The decklist posted is a bit different from the standard list.  It does have a Mox Pearl and when I got there I couldn't find my Bojuka Bog so I had to make a few last minute changes.  I was writing everything down on the white form they had there but someone suggested I just turn in the yellow paper I had which was for myself to remember what to sleeve up.  I changed things on the yellow paper, but missed something and ended up getting a game loss for the discrepancy and punished by being forced to include an extra basic Plains in my maindeck making it 61 cards.  So the list I played was 61 cards = that list plus the Mox Pearl.  The one intended to be played would be the posted list plus Mox Pearl minus one basic Plains and with a Bojuka Bog instead of Porcelain Leg. in the sideboard.  I'm used to being forced to fill out the form in the store from way back when, but if we can type or write it up beforehand, I'll remember that for next time.

Props: the store, Shawn for hosting Vintage tournaments close to home.
Mike Noble and the Lady Gaga concert.
Keith the Workshop player who remembered me and my brother from Wilkes-Barre back in the day.
Cavern of Souls.
Justin, lending me Wastelands and delivering on earlier promise to win the tournament.

Slops: Opening a bottle of Coke outside and having it explode all over me.  Bad day for a white shirt. 

I should be there again in May.  Cheers.

[brianpk80]

@ Brian. It was nice to see you again. The games were pretty solid. Props on making the finals.

Thanks, you too.  You played very well. 

[Samoht]

When people realize that Bomberman is a fish deck masquerading as a control deck, perhaps the results will change.

[psyburat]

My day:

2-1'd Rob Edwards on Martello
2-0'd Brian/Bryan/Ryan Kelly on Cavern Humans
0-2'd Bill Sees on Noble Fish
1-2'd Justin Kohler on Bomberman
2-0'd Joe Brown on Burning Oath

3-2 and 9th Place

Played the same 75 as Lancaster, and was once again angry at how awful Time Walk is.  Proceeded to eat thirteen Marshmellow Peeps and yell about how awesome the El Camino burger at QS&L is.  Tested more against Burning Oath with Joe Brown and Andy Happymeal afterwards and concluded that the matchup greatly favors Doomsday.  Recorded a video of Mark Hornung's pronunciation of bad (BIYAD!), which I will share at any future event but not online due to its mockery of an easily-offended TMD citizen.

Congrats to everyone!  Enjoy your thousand-calorie chocolate rabbit, Justin!

[Samoht]

My day:

2-1'd Rob Edwards on Martello
2-0'd Brian/Bryan/Ryan Kelly on Cavern Humans
0-2'd Bill Sees on Noble Fish
1-2'd Justin Kohler on Bomberman
2-0'd Joe Brown on Burning Oath

3-2 and 9th Place

Played the same 75 as Lancaster, and was once again angry at how awful Time Walk is.  Proceeded to eat thirteen Marshmellow Peeps and yell about how awesome the El Camino burger at QS&L is.  Tested more against Burning Oath with Joe Brown and Andy Happymeal afterwards and concluded that the matchup greatly favors Doomsday.  Recorded a video of Mark Hornung's pronunciation of bad (BIYAD!), which I will share at any future event but not online due to its mockery of an easily-offended TMD citizen.

Congrats to everyone!  Enjoy your thousand-calorie chocolate rabbit, Justin!

Everything is favored against Burning Oath.

[vaughnbros]

When people realize that Bomberman is a fish deck masquerading as a control deck, perhaps the results will change.

I'm not sure I understand this.  Can you elaborate on how viewing Bomberman as a fish deck will change results?  The deck wins most of its primarily on the back of Jace.  I don't particularly find this a very fish like strategy.

[KingSquee]

Everything is favored against Burning Oath.

Agreed. I got paired against the other Burning Oath player in the room, played three of the most dreadful games of Magic I've ever played (ask Hornung), and still managed to win. The deck is a glass-cannon deck which often doesn't work even when it does. (That made less and less sense as I typed it, but I'm leaving it in!)

Bomberman often deals lethal damage by way of fishy creatures such as Trinket Mage, Aven Mindcensor, and Vendilion Clique. It has a far stronger control suite than decks such as (Mykie) Noble Fish and an infinite combo, but there are similarities. You try to attack one angle of the deck and you'll lose to one of the other two. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the card that makes that deck work is Sensei's Divining Top. If that resolves you are in deep trouble.

[rbtabris]

I played against both Burning Oath pilots (one after the other, in fact) Rounds 1 & 2. In Game 1 of Round 1, he resolved an Oath of Druids and gave me a spirit token. He then proceeded to Oath away his entire library, save for four cards. Both copies of Griselbrand were in the bottom four cards. He got Griselbrand (3 cards left), drew for the turn (which I believe he said after the match was the other Griselbrand; 2 cards left), attacked me for 7 the following turn (7 damage dealt; 1 card left), and again the turn after that (14 damage dealt; 0 cards left). I won the game because he had no cards to draw the following turn.

In Game 2 of Round 2, Oath resolved and Griselbrand was found. I Swords-to-Plowshared it on his upkeep, and he paid 7 life to draw 7 cards. He commented on how those 7 cards didn't find him much (since he gained 7 from the STP, he probably could have gotten away with drawing 14 cards (he was at 15 life before the first activation) and gone to 8). The following turn he activated Oath again and proceeded to do basically what had happened with my round 1 opponent: put his entire library into the graveyard, save for a couple of cards. Even though I didn't have the second STP for the second Griselbrand, he lost when he could no longer draw a card. (He did mention after the match that he should have sided in Laboratory Maniac, and that would have won him the game (I didn't find the second STP).)

The other two games I played (round 1 game 2, and round 2 game 1) I had good hands (turn 1 Lotus + Grafdigger's + Stony Silence + waste effects r1g2, and a healthy dose of countermagic + mana disruption r2g1), but it was just so insane to basically watch that deck beat itself two rounds in a row.


Regarding the initial post: may the Quarter-Finalist/Semi-Finalist titles be corrected? (There are 4 Semi-Finalists and 2 Quarter-Finalists listed.) Regarding Lance's deck: there are 5 Grafdigger's Cages listed (1 main, 1 sideboard, and then 3 more in the sideboard). Is maybe that 1 copy in the sideboard supposed to be something else? (Thanks for the OP updates!)

[vaughnbros]

Bomberman often deals lethal damage by way of fishy creatures such as Trinket Mage, Aven Mindcensor, and Vendilion Clique. It has a far stronger control suite than decks such as (Mykie) Noble Fish and an infinite combo, but there are similarities. You try to attack one angle of the deck and you'll lose to one of the other two. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the card that makes that deck work is Sensei's Divining Top. If that resolves you are in deep trouble.

That's how it deals lethal, but the game is usually well in hand before that point via Jacestorming.  If I had to name a card that I think makes the deck work as well as it does I'd have to go with Trinket mage, who in turn finds sensei's top, because of his body and ability to grab the perfect card in nearly every situation.

The other two games I played (round 1 game 2, and round 2 game 1) I had good hands (turn 1 Lotus + Grafdigger's + Stony Silence + waste effects r1g2, and a healthy dose of countermagic + mana disruption r2g1), but it was just so insane to basically watch that deck beat itself two rounds in a row.

The deck certainly seems to be flawed.  Its mana base and self milling seem to kill itself more often than its opponent does.

Regarding the initial post: may the Quarter-Finalist/Semi-Finalist titles be corrected? (There are 4 Semi-Finalists and 2 Quarter-Finalists listed.) Regarding Lance's deck: there are 5 Grafdigger's Cages listed (1 main, 1 sideboard, and then 3 more in the sideboard). Is maybe that 1 copy in the sideboard supposed to be something else?

The 5th cage is supposed to be 1 Tormod's Crypt.

[rbtabris]

The 5th cage is supposed to be 1 Tormod's Crypt.

Thanks! Figured that was probably it.


I went 3-0-2 in the Swiss, double-IDing into top 8.

2-0'd Joe Brown on Burning Oath
2-0'd Andy Habermehl on Burning Oath
2-0'd Ryan Glackin on BUG
ID'd with Lance Ballester on UW Bomberstill
ID'd with Bill Sees on Sees Fish

I then went on to the quarterfinals to face what was likely my worst matchup in the room: Brian Kelly on Cavern Humans. Game 1 I mulled to 5, expecting to have to fight off early action (although I was first in the Swiss, we rolled to see who played first, and I lost the die roll). I was disappointed when he lead with "Scrubland, go." (I could have kept my 7 if I knew the start would be that slow.)

Despite him having 2+ Caverns out most of the game, I started to stabilize somewhat with Jace and multiple Factories (he did have Stony Silence, which made them a little less effective, but nevertheless they did their job). There was a lot of back and forth, but he eventually found more steam, and finally, Mayor, to take a very long game 1. As I began to sideboard, I looked and saw all three of my Swords to Plowshares next to one another in my deck. :/ (That must have been all that crazy Oath of Druids luck catching up to me from earlier.)

Game 2 he had a decent start (including Thalia), and while I did have a Swords and Snapcaster, I stalled on 3 land, and he Misstepped my Swords (I naturally drew Misstep the following turn). With 3 land, I didn't have enough mana to Snapcaster + flashback Swords, and lost pretty quickly.

Still, it was a good day of Vintage, followed by an excellent outing to the Quaker Steak & Lube, and all of the shenanigans that followed ("BIYAD! BIYAD!", the manager cropdusting us, etc.). The worst part of the day was the fact that more people didn't show up!

Thanks for the great event, Shawn! And congrats to Justin on his victory! I don't think I could function on working night shift and then trying to do anything in the A.M. the following day — you do that and just casually win Vintage tournaments.

[Samoht]

When people realize that Bomberman is a fish deck masquerading as a control deck, perhaps the results will change.

I'm not sure I understand this.  Can you elaborate on how viewing Bomberman as a fish deck will change results?  The deck wins most of its primarily on the back of Jace.  I don't particularly find this a very fish like strategy.

This deck does not win via Jacestorming when played ideally. In fact, Jacestorming is generally the wrong decision for this deck into an empty board. It is only ideal when you are either ahead with creatures or behind in cards. As I stated, people try to play against this deck wrong and lose accordingly. The first problem is they get blinded by the combo, when it is all but irrelevant to the games plan. The Salvagers is by far the worst card in the deck, and gets boarded out more than most people think. Secondly, they get blinded by the protection suite. The protection is there to just stall the game long enough to cast a Trinket Mage or some other creature and ride it to victory. The great thing about all of the creatures is that none are vanilla and as such they all push forth an agenda whilst adding a clock. Take the Jace's out of the deck and replace them with FoF's, and the games will end the same way 95% of the time (save when you would Jaceseal for the win).

[vaughnbros]

When people realize that Bomberman is a fish deck masquerading as a control deck, perhaps the results will change.

I'm not sure I understand this.  Can you elaborate on how viewing Bomberman as a fish deck will change results?  The deck wins most of its primarily on the back of Jace.  I don't particularly find this a very fish like strategy.

This deck does not win via Jacestorming when played ideally. In fact, Jacestorming is generally the wrong decision for this deck into an empty board. It is only ideal when you are either ahead with creatures or behind in cards. As I stated, people try to play against this deck wrong and lose accordingly. The first problem is they get blinded by the combo, when it is all but irrelevant to the games plan. The Salvagers is by far the worst card in the deck, and gets boarded out more than most people think. Secondly, they get blinded by the protection suite. The protection is there to just stall the game long enough to cast a Trinket Mage or some other creature and ride it to victory. The great thing about all of the creatures is that none are vanilla and as such they all push forth an agenda whilst adding a clock. Take the Jace's out of the deck and replace them with FoF's, and the games will end the same way 95% of the time (save when you would Jaceseal for the win).

I think I might just have to chock this one up to having drastically different opinions on how to correctly play this deck.  By no means am I an expert at this deck, but I've watched Justin play and win with it quite a few times and it paints a different picture in my mind of how the deck operates.  In this deck, I think salvagers is amazing and Jace is absolutely irreplaceable.

[Samoht]

When people realize that Bomberman is a fish deck masquerading as a control deck, perhaps the results will change.

I'm not sure I understand this.  Can you elaborate on how viewing Bomberman as a fish deck will change results?  The deck wins most of its primarily on the back of Jace.  I don't particularly find this a very fish like strategy.

This deck does not win via Jacestorming when played ideally. In fact, Jacestorming is generally the wrong decision for this deck into an empty board. It is only ideal when you are either ahead with creatures or behind in cards. As I stated, people try to play against this deck wrong and lose accordingly. The first problem is they get blinded by the combo, when it is all but irrelevant to the games plan. The Salvagers is by far the worst card in the deck, and gets boarded out more than most people think. Secondly, they get blinded by the protection suite. The protection is there to just stall the game long enough to cast a Trinket Mage or some other creature and ride it to victory. The great thing about all of the creatures is that none are vanilla and as such they all push forth an agenda whilst adding a clock. Take the Jace's out of the deck and replace them with FoF's, and the games will end the same way 95% of the time (save when you would Jaceseal for the win).

I think I might just have to chock this one up to having drastically different opinions on how to correctly play this deck.  By no means am I an expert at this deck, but I've watched Justin play and win with it quite a few times and it paints a different picture in my mind of how the deck operates.  In this deck, I think salvagers is amazing and Jace is absolutely irreplaceable.

I've played Justin's exact decklist several times and walked away with Moxes. I remember taking down someone that took Justin out in the Semis in two games with Guttersnipe+Deathrite Shaman. I boarded and played differently than him, and I won in 3 (though when I lost the 2nd game I was 1 card away from winning (ie the top card)). Justin and I have been conversing through his impressive run, and he has been very receptive to changes in cards/plays (as have I - namely in regards to Mindcensor). Recently we talked through Time Walk's ideal uses and why it's bad to play Time Walk on turn 1/2. He sticks to 4 Jace, I prefer to play 3. He plays 2 Top, I prefer 1. We've had very interesting testing sessions and results with UW Bomberman. In my games, I almost always win via utility creatures. Jace can be a catalyst, but often is extraneous. Justin leans on Jace significantly harder than I do which explains your observation. Against Justin I actually pre-emptively landed Pithing Needle and named Jace knowing I would be advantaged otherwise, it surprised him and got me 1 game.

[Pokey]

Tom definitely understands the deck, but has a very different playstyle than me.

Funny that you should mention the Time Walk thing, Tom, because I actually put that strategy to good use in this tournament, after our talk.  We'll probably never agree on Jace, but that's ok.   

[vaughnbros]

When people realize that Bomberman is a fish deck masquerading as a control deck, perhaps the results will change.

I'm not sure I understand this.  Can you elaborate on how viewing Bomberman as a fish deck will change results?  The deck wins most of its primarily on the back of Jace.  I don't particularly find this a very fish like strategy.

This deck does not win via Jacestorming when played ideally. In fact, Jacestorming is generally the wrong decision for this deck into an empty board. It is only ideal when you are either ahead with creatures or behind in cards. As I stated, people try to play against this deck wrong and lose accordingly. The first problem is they get blinded by the combo, when it is all but irrelevant to the games plan. The Salvagers is by far the worst card in the deck, and gets boarded out more than most people think. Secondly, they get blinded by the protection suite. The protection is there to just stall the game long enough to cast a Trinket Mage or some other creature and ride it to victory. The great thing about all of the creatures is that none are vanilla and as such they all push forth an agenda whilst adding a clock. Take the Jace's out of the deck and replace them with FoF's, and the games will end the same way 95% of the time (save when you would Jaceseal for the win).

I think I might just have to chock this one up to having drastically different opinions on how to correctly play this deck.  By no means am I an expert at this deck, but I've watched Justin play and win with it quite a few times and it paints a different picture in my mind of how the deck operates.  In this deck, I think salvagers is amazing and Jace is absolutely irreplaceable.

I've played Justin's exact decklist several times and walked away with Moxes. I remember taking down someone that took Justin out in the Semis in two games with Guttersnipe+Deathrite Shaman. I boarded and played differently than him, and I won in 3 (though when I lost the 2nd game I was 1 card away from winning (ie the top card)). Justin and I have been conversing through his impressive run, and he has been very receptive to changes in cards/plays (as have I - namely in regards to Mindcensor). Recently we talked through Time Walk's ideal uses and why it's bad to play Time Walk on turn 1/2. He sticks to 4 Jace, I prefer to play 3. He plays 2 Top, I prefer 1. We've had very interesting testing sessions and results with UW Bomberman. In my games, I almost always win via utility creatures. Jace can be a catalyst, but often is extraneous. Justin leans on Jace significantly harder than I do which explains your observation. Against Justin I actually pre-emptively landed Pithing Needle and named Jace knowing I would be advantaged otherwise, it surprised him and got me 1 game.

I know it may not seem it, but I do appreciate the input and varied view of the deck.  In retrospect I probably shouldve been looking to fateseal more often, I think I only used it once during the entire tournament.  This is definitely a great example of how an individuals play style can drastically affect the strength of certain cards.  I feel that the version I piloted in this tournament is probably more ideal to my play style of control into combo than the tempo aggro that you've pilot to success.

[Cunningbeaver]

Tom definitely understands the deck, but has a very different playstyle than me.

Funny that you should mention the Time Walk thing, Tom, because I actually put that strategy to good use in this tournament, after our talk.  We'll probably never agree on Jace, but that's ok.   

Hardly anyone will ever agree on jace or his relevance. Kind of like how noone will ever agree on mishras relevance