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Author Topic: Time Walk in Doomsday  (Read 5343 times)
psyburat
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« on: April 10, 2013, 06:07:43 pm »

Let's have a little fun, shall we?

I've been playing Doomsday at a reasonable number of tournaments over the past few months.  I've made a few changes to the deck here or there, some to fit my playing style, others to fit my metagame.  Gatecrash hit shelves, and I was blessed with the biggest enemy to both Tinker and Dark Confidant since Force of Will in Dimir Charm.  I still have a long way to go in terms of honing my craft with the deck, and for that matter the pillar of Dark Ritual decks, but I like how far I've come so far.

I've stumbled across a bit of a problem, however.  It appears that one of blue's most powerful spells, Time Walk, is not that powerful at all in this deck.  In fact, one of my recurring jokes is that of my sideboarding policy.  I'll show players that I boarded out my anti-Workshop cards, which I designate as Steel Sabotage, Hurkyl's Recall, and Time Walk, for when I play against non-Workshop decks game two and three.  It really only acts as a Explore-variant.

So, internet, I ask you this:  what card should I play instead of Time Walk?  Many cards, both jokes and realistic possibilities, have crossed my mind.  Do I play a maindeck Duress or a third Flusterstorm?  Do I play Lim-Dul's Vault to craft the top of my library?  Do I play Human Frailty to troll people?  Do I add the wonder that is Dimir Charm to my maindeck?  Most importantly, have I been undervaluing or under-utilizing Time Walk?

If the scope of the topic extends beyond Time Walk's inclusion in the deck, so be it.  I hope to someday provide a comprehensive guide on how to pilot the deck, since one doesn't seem to be readily available, but that must wait until after my semester is over.

For reference, this is the list I piloted at my last two events:

Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog

MAINDECK:

1 Laboratory Maniac

4 Dark Ritual
4 Doomsday
4 Force of Will
4 Gush
4 Mental Misstep
4 Preordain
2 Flusterstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Fastbond
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Imperial Seal
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Ponder
1 Steel Sabotage
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Time Walk
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will

1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire

4 Flooded Strand
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Underground Sea
1 Island
1 Tropical Island

SIDEBOARD:

3 Hurkyl's Recall
3 Steel Sabotage
2 Dimir Charm
2 Duress
2 Island
1 Dismember
1 Extirpate
1 Mana Vault
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InfectedMushroom
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« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2013, 07:20:47 pm »

We both know how the workshop matchups go. I have recently been going to a more mana heavy list to help.  Time Walk is really not that great in the deck. I would add the 3rd Flusterstorm or if you want mana, Mox Emerald.
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d8dk32
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« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2013, 11:37:10 pm »

I like time walk in doomsday, but sometimes it is just explore. However, might I suggest Necropotence in its place if you don't like it? since you have the rituals you can use it unlike some gush doomsday decks without rituals.
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Samoht
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« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2013, 11:40:03 pm »

Bargain/Necro is a nombo with Lab Maniac.

Time Walk is generally worse than any other spell you could play. You might want another cheap instant speed draw spell, but once DD fires you should be fine there. Flusterstorm makes sense. The miser's Misdirection could be solid as well. Where do you feel you need the most help?
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d8dk32
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« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2013, 12:42:20 am »

Bargain/Necro is a nombo with Lab Maniac.

Time Walk is generally worse than any other spell you could play. You might want another cheap instant speed draw spell, but once DD fires you should be fine there. Flusterstorm makes sense. The miser's Misdirection could be solid as well. Where do you feel you need the most help?

Bargain/Necro are only nonmbos with Maniac if you are relying on your draw step to win the game. This almost never happens in doomsday, since the maniac isn't on the board until you have the tools to draw it. If you have to put the maniac down after doomsday and still wait a turn you're doing it wrong. I have played necro in maniac doomsday and have found it to be fantastic. bargain is too expensive, but a t1 ritual->necro almost guarantees at t2 win. Also, you don't need to win with maniac. Tendrils works just fine.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 02:08:02 am by d8dk32 » Logged
Smmenen
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« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2013, 03:09:36 am »

Although I ran Time Walk in my original list I played at the Waterbury, I cut it in the last build I played in tournament, when I won the Meandeck Open in March, 2012: http://www.morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=1577&highlight=1#place1

I cut it for the reasons you said.  The main reason I had kept it, aside from situationally Time Walking with Xantid Swarm/Trygon, is that it's good with Gush.  You can play turn two Time Walk, and accelerate to your third turn and Gush for value.  Also, you can use Time Walk post a regular Gush to redeploy a second land.  I probably wouldn't play Time Walk in the deck, and I have extremely high regard for Time Walk. 
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DubDub
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« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2013, 10:31:20 am »

Might I suggest Frantic Search?
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« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2013, 12:59:09 pm »

There's no argument here that Time Walk hasn't ever been the best card in the deck, and often it's been very lack luster, but I have been reluctant to cut it for two main reasons.

1. Is its synergy with Gush as Steve said.  Being able to have Gush act as a draw two with almost no down side because of the additional land drop is very useful.

2. It's role in DD piles is unique.  No other card can do everything it does when you need it to simultaneously like dodge misstep, draw a single card, add mana (assuming you're tapped down), protect against Jace, etc.

2a. There is also the somewhat relevant, although niche, unique affect of being the only draw spell that you can use to enter a DD pile that you can before you give away the information that you are casting DD.  Again, not that big of deal, but worth noting, I think.
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Smmenen
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« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2013, 02:11:40 pm »

There's no argument here that Time Walk hasn't ever been the best card in the deck, and often it's been very lack luster, but I have been reluctant to cut it for two main reasons.

1. Is its synergy with Gush as Steve said.  Being able to have Gush act as a draw two with almost no down side because of the additional land drop is very useful.

2. It's role in DD piles is unique.  No other card can do everything it does when you need it to simultaneously like dodge misstep, draw a single card, add mana (assuming you're tapped down), protect against Jace, etc.

2a. There is also the somewhat relevant, although niche, unique affect of being the only draw spell that you can use to enter a DD pile that you can before you give away the information that you are casting DD.  Again, not that big of deal, but worth noting, I think.

This is true.  There are actually a very few, but rare DDay piles where Time Walk is a necessary solution.  I mentioned one of these in my original primer. 
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ramrodjon
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« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2013, 07:02:20 pm »

Mykie - if Time Walk's got ya down, play Noble Fish...it misses you!
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psyburat
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« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2013, 08:05:33 pm »

We both know how the workshop matchups go. I have recently been going to a more mana heavy list to help.  Time Walk is really not that great in the deck. I would add the 3rd Flusterstorm or if you want mana, Mox Emerald.

How many heavy have you gotten?  I wouldn't be too thrilled with another Mox, if anything I'd run another fetchland or basic, since I rarely find value in colorless mana.  This is even truer since I'd be cutting a colorless mana sink to play it.

I like time walk in doomsday, but sometimes it is just explore. However, might I suggest Necropotence in its place if you don't like it? since you have the rituals you can use it unlike some gush doomsday decks without rituals.

As nice as Necropotence is, it creates a huge lack of synergy, and basically pigeonholes me into the Tendrils plan if it resolves.  Due to this deck being a Doomsday deck first and a storm deck second, I'd rather avoid being pushed into Plan B by a card I've decided to include.

Bargain/Necro is a nombo with Lab Maniac.

Time Walk is generally worse than any other spell you could play. You might want another cheap instant speed draw spell, but once DD fires you should be fine there. Flusterstorm makes sense. The miser's Misdirection could be solid as well. Where do you feel you need the most help?

Card selection is certainly my biggest downfall, which is why I opt for Ponder in my build.  I'm very tempted to start dipping into the likes of Sleight of Hand and Serum Visions, or perhaps into nonsense such as Predict.

Although I ran Time Walk in my original list I played at the Waterbury, I cut it in the last build I played in tournament, when I won the Meandeck Open in March, 2012: http://www.morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=1577&highlight=1#place1

I cut it for the reasons you said.  The main reason I had kept it, aside from situationally Time Walking with Xantid Swarm/Trygon, is that it's good with Gush.  You can play turn two Time Walk, and accelerate to your third turn and Gush for value.  Also, you can use Time Walk post a regular Gush to redeploy a second land.  I probably wouldn't play Time Walk in the deck, and I have extremely high regard for Time Walk. 

I'm really happy that you've decided to state all the ways that it's awesome, and then punctuate it with how it's cuttable.  That is the same problem that I've been running into, where I know why it's in the deck, but those situations just never seem to come up.  This weekend will decide how I feel without it in my deck.

Might I suggest Frantic Search?

You may, but I'll decline.  Three lands is a lot in a Gush deck.

There's no argument here that Time Walk hasn't ever been the best card in the deck, and often it's been very lack luster, but I have been reluctant to cut it for two main reasons.

1. Is its synergy with Gush as Steve said.  Being able to have Gush act as a draw two with almost no down side because of the additional land drop is very useful.

2. It's role in DD piles is unique.  No other card can do everything it does when you need it to simultaneously like dodge misstep, draw a single card, add mana (assuming you're tapped down), protect against Jace, etc.

2a. There is also the somewhat relevant, although niche, unique affect of being the only draw spell that you can use to enter a DD pile that you can before you give away the information that you are casting DD.  Again, not that big of deal, but worth noting, I think.

It's true, having a draw spell that you play before Doomsday to get into your pile is unique.  I'm just not sure it's unique enough to warrant inclusion at this stage.  I just find myself cycling with it far too often.  Once again, hopefully this weekend I'll see if I miss it.
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d8dk32
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« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2013, 09:24:51 pm »

As nice as Necropotence is, it creates a huge lack of synergy, and basically pigeonholes me into the Tendrils plan if it resolves.  Due to this deck being a Doomsday deck first and a storm deck second, I'd rather avoid being pushed into Plan B by a card I've decided to include.

I don't see how it pigeonholes you into the storm plan. You don't need to use the draw step to win with maniac. And it doesn't force you to try to be Long.dec either. If you haven't tried it and just reject it on a theoretical basis, i recommend you try it. If you don't like it, that's cool. But if nothing else you'll find that it really doesn't create a lack of synergy.
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