Notion Thief

[Guli]

Let me start this one! I expected 1 more good human from this set. I believe this is it.



I like this effect a lot. The Flash ability is extremely relevant and so is the 3 power.


I will add more to the discussion once you people put in your thoughts!

[Wagner]

So Plagiarize on a very decent body, not bad at all.
Soooo unfortunable Brainstorm and Thirst are restricted though.

[MaximumCDawg]

Ooooohhhh Chains of Mephistopheles just got a new little buddy.

This is a very, very, very well-designed card.  If it was missing either the Flash or the relevant power, I would consider it unplayable at 4cc.  But having the ability to "counter" card drawing effects, or flash in and kill a Lodestone... those things make this very interesting.

This seems absolutely playable.

[Guli]

So Plagiarize on a very decent body, not bad at all.
Soooo unfortunable Brainstorm and Thirst are restricted though.

Jace and Gush are not restricted though. Griselbrand/Necro/Bargain do not work.

Bazaar is shut off I think, but the rule experts should confirm this one.

It stops the Lab Maniac decks for a turn, giving us time to remove the win condition, and milling them as a result.

Flash is important when trying to beat a resolved standstill at end of their turn.


I fooled around with Maralen a lot, I know how strong it is to stop the 'draw a card' mechanic.

[A.-1.]

Standstill isn't restricted either.

If you would play this guy in response to a Bazaar activation, the opponent would only get to discard three. The way I understand it, they would not get an opportunity to Dredge.

I don't know how good this guy will be in Vintage, but it definitely deserves a spot in Type 4  .

[wiley]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you would get to dredge with bazaar.  It is the same situation as uba mask; there are two replacement effects trying to replace the draw, the affected player chooses which one to do.

Still, with flash it is a nice answer to jacestorm.  Not crazy about the mana cost since 4 drops seem to be overpopulated as is, but still a good card.

[Saya]

CMC 4 is supposed to be connected directly with victory like Jace or Gifts.
This guy is good,but too situational.

[msg67183]

This guy plus Cavern says LOL to Griselbrand!!!

[brianpk80]

This thing is outrageous.  Cavern helps ensure it resolves and unless it's Bolted/Plowed on the spot, it's a 7 for 1 v. Ancestral, 9 for 1 v. Brainstorm/Jacestorm (they don't draw 3, you do draw 3, you get 1 creature, and they get Stunted Growth for 2), 7, 8, or 9 for 1 v. Thirst for Knowledge, 7 for 1 v. Gush, 3 for 1 v. Probe, Ponder, Preordain, 4 for 1 v. Sensei's Divining Top, 16 for 1 v. Griselbrand, 15 for 1 with or versus Wheel of Fortune/Timetwister/Memory Jar, ? for 1 with or against Windfall/Whispering Madness, and ? for 1 against Yawgmoth's Bargain.  Necro is unaffected.   

It turns Arcane Denial which is already useful into "Counter target spell and draw three cards at the beginning of next turn's upkeep."

For Dredge, the affected player chooses the replacement effect so it would not be effective unless there were less than two Dredgers in the graveyard. 

It won't stop Standstill from breaking the opponent's way after a trigger because of the way it's worded, so the use here as Guli mentioned is flashing him in at EoT to force a discard down to 7. 

CMC 4 is supposed to be connected directly with victory like Jace or Gifts.
This guy is good,but too situational.

Wrong.  There was a serious discussion on this site debating the inclusion of Plagiarize as a control mirror tactic during the Gifts era and that was before Jace TMS even existed.  The CMC comparisons you mention are exclusive to blue and don't consider the role this plays in a Cavern deck.  Anytime you 9 for 1 an opponent, that is very much connected "directly with victory." 

If it was missing either the Flash or the relevant power, I would consider it unplayable at 4cc.  But having the ability to "counter" card drawing effects, or flash in and kill a Lodestone... those things make this very interesting.

Exactly.  And when Cavern of Souls limits the opponent's available responses to instant speed spot removal (which some blue decks don't even maindeck) and Thalia is further interfering with that, it's backbreaking. 

I'll have to test it.  The CC is prohibitive but we have 4 mana available on Turn 2 fairly often and almost always by Turn 3.   

[DubDub]

Arcane Denial has a 'may'.

[credmond]

Definitely interesting. While strong for human caverns list, coming in at 4 mana limits its usefullness for that archetype.

Seems like where it would be really insanely strong is in Bomberman lists running a couple of caverns. Keeping 4 mana up is easier for Bomberman.

What happens when both you and your opponent have one in play?

[A.-1.]

What happens when both you and your opponent have one in play?

7/15/2007    If you and your opponent each cast Plagiarize on each other during the same turn, the two spells effectively cancel each other out. You will draw cards when you normally would and so will your opponent.

[Stormanimagus]

The thing this card does is give you a truly good anti-blue card in a deck that was crutching on Thalia perhaps too much to beat blue and combo. This shits on those decks pretty badly. I think this may convince me to go 5-C humans rather than GWB humans and perhaps *gasp* to abandon the Knight plan for this guy. Solid Solid card. Needs a good accel package though to thrive.

-Storm

[brianpk80]

The thing this card does is give you a truly good anti-blue card in a deck that was crutching on Thalia perhaps too much to beat blue and combo. This shits on those decks pretty badly. I think this may convince me to go 5-C humans rather than GWB humans and perhaps *gasp* to abandon the Knight plan for this guy. Solid Solid card. Needs a good accel package though to thrive.

Interesting you mention Thalia who is of course instrumental in those matches, but I always thought Stony Silence was the big trump v. blue Vault/combo.  Combo gets a lot easier if one sideboards Traps and Ethersworn Canonist. 

I wonder whether we could expand on acceleration w. Ancient Tombs.  I've tried a few before and had some in sideboards to offset Workshops. 

Arcane Denial has a 'may'.

Ah, that's right.  Time heals all wounds and erases most rules text.    There must be some other cards that let an opponent draw as a "drawback."   

[Stormanimagus]

I wonder whether we could expand on acceleration w. Ancient Tombs.  I've tried a few before and had some in sideboards to offset Workshops. 

I beat you to it. All my latest builds of 'Humans' run 3 Deathrite Shaman as added accel. I've found Shaman to be far more instrumental at beating shops than ancient tomb and against other decks it has obvious advantages over tomb (stopping snapcaster mage in its tracks and giving you access to all 4 colors). I highly recommend you try 3 D. Shamans in the 75. I don't think you'll regret it.

-Storm

[Protoaddict]

Grissel can beat this if your opponent is up on life enough, as you can pay 7 after they add this to stack in response to the first and draw a counter (if it was not caverns) or a swords or other removal and then swords it after it resolves but before the second draw 7 happens.

But yea, still seems playable.

[wiley]

Seems like a good way to break Teferi's Puzzle Box or effects like Whirlpool Warrior and Vendilion Clique.  Even the symmetrical draw cards like horn of greed, howling mine and anvil of bogardan could make use out of this, but all those are less likely to be good on their own.

[evouga]

flash in and kill a Lodestone

If you are worried about the Golem, you probably don't have the 5 or 6 mana lying around needed to flash this guy in...

[tribet]

Arcane Denial has a 'may'.

Ah, that's right.  Time heals all wounds and erases most rules text.    There must be some other cards that let an opponent draw as a "drawback."    

There are many combo indeed other than Wheel of Fortune, Timetwister, Howling Mine, Prosperity,........

What about?

[tribet]

and people won't misdirect your Acalls anymore!

[MTGFan]

Wow.

This guy is amazing and will probably see lots of play in both eternal formats.

The 4 mana casting cost is a bit of a sticking point but his ability is absolutely first-rate. And to be able to flash him into play in response to a draw spell is back-breaking for the opponent.

His "Human" type paired with Cavern makes him deadly for opposing control players.

[StanleyAugust]

I could definitely see this as a sideboard card in Confidant/Grixis control. I don't think it will stick in Fish.

[Guli]

Shocker does create a lock with this guy. But I don't think it is worth it.

Against dredge it does not do a lot, because it doesn't say 'players can not draw cards'. Not static, but a replacement effect.


This card has more impact than you guys think. It is actually a GOOD card against bomberman because they rely on Jace and Sensei a lot more than meets the eye.

[xouman]

4CC is quite a lot, but having flashback and having so great impact in some pairings make it quite interesting. A true predator on jace, cards like burning inquiry, winds of change, windmill get some value.

It needs acceleration indeed, but it is probably worth it.

[Sloth]

I'm surprised that people still talk about using this card in the sideboard or against opponents cards. This is not a hate card. Forget Humans.

This card is an insane draw engine combined with cards that are borderline playable already: Timetwister, Words of Wisdom, Jace Beleren.

I would build a heavy blue control deck with lots of pitch counters, Notion Thief, broken black stuff and said cards.

[StanleyAugust]

I'm surprised that people still talk about using this card in the sideboard or against opponents cards. This is not a hate card. Forget Humans.

This card is an insane draw engine combined with cards that are borderline playable already: Timetwister, Words of Wisdom, Jace Beleren.

I would build a heavy blue control deck with lots of pitch counters, Notion Thief, broken black stuff and said cards.

So when I Bolt or counter your Notion Thief, you're left with a deck consisting of borderline playable cards?

[Sloth]

So when I Bolt or counter your Notion Thief, you're left with a deck consisting of borderline playable cards?

You're welcome to play bolt against this kind of deck. As a starting point for testing:

Restricted stuff + combo parts (21):
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Tinker

Protection (12):
4 Force of Will
3 Mental Misstep
2 Mana Drain
1 Misdirection
1 Echoing Truth
1 Steel Sabotage

Engine (11):
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Jace Beleren
4 Words of Wisdom
4 Notion Thief

Lands (16):
2 Flooded Strand
5 Island
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
2 Underground Sea

[gkraigher]

I always like it when they print new rogues.  When morningtide came out, I made a vintage rogue deck and it wasn't all that bad.  The format was different, and jester's capping your opponent's time vault usually meant winning the game.  Bloodghast, Jace, and Lodestone Golem had yet to be printed.  Mud, Control Slaver, Time Vault Control were the big decks at the time.  

The core of the deck was this:

4 Dark Rituals
4 frogtosser bannerer
4 Earwig Squads
4 Oona's Blackguard
1 Necropotence

And now you get to add notion thief which is a perfect fit for the deck.  They have also errated goblin vandal to be a rogue, which is huge.  

Other Notable Rogues:

Notion Thief
Goblin Vandal
Bitterblossom
Morsel Theft  (this was actually one of the better cards in the deck, seriously)
Latchkey Fairie
faerie macabre
nezumi graverobber
master thief


I had originally included blue in the deck for ancestral recall and timewalk.  Latchkey Fairie was also played, but I think the rest of the cards were black.  

I still think Earwig Squad is an amazing Vintage card.  It can still destroy almost every deck in the field except for Mud.  Oona's Blackguard's ability stacks, so having two in play, with one creature attacking the opponent discards two cards.  

At the very least, I feel this deck has the potential to be decent as a Powerless Vintage deck.  

oh and I almost forgot, they also printed Cavern of Souls.  I'd play a set of those.  

[MaximumCDawg]

Ah, Rogues.  I like them, but I think you're missing a few critical Rogue enablers:

Invisible Stalker
Sihana Ledgewalker
Prickly Boggart

These guys fill a critical role in making sure you are dropping evasive Rogues fast, which keeps Prowl turned on.  Once you are playing Stalker / Ledgewalker, some Swords of Whatever/Whatever become interesting, too.

[Blue Lotus]

This thing with standstill seems to fun.