Budget deck for sanctioned.

[John Cox]

Vintage champs looks amazing this year but I lack the cards to play at a sanctioned tournament. Regardless I've decided to do my best to go. I have a budget of about $1000 to spend on a deck, some decks I have most of the staples for. I don't wan't to play dredge if I can help it mainly because I have no experience post board and getting that in will be difficult.
What would be the best deck?
From what I can tell the main options are merfolk, maybe landstill (budget concerns)and maybe dark times with Thespian Stage.
Is there anything else?
Thanks in advance,
John.

[Protoaddict]

The answer is still dredge. Anything else will require a lotus and minimum 1 mox, and there goes your budget.

[KIP_NZ]

What do you play in legacy? Got something that could be powered up?

[TheWhiteDragon]

Your best bet is dark times.  Dredge is easily hated out and if you don't know how to sb with it, you'll lose g 2/3 all the time.  Dark times is BEST with a lotus/jet, but if you can at least spring for the jet, you can get the seizes/bobs for about $350 and the jet for around $350....which leaves $300 for the rest of the deck.  4 dark rituals and lotus petal alleviate the need for lotus so much.  duress, unmask, hymn can all be used and are cheap.  Dark depths cost about 40-60 a playset.  Hexmages and stages are cheap.  Vamp tutor, demonic, and consultation will run you about $25 together.  No need for imperial seal.  You COULD run 4 wastes + strip + null rods + crucibles, and then you're looking at another $150 OR you could just go for strip mine and null rod and use pithing needles to protect against wasteland (and they also stop jace!) for around $50 all together.  Then you could add in 2-3 liliana of the veil, which are hitting at $40 a pop now.  I also like a playset of gatekeeper of malakir - real cheap and really effective - to beat aggro, give you some beaters, and cause your opponent to sac that tinkered robot.  Your sb could include some needles and rods and 4 leyline of the void.  You'll have a rough time against MUD and possibly oath.  I board in ratchet bombs which help.  Also, porcelain legionaire is good vs MUD.  That's about it for the 60+15 and it runs you about $1000 even for a solid list missing only black lotus (which you can do fine without).

For reference, here is a list sans lotus that is fairly powerful and affordable:

// Lands
    3  Dark Depths
    2  Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    1  Strip Mine
    4  Bloodstained Mire
    6  Swamp
    1  Cavern of Souls
    3  Thespian's Stage
    1  Verdant Catacombs

// Creatures
    4  Dark Confidant
    4  Vampire Hexmage
    3  Gatekeeper of Malakir
    2  Deathrite Shaman

// Spells
    4  Duress
    1  Demonic Consultation
    1  Demonic Tutor
    1  Vampiric Tutor
    3  Dark Ritual
    1  Mox Jet
    2  Thoughtseize
    2  Liliana of the Veil
    3  Null Rod
    4  Hymn to Tourach (4)
    4  Pithing Needle

// Sideboard
SB: 1  Null Rod
SB: 3  Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1  Sol Ring
SB: 1 [V10] AEther Vial
SB: 3  Ratchet Bomb
SB: 2 Porcelain Legionnaire
SB: 4  Leyline of the Void

[xouman]

Dredge is best option for sure. Even with hate around is a very solid deck, just play a more resilient version.

Looking for really cheap versions, I'll look at:

10th (of 47) - Eduardo Medrano - White Trash

3 Cavern of Souls
3 Ghost Quarter
11 Plains
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Grand Abolisher
2 Jötun Grunt
2 Kataki, War's Wage
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Leonin Relic-Warder
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Student of Warfare
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Grafdigger's Cage
4 Mental Misstep
2 Path to Exile
3 Stony Silence

Sideboard:
3 True Believer
1 Abolish
2 Disenchant
2 Path to Exile
4 Rest in Peace
2 Serenity
1 Tormod's Crypt



One of the best decks shutting mana outside MUD. 8 strips, 6 creatures that punish fetchlands, 3 thalias, revokers+stony silence to shut moxen...Besides is well prepared against MUD with basics, katakis, student, relic warder...
Against dredge you play 8 strips and 5 Sb cards.
Tarmos are hard imho, and if you expect a lot sb SFM with batterskull.

Haven't play this deck but in LCV gets nice results from time to time,

[Prospero]

TheWhiteDragon makes an excellent post worth strongly considering.  Elves! is an option as well. 

It's unfortunate that the prices on staples are prohibitively high.  I think that, long term, you want to set yourself up where you may need less of the staples because you've already purchased them.  While it's not exactly an easy transition between Merfolk and a power blue deck, picking up copies of Force of Will, Mox Sapphire, Ancestral Recall, Wasteland, etc. potentially puts you in a better spot a few years down the line.  Don't look at this as a one year plan.  While moving from Merfolk to Grixis Control might be tough, moving from Merfolk to U/R Landstill is a lot easier.

If I were you, I'd buy an Ancestral and a Mox Sapphire and work on putting together a functional version of Joel Lim's Merfolk list. 

When most of us got into the format, we bought beat Unlimited power.  We picked up all the cards we needed.  We upgraded our power to nicer Unlimited, then Beta.  We may have foiled out of decks, or picked up all the foreign cards that you could ask for.  It's a process.  I have owned (and played) the same Trinisphere since 2004.  Set yourself up for the next move, after Champs, if you can.

[AmbivalentDuck]

I think that, long term, you want to set yourself up where you may need less of the staples because you've already purchased them

It's hard to imagine a high $$$ new inclusion for Dredge. It seems that purchasing the Bazaars enables you to play Dredge until the day the format dies.

[msg67183]

At the beginning of this year I had Shops staples minus the Moxen, Lotus and Workshops. I ended up selling all of that, and I now own Dredge. The reasoning behind that is now I can play in sanctioned events if I wanted to.
Dredge is a very strong deck and I would definitely recommend it if you are looking for "budget".
The list I have had the most success with is the following:

4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Undiscovered Paradise
4 Petrified Field
2 Dakmor Salvage
4 Serum Powder
4 Bridge from Below
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Mental Misstep
4 Unmask
3 Leyline of the Void
3 Darkblast
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Thug
4 Ichorid
4 Bloodghast
4 Narcomoeba

Sideboard:
4 City of Brass
4 Ingot Chewer
4 Nature's Claim
3 Wispmare

It fights hate well as well as being able to stop brokenness with Mental Misstep, Cabal Therapy and Unmask.
Whatever you decide to do, I wish you luck, and above all, have fun.

[Prospero]

I think that, long term, you want to set yourself up where you may need less of the staples because you've already purchased them

It's hard to imagine a high $$$ new inclusion for Dredge. It seems that purchasing the Bazaars enables you to play Dredge until the day the format dies.

Agreed, but most people who play Dredge do so out of necessity, or so it seems to me.  I don't think that he wants to be playing Dredge in five years.

[AmbivalentDuck]

It's something of a meta-tournament consideration, but most of the sanctioned tourneys he'd encounter will be large, long events. There's some real value to playing a deck that makes few real decisions while auto-winning game 1: you get to the end with less decision fatigue because you're only thinking about 1-2 games per match instead of 2-3.

[StanleyAugust]

I came in to mention White Trash, so +1 to whoever mentioned it. It's awesome and fun and can be tuned to most metas.

[John Cox]

Agreed, but most people who play Dredge do so out of necessity, or so it seems to me.  I don't think that he wants to be playing Dredge in five years.

You've hit the nail on the head. I have a lot of stuff for dark times but like the idea of investing in power with the merfolk list. Is there one that would be better in a field like gencon was?

What do you play in legacy? Got something that could be powered up?

I play UR delver for the most part. I have the cards for burning long but not the power , I also have the cards for doomsday, but not the power (ancestral and lotus are key there). I could probably do Grixis and a few other broken blue decks too.  If I had power.

[TheWhiteDragon]

I think that, long term, you want to set yourself up where you may need less of the staples because you've already purchased them

It's hard to imagine a high $$$ new inclusion for Dredge. It seems that purchasing the Bazaars enables you to play Dredge until the day the format dies.

While dredge is a powerful deck, I believe it is not really "budget".  Bazaars (you need 4) run $225 EACH, so 4 of those is $900 off the bat.  You then can ONLY play dredge hereafter.  All of the dredge cards are worthless outside of dredge and you may only use a bazaar or 2 in MUD (which is the priciest deck with 4 workshops and a full set of lotus/5 mox, or in madness (which also requires lotus and 3 or 4 colors of moxen).

Not just that, but you are hated out by any cages, leylines, wastes, needles, etc....and eveyone will have a fair amount of cheap hate in their sb for you.  It costs as much as any budget deck out there - it's actually probably the MOST expensive "budget" deck, and more importantly, I don't feel it gives you a good chance to win in a large, prepared metagame.

Dark times I believe can be built effectively for $1K and offers the BEST chance to win a sizeable tourney(white trash is a close second and much less expensive).  Important to note though is that it leaves you with a jet, staple sb cards, and a playset of seizes/confidants (you can even save $100 by running 4 hymns and 2 seizes as in my list above).  These cards will give you a great base for anything utilizing black and is the most common complement card to blue for the future.  You also get 5 fetchlands out of the deal (and they can be of any colors to what you think you might add next (I prefer green as a cheap, yet powerful ally to black).  You could spring for deltas, though those are pricier if you plan on adding blue at some point.

In summary....

Dredge- cost $1000 or more

Pros:
powerful deck
can win easily in an unprepared environment

Cons:
gives you 4 bazaars, rainbowlands, and a bunch of worthless crap outside of dredge
Easily hated out by a prepared metagame
tricky to sb without diluting the power of the deck

Dark Times - cost $1000 or less (without lotus)

Pros:
Powerful deck
can win in many different environments
very hard to hate out
gives you jet, seizes, confidants, fetchlands, and black staples and sb staples for future use in ANY deck.

Cons:
???

Washes:
similar overall $ cost
Similar speed combo


So looking at your ability to stay on budget, have a GREAT chance to win it all, and to set yourself up NICELY for future decks....it seems a no brainer to me (DT it is).

[AmbivalentDuck]

While dredge is a powerful deck, I believe it is not really "budget".  Bazaars (you need 4) run $225 EACH, so 4 of those is $900 off the bat.  You then can ONLY play dredge hereafter.  All of the dredge cards are worthless outside of dredge and you may only use a bazaar or 2 in MUD (which is the priciest deck with 4 workshops and a full set of lotus/5 mox, or in madness (which also requires lotus and 3 or 4 colors of moxen).

They're trading cards. It's silly to suggest that they can't be sold to regain your $$$ investment or traded for P9.

[TheWhiteDragon]

While dredge is a powerful deck, I believe it is not really "budget".  Bazaars (you need 4) run $225 EACH, so 4 of those is $900 off the bat.  You then can ONLY play dredge hereafter.  All of the dredge cards are worthless outside of dredge and you may only use a bazaar or 2 in MUD (which is the priciest deck with 4 workshops and a full set of lotus/5 mox, or in madness (which also requires lotus and 3 or 4 colors of moxen).

They're trading cards. It's silly to suggest that they can't be sold to regain your $$$ investment or traded for P9.

All my other points still stand...and with DT you have a bunch of staples instead of having to trade and hoping to get full value on a trade.  Plus, I really think in a larger, prepared field, DT has the better chance to win.

[AmbivalentDuck]

In the abstract, maybe. Dark Times has to earn most of its wins. That's decision fatigue over a long event. The only reason I might favor DT in an event like this is the ability to support maindeck Leyline against a field that ought to be Dredge heavy and get the same "oops I win" effect.

[TheWhiteDragon]

To me, dark times is one of the easiest to pilot.  Drop bobs, cast disruption, get the combo...gg.  with stages now too, finding the combo is even easier.  It is less thought intensive than dredge wwhere timing makes a difference and sbing properly is perhaps the most knowledge intensive deck in vintage.

[John Cox]

To me, dark times is one of the easiest to pilot.  Drop bobs, cast disruption, get the combo...gg.  with stages now too, finding the combo is even easier.  It is less thought intensive than dredge wwhere timing makes a difference and sbing properly is perhaps the most knowledge intensive deck in vintage.

Hehe, I've been known to forget to flip delvers and miss oath activations. I'll agree that dredge is a better deck if built on $1000, but I really have doubts about my ability to pilot it. In the end I would like to play a broken blue or control deck with power so I think making something different makes more sense as a stepping stone.

[xouman]

If you wanna end playing Big Blue, then merfolks could be the best budget deck. I played it with faeries (spellstutter, vendillion, mutavault) some years ago, until lodestone appeared. It was quite solid against control decks quite decent against mud until lodestone, but had a problem with dredge. Against oath it was highly favored unless opponent opened with oath.

Merfolks can be upgraded with lotus, sapphire, ancestral and time walk, so you can fetch them at your pace, improving your deck and your Vintage pool

[TheWhiteDragon]

If you were set on blue control, then it seems Merfolk was your choice from the start.  That said, vintage merfolk is best with sapphire, FoWs which puts you at $800 already.  Add in mutavaults and wastelands and you'r approaching $1000.  That's without time walk, ancestral, and the actual merfolk or the blue fetches that thin your deck (the blues are most expensive).  If you are trying to crack into Vintage competitively and build a nice vintage base of staples...i still say dark times is best.  Blue is just so damn expensive that I refuse to play it anymore.  Ancestral, Walk, Twister, and Sapphire are the cost of all the other moxen put together.  I could buy the best of 4 colors for what it costs to play blue.  I always tell my friends to get into vintage with a pair of non-blue colors.  They are viable and competitive while costing a fraction of blue alone.

[msg67183]

WhiteDragon:
He says he already has most of the cards already. Meaning his budget only needs the power for Merfolk, if I read correctly.

[TheWhiteDragon]

If it's the case that he already has FoWs and Vials and Caverns and blue fetches and mutavaults - and just needs the power - then it makes sense to play merfolk.  But if that was the case, I don't see the point in opening this thread.

*edit* - he actually says he has a lot of stuff for Dark Times, making the case for it even stronger.

[John Cox]

If it's the case that he already has FoWs and Vials and Caverns and blue fetches and mutavaults - and just needs the power - then it makes sense to play merfolk.  But if that was the case, I don't see the point in opening this thread.

*edit* - he actually says he has a lot of stuff for Dark Times, making the case for it even stronger.

I have most of the stuff for a lot of decks. The point of this thread was to find new decks (like the elves Prospero mentioned) and figure out what made the most sense in the meta game. To be honest I have less for merfolk than dark times, but it's a deck I can play in other formats so it makes sense to invest a bit further in it. I'm testing dark times, merfolk, elves and a few self brewed decks together tonight to see which I like the feel of the most.

Thank you, very much guys.

[Ozymandias]

I would recommend The Mountains Win Again (mono-red moons/rods/hate-creatures)as an excellent option, particularly if your local metagame hews to Big Blue/Shops/Dredge. The most expensive card in the deck behind the (largely optional, since you are running Rods anyhow) Mox Ruby and Black Lotus is City of Traitors, and after that it's all sub-10 dollar cards. If there is a large amount of Oath or Fish, you might want to pick another deck, though both matchups are winnable.

[rpf5029]

If it's the case that he already has FoWs and Vials and Caverns and blue fetches and mutavaults - and just needs the power - then it makes sense to play merfolk.  But if that was the case, I don't see the point in opening this thread.

*edit* - he actually says he has a lot of stuff for Dark Times, making the case for it even stronger.

I have most of the stuff for a lot of decks. The point of this thread was to find new decks (like the elves Prospero mentioned) and figure out what made the most sense in the meta game. To be honest I have less for merfolk than dark times, but it's a deck I can play in other formats so it makes sense to invest a bit further in it. I'm testing dark times, merfolk, elves and a few self brewed decks together tonight to see which I like the feel of the most.

Thank you, very much guys.

I just wanted to chime in really quick, based on what Prospero mentioned about Elves!  Elves is very cheap, yes, but not very resilient in a world with oodles of Mental Missteps, Lighting Bolts, and Pyroclasms to defeat Fish-type decks.  In my experience, Elves! also gets rolled by Workshops pretty much all the time.  I love my little green dudes, but I would advise staying away from Elves! if possible. 

On the bright side, Elves! can do very well against random decks, and people who don't really understand how it works.

Best of luck finding a deck, and I hope to see you at the Eternal Weekend!

[Protoaddict]

If you really think about this thread, here's the catch with what your trying to do.

In my opinion, any established deck OTHER than dredge requires the following to be considered A tourney viable deck and not something that falls under the "un-powered" category:
Lotus
One on color Mox

This is obviously for the sake of a one color deck. People have tried for years and years to justify a reason not to run these cards in the appropriate decks, but it typically fails every time. Even White trash, a deck in where its core pieces do nothing but hose Moxen and lotus, runs a pearl and Lotus.

Were I you, what I might want to consider is to find a tourney that has a good amount of prizing for un-powered decks, and try to build whatever un-powered deck would do best when compared to other un-powered decks (which may very well be elves now), because even if you don't win the tourney you may win that un-powered bracket.

[vaughnbros]

If you really think about this thread, here's the catch with what your trying to do.

In my opinion, any established deck OTHER than dredge requires the following to be considered A tourney viable deck and not something that falls under the "un-powered" category:
Lotus
One on color Mox

This is obviously for the sake of a one color deck. People have tried for years and years to justify a reason not to run these cards in the appropriate decks, but it typically fails every time. Even White trash, a deck in where its core pieces do nothing but hose Moxen and lotus, runs a pearl and Lotus.

Were I you, what I might want to consider is to find a tourney that has a good amount of prizing for un-powered decks, and try to build whatever un-powered deck would do best when compared to other un-powered decks (which may very well be elves now), because even if you don't win the tourney you may win that un-powered bracket.

To have a truly optimal deck list yes you probably need lotus and an on color mox for everything except dredge, but there are certainly decks where power isn't that important.  The aggro decks with no CA, and chalice/null rod/stoney silence don't really lose a whole lot from playing basic mountain over lotus.  Christmas beatings, TMWA, White trash and other variants like this all fall into this category, and it just so happens that nearly every other card is either played a lot in other formats or is less than $5.

[AmbivalentDuck]

Lotus is an important card in every deck that casts spells. Don't kid yourself.

[Purple Hat]

if you don't mind getting randomly rolled by resolved null rod sometimes you could always rock affinity.  the new legend rules make mox opal much better for you, and the deck is cheap and powerful enough to compete with just about anything as long as you don't hit null rod....and you can always luck into tolarian or cradle when they play null rod.

[Bibendum]

Lotus is an important card in every deck that casts spells. Don't kid yourself.

Terra Nova would like a word with you, as would about 30% of other shop builds.