[TO Report] 7.20.13 - $2,000 Vintage Event - Part of TDG's 2013 Eternal Series

[psyburat]

Thank you to everyone who came out for this event!  We look forward to seeing you all again on SUNDAY, August 18th!

Metagame

Affinity: 1
Baleful Richards: 3
Battershops: 2
Bob-Jace (UBR): 2
Boberman: 1
Bomberman: 1
BUG Fish: 2
Burning Oath: 2
Blue Angels: 1
Cavern Humans: 1
Demon Oath: 1
Doomsday: 1
Dredge: 1
Landstill: 3
Maniac Dredge: 1
Noble Fish: 1
Pitch Long: 2
Robot Oath: 1
White Trash: 1

Playoffs

Mark Kinney (Baleful Richards) defeats Lance Ballester (Maniac Dredge)
Dominic Difebo (BUG Fish) defeats Thomas Dixon (Baleful Richards)
Matt Elias (Burning Oath) defeats Joel Lim (Blue Angels)
Shawn Griffiths (Baleful Richards) defeats Allen Fulmer (Pitch Long)

Dominic Difebo defeats Matt Elias
Mark Kinney defeats Shawn Griffiths

Dominic Difebo defeats Mark Kinney

Decklists

Dominic Difebo
Winner
"BUG Fish"

4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Trygon Predator
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Scavenging Ooze

4 Force of Will
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Mental Misstep
2 Mana Drain
2 Thoughtseize
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Flusterstorm
1 Mind Twist
1 Pernicous Deed
1 Steel Sabotage
1 Strip Mine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Time Walk
1 Vampiric Tutor

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire

4 Polluted Delta
4 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
3 Wasteland
2 Verdant Catacombs

SB:
4 Nature's Claim
3 Dismember
3 Yixlid Jailer
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Flusterstorm
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Thrun, the Last Troll

Mark Kinney
Finalist
"Hashtag Crosis"

4 Baleful Strix
4 Dark Confidant
3 Goblin Welder
1 Myr Battlesphere

4 Force of Will
3 Mana Drain
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Mental Misstep
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Batterskull
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Fire // Ice
1 Intuition
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Skullclamp
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Time Vault
1 Tinker
1 Voltaic Key

1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring

4 Scalding Tarn
3 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
2 Island
2 Volcanic Island
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Tolarian Academy

SB:
3 Ingot Chewer
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Darkblast
1 Dimir Charm
1 Mountain
1 Staff of Nin
1 Thoughtseize
1 Wurmcoil Engine

Shawn Griffiths
Semifinalist
"Kinney Strix"

4 Baleful Strix
4 Dark Confidant
3 Goblin Welder
1 Myr Battlesphere

4 Force of Will
3 Mana Drain
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Mental Misstep
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Intuition
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Skullclamp
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Time Vault
1 Tinker
1 Voltaic Key

1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring

4 Scalding Tarn
3 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
2 Island
2 Volcanic Island
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Tolarian Academy

SB:
3 Ingot Chewer
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Dimir Charm
1 Executioner's Capsule
1 Mountain
1 Thoughtseize
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Yixlid Jailer

Matt Elias
Semifinalist
"Combo Deck"

2 Griselbrand

4 Burning Wish
4 Dark Ritual
4 Duress
4 Oath of Druids
2 Chrome Mox
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Repeal
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Memory Jar
1 Mind's Desire
1 Necropotence
1 Ponder
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain

1 Black Lotus
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Opal
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring

4 City of Brass
4 Forbidden Orchard
2 Gemstone Mine
1 Tolarian Academy

SB:
3 Ancient Tomb
3 Nature's Claim
2 Defense Grid
1 Balance
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Laboratory Maniac
1 Show and Tell
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Tom Dixon
Quarterfinalist
"Silly Rabbit, Strix Are For Kids!"

4 Dark Confidant
3 Baleful Strix
2 Goblin Welder
1 Gorilla Shaman
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Snapcaster Mage

4 Force of Will
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Mana Drain
2 Gush
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Mental Misstep
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Steel Sabotage
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Time Vault
1 Tinker
1 Voltaic Key

1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring

4 Scalding Tarn
3 Volcanic Island
2 Island
2 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Tolarian Academy

SB:
4 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Ingot Chewer
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Volcanic Fallout
1 Mountain

Lance Ballester
Quarterfinalist
"Dr. Edge's Laboratory"

4 Bloodghast
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Narcomoeba
4 Stinkweed Imp
2 Fatestitcher
2 Griselbrand
2 Laboratory Maniac
1 Sun Titan

4 Dread Return
4 Mental Misstep
4 Serum Powder
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Bridge from Below
2 Darkblast
1 Ancestral Recall

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire

4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 City of Brass
4 Dakmor Salvage
1 Riftstone Portal
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

SB:
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Divining Witch
4 Mayor of Avabruck
1 Dark Confidant
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Vampiric Tutor

Allen Fulmer
Quarterfinalist
"4C Pitch Long"

4 Burning Wish
4 Dark Ritual
4 Force of Wil
2 Cabal Ritual
2 Duress
2 Mental Misstep
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Memory Jar
1 Mind's Desire
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Necropotence
1 Ponder
1 Rebuild
1 Timetwister
1 Tinker
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Windfall
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain

4 City of Brass
3 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
2 Flooded Strand
1 Tolarian Academy

1 Black Lotus
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring

SB:
4 Xantid Swarm
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Tropical Island
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Duress
1 Pyroclasm
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Joel Lim
Quarterfinalist
"Blue Angels"

4 Trinket Mage
3 Restoration Angel
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Aven Mindcensor

4 Force of Will
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Mana Drain
3 Mental Misstep
3 Spell Snare
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Flusterstorm
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Steel Sabotage
1 Time Walk

1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring

4 Flooded Strand
3 Island
3 Tundra
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
1 Tolarian Academy

SB:
4 Rest in Peace
2 Devout Witness
2 Disenchant
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Plains
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Tormod's Crypt

[msg67183]

I guess this proves that Baleful Strix is a card! 3 out of 3 decks top 8.... Seems good

Congrats to the Top 8

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

Congrats to the t8 especially my pals Allen Fulmer and Matthew Elias. Its ashamed the t4 decided to split and then play it out bc it definitely skews results IMO. Less pressure to execute at that point when prize is already accounted for. It's a tournament damn it I want to see nervousness and who plays well with shit on the line! Man up peeps haha. Nevertheless congrats...

[personalbackfire]

Yea def congrats to Allen and Matt! Stoked to see you do well. Nit pick Mike I played Steel City Vault, which isn't pitch long (I'm assuming you had me as the second plong in your meta game breakdown).

[UnderachievementNexus]

I can guarantee that my style of play was no more relaxed or nervous before or after the split. Everyone came out ahead in the split unless you would have won the entire event. Congrats to the Last Troll making an insane game 3 appearance

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

That's certainly true for you Mark lol. Every one on Marks list should name there lists "Mark Kinney's Dick List". Only fitting hahaha

[XxtSundaybxX]

Congrats to the entire top 8. Despite feeling ill, I had a really good time. Most notably playing against you, Mark. It was an entertaining and enjoyable match.

[mr.grim]

Mad props to Dom on the big "W". Props to the rest of the top 8. 
 It was great to see Allen and Steve back in action. I got beat down by my mana crypt game 3 of round 4 and that cost me the cut to top 8. Thanks to TDG and Nick Coss for the great day as always.

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

One of the most fun parts of the day way playing some casual (with vintage deck/s) with Mr Fenton. First we played some handicap games of his broken oath deck vs mono white, that went poorly haha, we then split Fentons deck in half and played against each other. Then finnaly we played some awesome games of FUDUHU. This was a random idea I had to play face up, deck up, and hand up. So at all times you see your opponents hand and top of the library to make all decisions.  It was really fun and quite interesting haha. Good times!

[psyburat]

Congrats to the t8 especially my pals Allen Fulmer and Matthew Elias. Its ashamed the t4 decided to split and then play it out bc it definitely skews results IMO. Less pressure to execute at that point when prize is already accounted for. It's a tournament damn it I want to see nervousness and who plays well with shit on the line! Man up peeps haha. Nevertheless congrats...

If you don't like watching players split than you should win more.

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

Haha I win fairly often but I'll shoot for more lol. People know to not even bring it up when I'm in the top...yup I'm that guy 

[John Jones]

Lol Thats a top 8!

[Samoht]

That's certainly true for you Mark lol. Every one on Marks list should name there lists "Mark Kinney's Dick List". Only fitting hahaha

Luckily I heavily modified his list so much that I don't think I have Mark Kinney's Dick List anywhere near me. I also don't like being classified as Baleful Richards, but that's another can of worms altogether. I've been dubbing it Strixis Control.

edit: Also called Dom winning it all

[UnderachievementNexus]

I would agree that your list is closer to a grixis control list that contains strix and welder

[ModflyDesign]

Hey Tom, it ain't strixin' if you got it.  Congrats to the top 8!

[vaughnbros]

So in my match against Dom during the swiss.  We were discussing how he keeps top 8ing with BUG fish, but never wins.  Congrats to him for finally breaking through!

As always a great event.  And drinks after were definitely eventful to say the least.

[Samoht]

Wow just saw there were 0 Workshop decks. Insane.

And no, Genesis Chamber and Batterskull don't count.

[vaughnbros]

Wow just saw there were 0 Workshop decks. Insane.

And no, Genesis Chamber and Batterskull don't count.

Batterskull certainly counts.  They are still running a pretty significant mana denial package.  With that said it was 5 ritual decks versus 2 workshop decks in the whole field.  I think we definitely need that ban on lodestone golem...

[Samoht]

Wow just saw there were 0 Workshop decks. Insane.

And no, Genesis Chamber and Batterskull don't count.

Batterskull certainly counts.  They are still running a pretty significant mana denial package.  With that it was 4 ritual decks versus 2 workshop decks in the whole field.  We need a ban on lodestone golem immediately.

Batterskull doesn't count.

[vaughnbros]

Wow just saw there were 0 Workshop decks. Insane.

And no, Genesis Chamber and Batterskull don't count.

Batterskull certainly counts.  They are still running a pretty significant mana denial package.  With that it was 4 ritual decks versus 2 workshop decks in the whole field.  We need a ban on lodestone golem immediately.

Batterskull doesn't count.

Elaborate.

[jlim17]

Congrats on the win, Dom! And to the rest of top 8! One of the big draws for me to these TDG events is that I get to battle my wits with many of vintage's top players! My opponents on this day were Dom, Matt Elias, Greg Fenton, Rob Edwards, Mike Egan, and THE Samantha Reichert. I definitely leveled up after this one, and learned a bit more about how to play against/get crushed by Burning Long (thanks, Matt ).

With shops not really showing up, it seems all the storm decks came to the yard! Also amusing that "Baleful Richards" is a deck name that stuck.

[UnderachievementNexus]

I think people just realize that the Mana Drain decks can and have adapted to fighting the Shops. NOt to mention that shops decks are just miserable to pilot and there really isn't much play to them. No card selection just what you draw. I'm not at all surprised to see shops being barely represented. I think it's also a regional thing. New Yorkers enjoy making people miserable. The rest of the East coast enjoys counting to 10. Some of us like to make an entire mockery by playing 62 maindeck cards and stupid SB cards. Champs will have plenty of shops so it will be able to weed out inbred meta decks

[Greg]

One of the most fun parts of the day way playing some casual (with vintage deck/s) with Mr Fenton.

Great times, Josh! That was some of the most fun I've had playing Magic in a while.

This weekend marked my first time heading to Top Deck Games since the NEV Championship, and it was a blast. Looking forward to the next one!

[Samoht]

Wow just saw there were 0 Workshop decks. Insane.

And no, Genesis Chamber and Batterskull don't count.

Batterskull certainly counts.  They are still running a pretty significant mana denial package.  With that it was 4 ritual decks versus 2 workshop decks in the whole field.  We need a ban on lodestone golem immediately.

Batterskull doesn't count.

Elaborate.

No Thorns. No Crucibles. Slow clock. The list has good game against decks that rely on fairly red-zoning. It has a really hard time with decks that are just trying to go over the top. It has a terrible game against Long, Suicide Jace Vault, Grixis, Baleful Richards, and pretty much anything sporting Blue that isn't trying to have multiple attack step victories. It's also heavily reliant on Chalice 0 and the opponent having Moxes or not having Chalice while they don't have Moxes.

[A.-1.]

Terra Nova and Martello don't run Crucible main.

I could agree with a 40/60 split or worse against Strix Control. I'd guess the other decks you listed are 40/60 at worst and probably closer to 45/55. I wouldn't go so far as to say they're terrible.

What are you basing your Chalice assumption on?

[UnderachievementNexus]

To be fair, anytime my opponent plays workshops I feel grossly favored with strixes. Always have and probably will for quite some time. Can't beat turn one trinisphere or crucible strip or waste lock.

[Samoht]

Terra Nova runs all 12 Spheres, and 7 copy effects. It's denial package is the 2nd most stringent.

Martello sits at 11 or so Sphere effects. It also runs Titan/Hellkite to attack again. Revoker splash damage as well.

Those are the considerations those decks make to ensure that opposing spells are hyper expensive.


Long is a terrible MU for you. Their Oath plan is all but unhindered and they have tons of time to set up a storm kill because your clock is so slow. Add in the dirth of Sphere's and they will win most of the game against you.

Suicide Jace Vault will have the fairest match up against you because Tinker -> BSC is somewhat weak against 4 Metamorph. That said if they stick Bob you have a hard time, as you often have to Dismember which gives them a window to play another threat.

First, it's not an assumption. I've tested about 10 games with this against the dominant players in the field. This list folds to Moxes being built out because the mana denial package is so light. If you go Shop - Sphere/Revoker they can just play out some Moxes and be able to play their spells. You're only viable response is Tangle Wire or having a Sphere/Meta. You also have a lot of mana needs that make you susceptible to opposing Wastes, but that's another can of worms. You won't have as many ways to knock that line of play out. If they have no Moxes, and you Chalice 0, you've effectively played a prison piece with no pay off and allow them to build up a board slowly (because you won't kill them before they can cast a CMC 3 spell. This is true of any Chalice 0, but your deck is the current build that gets punished for this the most because your follow up plays aren't that big of a deal against non creature oriented decks. Batterskull is just a 5 turn clock. When I'm taking all of the turns or infecting you, it doesn't matter if you're at 30+. Forgemaster maintains a strangle hold, so the investment of 5 for a 3/5 is for more than just the big guy that comes afterwards, it's the tightening of the noose.

[vaughnbros]

Batterskull doesn't count.

Elaborate.

No Thorns. No Crucibles. Slow clock. The list has good game against decks that rely on fairly red-zoning. It has a really hard time with decks that are just trying to go over the top. It has a terrible game against Long, Suicide Jace Vault, Grixis, Baleful Richards, and pretty much anything sporting Blue that isn't trying to have multiple attack step victories. It's also heavily reliant on Chalice 0 and the opponent having Moxes or not having Chalice while they don't have Moxes.

Regardless of whether you think its bad workshops or good workshops.  Its still shops.  The deck is geared to fight creature decks, which have been more common, not to fight broken blue or combo.  This is obviously a different approach than almost every previous workshop build, but does not make it any less part of the workshop pillar.

10 games is also not a sufficient sample size to measure it against a single deck, and especially not two entire pillars.

[Samoht]

Batterskull doesn't count.

Elaborate.

No Thorns. No Crucibles. Slow clock. The list has good game against decks that rely on fairly red-zoning. It has a really hard time with decks that are just trying to go over the top. It has a terrible game against Long, Suicide Jace Vault, Grixis, Baleful Richards, and pretty much anything sporting Blue that isn't trying to have multiple attack step victories. It's also heavily reliant on Chalice 0 and the opponent having Moxes or not having Chalice while they don't have Moxes.

Regardless of whether you think its bad workshops or good workshops.  Its still shops.  The deck is geared to fight creature decks, which have been more common, not to fight broken blue or combo.  This is obviously a different approach than almost every previous workshop build, but does not make it any less part of the workshop pillar.

10 games is also not a sufficient sample size to measure it against a single deck, and especially not two entire pillars.

That's like calling 2 Card Monte a Shop deck because it plays Mishra's Workshop.

10 Games is more than sufficient to get a strong understanding of how the games will play out. Winning and losing is not the measuring stick, but how the decks interact together. If you are grinding enough games to measure a deck against a field accurately, you don't have a job or do anything other than that between each tournament. Reliable shortcuts have to be taken, and that is all I've done.

[A.-1.]

I can't really penalize you for only playing 10 games with the deck, having only played a handful more than that myself. I'm glad you actually gave the deck a try. After our discussion at the Depot, I didn't think you'd give it a second look.

In the four tournaments I played the deck in, I went 4-4 in games against Burning Long with two match wins. Two of the game losses were misplays on my part that directly resulted in my opponent winning.

Yes, the mana denial package is very light. That's why I've been running three Null Rod in the sideboard during the last two tournaments.

I will gladly play Chalice at zero on the play versus the blue decks you listed regardless of whether or not they have Mox(en) in their opener. Forcing them to play fair, limiting them to one mana per turn (with the exception of Sol Ring), and shutting off their future Moxen draws are definitely pay offs. While the deck is not running as many lock pieces as traditional Shop decks, I still believe it does enough to effectively slow down most blue decks.

If you're taking all the turns or infecting me, it doesn't matter what Shop deck I'm playing. I don't see the life gain from Batterskull as a win condition versus non-creature decks. I utilize the card as a way to offset the life loss the deck does to itself.