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Author Topic: My Take On Shops In The East Coast  (Read 14064 times)
Bibendum
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« on: August 01, 2013, 09:59:18 pm »

So I wanted to write a post and get feedback from the Shop players on TMD as to where they think Shops are as an archetype.  Most of this is going to come from the perspective of the East Coast meta since that is where I play.  I am going to look at decks outside of the East Coast meta and see how I would think they would fare here.  I will address which decks I believe to be viable, or not, based on my perspective of the East Coast meta.  I am well aware that the Bazaar of Moxen decks, or decks from the West Coast that I talk about, are not meant for our meta.  I will, however, discuss what changes I think could be made to the decks to adapt them for the East Coast.  

I think we need to look at the kinds of Shop lists there are, what they each excel at, and what the particular weakness of each archetype is.  I believe the best way to do this is go through the past few months and look at the style of Shop decks that have emerged, analyzing what each brings to the table.  I'll pull a sample or two for each archetype and discuss the list and my thoughts.  If I omit a particular style you are fond of, it is not an intentional jab.  Feel free to list it, as there have been a lot more decks that have sprung up lately and I'm sure I won't hit on everything.

So, let’s begin:  
  
MUD Prison  
  
Espresso  

The last Espresso list to put up results in a big setting belongs to Tom Dixon.  I believe Rob Edwards was on Espresso as well, but the top 16 was not all listed and Tom did a report for 12th.  

Let’s take a look at his 75 and see what we can gather:  
  
Tom Dixon  
Neo-Espresso:  
  
Non-Mana Artifacts: 34  

4 Smokestack  
4 Tangle Wire  
4 Chalice of the Void  
4 Lodestone Golem  
4 Sphere of Resistance  
3 Phyrexian Revoker  
3 Null Rod  
2 Phyrexian Metamorph  
2 Crucible of Worlds  
2 Thorn of Amethyst  
1 Duplicant  
1 Trinisphere  
  
Mana Artifacts: 7  
1 Sol Ring  
1 Black Lotus  
1 Mox Emerald  
1 Mox Jet  
1 Mox Pearl  
1 Mox Ruby  
1 Mox Sapphire  
  
Lands: 19  

4 Mishra's Workshop  
4 Mishra's Factory  
4 Wasteland  
4 Ancient Tomb  
1 Strip Mine  
1 Tolarian Academy  
1 City of Traitors  
  
Sideboard: 15  

4 Grafdigger's Cage  
3 Relic of Progenitus  
3 Ghost Quarter  
1 Crucible of Worlds  
1 Pithing Needle  
1 Duplicant  
2 Triskelion  
  
OK, so this list is brutal.  It punishes mana bases harder than most lists, as it has Null Rods in the main.  Karn, which was a staple in most Espresso lists of past, is gone for a lower curve and a much more compact approach.  Anyone who has dealt with a Chalice on one, Sphere effects and a Null Rod knows how difficult this list can be to fight through.  And that’s before it lands a game changer like Tangle Wire or Smokestack. In Toms Report ( seen here: http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=45426.0) he mentions that he cut a Metamorph/Revoker for two Thorns. Going back before the event when meta-gaming a lot of people expected Bomberman, Standstill, Burning Long/Oath and BuG Fish to be Shops primary concerns. In my opinion cutting the two cards for two Thorns in this field comes down to one thing, do you fear Burning Long/Oath more then you fear BuG Fish. Thorns are awful against BuG fish but are very strong in the Burning match-up. Outside of the loss Tom mentions to BuG fish it seems Tom accurately predicted what he would play against. Null Rods and extra Sphere effects are all amazing choices in a field full of Bomberman, Burning and Standstill. Not counting lists with Welders this is probably my personal favorite archetype of shops. Absolutely punishing, this lists strengths rely in the amazing synergy between all the cards. When this deck builds properly there are very few ways to deal with it. So what gives? Why isn't this list nearly as prevalent recently after its great showing at the NYSE. A few reasons come to mind:  
Null Rod is not as good as it was only a few weeks ago. The amount of fish decks in the East coast area has exponentially increased in recent times. In most cases null rod is a dead card against the Fish decks and Thorn is not an applicable fix to this situation since it is equally dead . Espresso is threat light, drawing dead for a few turns is murder and this list has no fix to that. Espresso can lock the board down stronger then most other lists but anyone who has ever played it has felt the pain of drawing multiple spheres and wires with no stack or golem. Slowing down the opponent to only get blown out by a few lands off the top as they build and land a bomb. This problem has gotten worse with decks adding more and more threats. Bolt and Path are now more common and if you can't get a smokestack online to hard lock your opponents out, every threat you have in a deck that does not run many, gets killed by bolt.  
  
What are the answers? We play chalice, everyone knows chalice 1 has become a crucial play in shops but what else can we do. In this particular instance I'd like to start exploring buried ruin and Expedition Map as possible answers. I am aware that Map is a 1 drop and chalice 1 is a strong play in our lists but Map is a great tool to find shops/strip/academy or whatever else you are looking for. It thins your deck and It allows you to run some sort of utility lands like Buried ruin or even tabernacle/maze out of the board, with an ability to consistently find them. Buried ruin is an undervalued card in my opinion. Recurring threats can be a huge way to combat grudge/ingot chewer. I think Ratchet Bomb is a card that has made its way in and out of shop lists and could be one of the stronger choices right now. With people playing more and more creatures at 1-2 CC bomb can be massive. I'm sure there are other options but these are probably the first 3 that come to mind.    
  
Martello  
  
Martlello was a deck that gave Shops a toolbox they hadn't seen since 5c's tricks of old. Martello uses Forgemaster to find individual answers or straight game winners based on board state. There were a lot of variants of Forgemaster decks, Last year around this time I had a streak of 4-5 top 8s on a list that had come out of Europe using Forgemaster and Metalworker but in most cases those lists have died down in popularity. In Europe they are still popular but over here the much more consistent Martello has won out. Martello has been on the decline in in the states in recent months but here is a list from April that top 8'd an event.  
  
Sam Savage  
4 Chalice of the Void  
4 Tangle Wire  
3 Sphere of Resistance  
4 Thorn of Amethyst  
3 Phyrexian Revoker  
3 Phyrexian Metamorph  
4 Lodestone Golem  
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster  
1 Sundering Titan  
1 Trinisphere  
1 Mana Crypt  
1 Sol Ring  
1 Steel Hellkite  
1 Duplicant  
1 Mox Pearl  
1 Mox Ruby  
1 Mox Sapphire  
1 Mox Emerald  
1 Mox Jet  
1 Black Lotus  
4 Wasteland  
4 Mishra’s Workshop  
4 Ancient Tomb  
1 Strip Mine  
1 Tolarian Academy  
1 City of Traitors  
4 Mishra’s Factory  
  
  
SB  
3 Grafdigger’s Cage  
2 Ensnaring Bridge  
2 Ratchet Bomb  
3 Crucible of Worlds  
2 Duplicant  
3 Tormod’s Crypt  
  
Looking at this list you see that Forgemaster provides you the outlets to find silver bullets to a lot of decks out there. The main targets were usually Hellkite, Sundering Titan and Duplicant. Cases can be made for almost every card in the deck depending on the situation. While the Toolbox situation is solid, why does a deck like this get pushed out of the meta game? Well first off, Null Rod/ Stony Silence are being played more and they are pretty devastating to this deck. Shutting off Forgemaster/Moxen turns this into a less explosive and consistent Espresso list which some vanilla 3/5's. Spot removal has also hurt this deck immensely. Eating 3 artifacts to have a Hellkite or Titan taken out by swords or chewer you can really set yourself back tempo wise. Also with this being the primary shop deck that ran things for a few months, I think it was hated out pretty hard by today's current meta. I'm not 100% sure to be honest what the fix to this would be. I think multiple blue decks running Welder main is also a bit of a nail in a coffin in a list that wants to abuse Forgemaster tricks. I don't really have a fix for this one and its one of the lists I would suggest staying away from.  
Also, there will be another Forgemaster list discussed in the Metalworker section, as it is very functionally different from Martello and needs to be noted as such.
  
Shop Agro  
  
Speed and raw power shop aggro's goal is to use wire's or spheres as virtual time walks as you do 20 points of damage as quickly as possible. The elements of Shop decks are there in most cases, Chalices, Wires, Sphere effects and Strip effects but instead of the power of Smokestack you are just looking to run right over the opponents. The three Agro lists I'd like to discuss are Terra-Nova, Batterskull Agro and Genesis Chamber. Ill touch on Terra-Nova first.  
  
Terra-Nova  
  
Will Magrann  
Quarterfinalist  
  
4 Lodestone Golem  
4 Phyrexian Metamorph  
4 Phyrexian Revoker  
  
4 Chalice of the Void  
4 Dismember  
4 Sphere of Resistance  
4 Thorn of Amethyst  
2 Sculpting Steel  
1 Trinisphere  
  
1 Mana Crypt  
1 Mox Emerald  
1 Mox Jet  
1 Mox Pearl  
1 Mox Ruby  
1 Mox Sapphire  
1 Sol Ring  
  
4 Ancient Tomb  
4 Mishra's Factory  
4 Mishra's Workshop  
4 Mutavault  
4 Wasteland  
1 Strip Mine  
1 Tolarian Academy  
  
SB:  
4 Grafdigger's Cage  
3 Null Rod  
3 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale  
3 Tormod's Crypt  
2 Ghost Quarter  
  
This list is meant to do one very simple thing. Abuse standstill and Bomberman. The decks design ( all credit heads towards the Forino's, I think, on this one) was simple but powerful. Sphere them out of the game while manlands abused them and Dismembers took care of any road blocks there might have been. In a meta game where very few creatures were this deck was an amazing game plan. With more and more Fish decks starting to pop up the less effective this deck is. 4 Dismembers is a good answer but when decks start packing more creatures your 2/2's and 3/3's start to trade less effectively especially when they are lands. Losing a body and Sinkholing yourself is rough. With the Meta where it is, one thing I would like to see in this deck would be Ratchet Bomb/ Porcelain Legionnaire. One reason I like these two cards is Legionnaire trades positively with almost every fish creature out there while still trading with Lodestones in the mirror. I feel it is very solid in an aggro shell and for 2 mana can be quite devastating when coupled with a sphere effect turn one. Ratchet bomb is a cheap efficient way to clear 1-2 blockers off the board allowing you to go lethal. A bomb at 1 can take care of  Hierarch's, Death Rite Shaman, Goblin Welders among others. While a bomb at two can be damaging to your game plan with so many Sphere effects, it can also again take care of a wall of creatures that might be sitting in front of you. Bob, Goyf, Thalia, Stoneforge, Snapcaster and the increasingly popular Baleful Strix. I think with a few slight modifications this deck can compete in todays meta just based on raw tempo alone.  
  
Batterskull Shops  
Well the first thing this shop list is missing is a catchy name. Rob Edwards I'm looking at you to fix that ASAP. Besides that this deck takes raw power another way. It maxed out the high end of the shop curve with 4x Batterskull and says Ancient Tomb and Dismember, your damage means nothing to me. This is deck isn't looking for cute tricks as much as its looking to ram 2 Batterskulls and a Lodestone Golem down your throat on turn 2 ( thanks Rob).  
  
Second – Rob Edwards  
“Deck list Withheld"  
  
4 Mishra’s Workshop  
4 Mishra’s Factory  
4 Ancient Tomb  
4 Wasteland  
1 Strip Mine  
1 Tolarian Academy  
1 Black Lotus  
1 Sol Ring  
1 Mana Crypt  
1 Mox Sapphire  
1 Mox Ruby  
1 Mox Pearl  
1 Mox Emerald  
1 Mox Jet  
1 Trinisphere  
1 Duplicant  
4 Lodestone Golem  
4 Chalice of the Void  
4 Tangle Wire  
4 Phyrexian Revoker  
4 Phyrexian Metamorph  
4 Dismember  
4 Sphere of Resistance  
4 Batterskull  
  
SB:  
4 Relic of Progenitus  
4 Grafdigger’s Cage  
3 Ghost Quarter  
3 Crucible of Worlds  
1 Duplicant  
  
Well the pro's of this deck are pretty straight forward. Abuse you as hard as possible as quick as possible. My lands tap for 3 and I am going to make you know that fact pretty clearly. One thing that came up in a match I played against Rob and I think is a huge boon right now, Batterskull dodges Lightning Bolt. With a lot of decks using that as the primary form of spot removal I think Batterskull is an amazing choice. Even though it has only been a few events this has been the shop list to show up the most recently. If I had to argue the cons of it, I feel most of it would fall on with such a top heavy curve and 0 crucibles meeting a ill-timed waste effect can ruin your day as bad if not worse then Espresso. 4 Metamorphs beefs up the consistency of the list but can sometimes lead to awkward openers with 2 Metamorphs and no real threats. If you are going to stay with an Agro list this is probably the best suited for the meta. If you can stop a few crucial pieces of removal Batterskull just beats the Fish decks out in the field right now.  
  
  
Genesis Chamber  
Ill say this off the bat, this might be the most fun shop list I have piloted in a while, your ability to do silly things is through the roof and Genesis Chamber compliments the brokenness so well. If I remember correctly this list went undefeated in rounds and lost in round one of top eight to the eventual winner of the largest event to be held in the states this year, the NYSE Open. In a field full of Bomberman and Standstill, card draw and free creatures seems pretty solid and this deck has both.  
  
TH – Adrian Becker  
Affinity Robots  
  
4 Mishra’s Workshop  
4 Ancient Tomb  
2 Gaea’s Cradle  
1 Tolarian Academy  
1 Wasteland  
1 Strip Mine  
1 Mox Opal  
1 Mox Sapphire  
1 Mox Jet  
1 Mox Ruby  
1 Mox Emerald  
1 Mox Pearl  
1 Mana Crypt  
1 Mana Vault  
1 Sol Ring  
4 Lodestone Golem  
4 Tangle Wire  
4 Genesis Chamber  
4 Skullclamp  
4 Memnite  
4 Signal Pest  
4 Phyrexian Revoker  
3 Frogmite  
2 Steel Overseer  
4 Arcbound Ravager  
1 Memory Jar  
  
SB:  
  
4 Grafdigger’s Cage  
3 Witchbane Orb  
2 Tormod’s Crypt  
2 Dismember  
2 Phyrexian Metamorph  
2 Thorn of Amethyst  
  
Looking at this list we see how this deck fires off. Eat a few dudes with Skullclamp to refill your hand and do busted things with a genesis chamber. Turn 3ing people is a very possible thing with a few Memnines, Signal Pests and a Genesis Chamber on board. The speed this deck functions at is unmatched in any of the Agro decks but what the deck sacrifices for speed is a bit of consistency and a very weak manabase. An early Null Rod/ Stony Silence can just stop this deck from firing off. 13 non artifact producing mana sources can also put you in a sticky situation vs Wasteland, while not nearly as bad as some other decks it can still hurt. Board wipes are becoming more and more common. Volcanic Fallout/Pyroclasm are Vintage cards these days and both of those cards give this deck a fit. Even despite all that, this deck does not have enough lock pieces to stop blue and isn't consistent enough to race Burning Oath, so even if you get to a field without Fish decks packing Stony Silence or Rod you are still not well poised against the current meta. I think this was a very unique take on shops and while it stormed a few events in a row it is an inconsistent list and probably not a contender for days to come. I hope I'm wrong on that one, I can't state enough how fun this deck is to play.  
  
Metalworker  
Metalworker is a power house. The card itself opens you up to some of the most busted plays possible in shops. One or Two activations  should outright win you a game in most cases. While I said I was going to stick to the East Coast Meta, I feel I can not write this without touching on the B.O.M Metalworker list and then some of the more straight forward lists designed to just power out big dudes. The B.O.M list never really took off in the states, it had some showings but for whatever reason like a lot of other lists out of Europe it didn't click here. So here is the first Metalworker list:  
  
  
Antonio Musarra  
2nd B.O.M. 2013  
  
1 Black Lotus  
4 Chalice of the Void  
2 Crucible of Worlds  
2 Expedition Map  
2 Karn Liberated  
2 Karn, Silver Golem  
4 Lodestone Golem  
1 Mana Crypt  
1 Mana Vault  
4 Metalworker  
1 Mox Emerald  
1 Mox Jet  
1 Mox Pearl  
1 Mox Ruby  
1 Mox Sapphire  
4 Phyrexian Revoker  
1 Sol Ring  
4 Sphere of Resistance  
3 Staff of Nin  
1 Trinisphere  
3 Phyrexian Metamorph  
  
  
Lands (16):  
4 Ancient Tomb  
2 City of Traitors  
4 Mishra's Workshop  
1 Strip Mine  
1 Tolarian Academy  
4 Wasteland  
  
Sideboard  
3 Batterskull  
1 Crucible of Worlds  
4 Grafdigger's Cage  
2 Jester's Cap  
2 Pithing Needle  
3 Tormod's Crypt  
  
Looking at this list we see a few things that are very uncommon for shops. Karn Liberated and Staff of Nin are the two that jump out right away. Karn Liberated is generally not a card shops play because of its inability to be cast off a workshop. With Metalworker and 6 lands that produce 2 colorless mana it becomes a legitimate threat in this deck. 2 artifacts in hand with a tomb and a moxen in play is not a very difficult board state to achieve at all and Karn's impact is unreal. His + ability negates card advantage and his -3 deals with tons of problematic cards for shops, Jayce being the biggest threat that It instantly handles. Staff of Nins ability to kill Welders, Revokers, Confidants, Strix, and a host of other problematic X/1's is amazing. Then adding in card advantage makes Staff at 6 being something worth casting. With all these positives what is the problem? Why isn't Karn or Staff a mainstay in the US? Karn crutches on hitting a Metalworker which means if there is no Worker present in the opener or he dies before activating you are stuck sitting on Karn. Dead cards in hand while playing a deck that has 0 library manipulation is a killer.  Drains are continuing to be more and more prevalent in the east coast by the day so playing a deck with a lot less lock pieces falls into the trap of an all in turn on Karn that you cant tie up enough of the opponents resources to stop it from getting Drained. Thus not only do you give them 7 mana but you have  less lock pieces to hinder the brokenness that the free mana will cause and have basically time walked them. Drains are a card that we need to play around as Shop pilots but there will be times where threats have to be forced through an that is a huge blowout. Staffs ability to remove X/1's is not very strong against Bomberman, Landstill, Dredge and Burning Long. That will most likely make up about 50% of a field at any given event. I don't think this deck can fight through a field of Blue control decks consistently enough even if it has a positive matchup against some of the Fish decks traditional shop decks are weaker against. If I were to play this I would probably cut the two Karn Liberated and 1 Staff, to fit 3 Steel Hellkite into the main. Hellkite is a beating on its own, has evasion and can be powered out via Metalworker as well. If the Grixis control deck continues to rise in popularity Staff's value could continue to rise.
 
Next up we have another Metalworker deck that came in third at B.O.M. This list happens to run Forgemaster as well as Metalworker but with nothing like Blightsteel or Sundering Titan and a lot more castable threats, this lists engine seemed to be much more in the domain of Metalworker then it did a traditional Forgemaster list. This deck brings the explosive power of metalworker with the consistency of Forgemasters toolbox. It can power out all its broken plays with a worker while Digging for responses with Forgemaster. It can be very flexible in its approach thus it can be a lot less linear then most shop decks.  
 
B.O.M 3rd Place  
Alexis Catelain
 
Maindeck (61 cards):
1 Black Lotus
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Duplicant
1 Karn, Silver Golem
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
4 Lodestone Golem
1 Mana Crypt
4 Metalworker
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Sol Ring
4 Sphere of Resistance
1 Steel Hellkite
4 Tangle Wire
3 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Triskelion
1 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
 
Lands (17):
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Mishra's Workshop
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Wasteland
Sideboard (15):
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Duplicant
4 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Triskelion
1 Wurmcoil Engine
 
This is a list I have not played myself but attacking it from the standpoint of the East Coast meta  I think this falls under the same issues I named earlier. Null Rod/Stony Silence kill this deck, the emergence of Goblin Welder makes your life much harder even with Revokers. I mentioned this before but in fields full of spot removal Metalworker feels worse and worse. If I were to adapt this I would cut 3 Thorns and 1 Karn for 1 Steel HellKite and 2 Ratchet Bombs, bringing the list down to 60 cards. It won't help the Null Rod/ Stony Silence situation but it will help dealing with Welders/Baleful Strix/Deathrite Shaman and some of the more problematic low curve creatures out there. I still think Forgemaster is more of a liability then a threat in these current days but will make a comeback when the meta starts to shift away from blue decks grinding out games and back to blue decks trying to do degenerate things.
 
Goblin Welder  
So I am biased, I will admit it now. Goblin Welder is my favorite card ever printed hands down. Welder offers shops the ability to recur threats, re-use Tangle Wires and do tons of other tricks to generate virtual card advantage. Welder pretty much does everything a shop deck is missing and has some of the best synergy with cards that fit very well into a Workshop shell, Bazaar and Welder have amazing synergy together and offer you filtering while filling your yard to offer up welder tricks. Expedition Map is great with Welder as it offers constant deck thinning and the ability to hit Bazaar constantly. The two predominant lists Welder will be a part of while talking about Shops are 5c and Mono red. The first list I will touch on is 5c or 5 Color Stax.  
 
5 Color  
5c generally plays a lot of silver bullets and hopes to grind out games by abusing Goblin Welders recursion of Tangle Wires and other lock pieces while having the ability to search up threats whenever the opportunity presents itself. The colored shell centers around Black for tutors, Blue for Tinker and Recall, Red for Welders plus artifact removal post board, White makes an appearance for Balance in most cases and Green shows up as well. Green used to be for Fastbond and Ancient Grudge recursion but ever since Mirrodin 2.0 5c got a printing that was deceptively strong. Sylvok Replica. This card is amazing in the right meta game and its synergy with Welder is undeniable. 5c shows up very rarely but it has shown up but has put up good showings most of the time it is played.
 
 
 
Finalist – Joe Brown
4 Goblin Welder
1 Duplicant
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Sylvok Replica
1 Sundering Titan
1 Triskelion
 
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Tangle Wire
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Smokestack
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Balance
1 Crop Rotation
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Tinker
1 Trinisphere
1 Vampiric Tutor
 
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Opal
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
 
4 City of Brass
4 Mishra’s Workshop
4 Wasteland
3 Gemstone Mine
1 Bazaar of Baghdad
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
 
SB:
 
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Sylvok Replica
2 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Duplicant
1 Pithing Needle
1 The Tabernacle of Pendrell Vale
1 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Triskelion
 
This list exemplifies all the strengths of 5c. Everything mentioned above and more, Chains is a great card that can't fit into most shells. Being able to run multiple 1 of's and find them as a shop player is a rarity but the tutors let you reliably see them. The biggest issue with 5c is the deck has a very hard time beating a diverse meta game. When the field is open like it is right now, you do not have enough slots for answers and end up falling into a trap where you aren't as consistent as other shop decks and you don't have the ability to reactively answer all of your opponents threats. Spot removal is huge in this format and you don't have the ability to protect Welder like blue decks do and this deck crutches on Welder immensely. Before Revoker was printed 5c's game against MUD was through the roof. While 5c still has an advantage over MUD I don't think it is the domination it used too be. With tools like Revoker and Dismember Goblin Welder can't even be protected vs non-blue decks as well. The inability to play Chalice of the Void is also a negative to 5c.  If I were to make a few alterations to fit in the meta I see today Firespout would make its way into the 60 as i think board wipes are immensely strong right now. While this seems counter productive to your Welder plans if you know you have the board wipe you are able to play around it properly. Baleful Strix is a card that 5c could run, the deck has always had a hard time playing a card with multiple colors in the cost but Strix's synergy with Welder is phenomenal as some of the blue decks have shown recently and frankly why should they have all the fun? If I were to try and make some space I think I would cut 1 Crucible, the Metamorph and the Mana Vault for a Strix, a Firespout and a Fastbond. I would cut the extra Trike for a Darkblast in the board. Seal of Primordium is a possibility to replace one Replica since it wouldn't die to any of the board wipes and its cost is much more suited to be cast without a Workshop in play.  
 
Mono-Red
Mono Red shops while the utility of 5c is not as strong here, you gain an immense amount of consistency. You can play a more prison oriented build that can use welder for amazing tricks but does not have to crutch on the card the same way 5c does. One thing you will see in Mono-Red and no where else is Uba Mask. Uba Mask is a card that has not seen play in years and recently I played a Mono-Red list on it but BC or Blaine had a list come together that I will discuss that I think abuses the synergy of Welder, Bazaar and Uba mask to its fullest potential. For anyone unfamiliar with Uba mask's interactions with the two previously mentioned cards its simple. With multiple Welders and a mask in play, with an artifact in the yard, you are able to Prevent your opponent from casting a non instant spell for the rest of the game by welding Uba Mask out during your opponents draw phase, the card that was set aside by Uba Mask is permanently removed from the game. So if this card is anything but something that can be played at instant speed, it is RFG'd for the remainder of the game. This can also be achieved with a single Welder and an Uba mask in play with another Uba Mask in the yard. Bazaar's interaction with Welder is easy, Dump cards in your yard and then you can cheat them in and out of play with Welder. Uba Mask and Bazaar are an interesting mix as well. When you have no cards in your hand You can activate bazaar to remove 2 cards from the game with Uba mask and not have to pitch anything. While that seems like anti-synergy with Welder you can draw 3 cards a turn while locking your opponents draws down. While it was a small event, Blaine still split the finals and I really like this lists overall feel.
 
 
1st/2nd Blaine Christiansen
 
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
3 Barbarian Ring
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
4 Goblin Welder
4 Lodestone Golem
2 Duplicant
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Null Rod
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Smokestack
4 Tangle Wire
2 Uba Mask
1 Trinisphere
 
Sideboard
3 Triskelion
2 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Grafdiger's Cage
1 Null Rod
3 Sphere of Resistance
 
So Welder and Chalice of the Void never played well together but with the printing of Cavern of Souls, the two cards that used to fight for inclusion in most of these decks have finally found a home together. With everything positive about this deck there are a few things that I would change around. I don't like 4x Bazaar. While the synergy of Bazaar in this deck stronger then in most lists any time I open double Bazaar I feel like I would want to ship the hand back outside of a few extreme cases. I never got a chance to ask BC and maybe if he checks this out he could answer this, 3 Barbarian Rings with no other way to activate them besides a Mox and a Lotus which both get shut off by null rod seems very hard to activate consistently and I would like to know how often he had the red mana online to do that. If I were to play a Welder deck right now a variation of this would be it 100%. Chalice is the best protection you can offer your own Welders and still has all its normal applications elsewhere. I would try to figure out a way to add in another red source so Barbarian Ring could be active more often and probably switch the Spheres to the main for the Null Rods. I think this list Is a lot of fun to play and it has a ton of hidden synergies while still being able to play the typical abusive shop game.  
 
 
So where does this leave us as shop players? I think a lot of questions were posed without a lot of answers. I don't think shops have been this wide open in years. If I were to pick a style of shops I would say Espresso with Ratchet Bomb is the way to go. I think almost every shop list presented can be tweaked to be competitive but to take down an event with the way Blue has evolved in the past few months, that is something that I and most other shop pilots have not been able to crack since Tom Dixon took down a MVP event a few months ago and even that was before the shift to Strix Control and BuG fish becoming more prevalent. If anything I hope this will force innovation back into the Workshop archetype. Outside of a few threads the shop forum is slowly decreasing in activity. Hopefully even if you are a shop master who knew everything that I wrote at reading this will bring some traffic back to our little corner of the forum and pump some life back into the Workshop discussions.
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« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2013, 10:57:14 pm »

Tom finished eleventh at the NYSE Open. I finished in twelfth on Martello.

I'm sorry you don't like the name "Decklist Withheld." Shawn prefers to call it "Skull MUD." I also like "Ones and Fours," but the sideboard isn't entirely one-ofs or four-ofs, so it's a misnomer.

Adrian, the Affinity player, did indeed lose in three games to Mastriano in the top eight at the NYSE Open.
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« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2013, 11:09:47 pm »

For some reason I thought you were on Espresso, while I still think Martello isn't the best call, coming in 12th in the biggest event in the year is far from dead

Cheers

-JP

PS- I think there has to be a solid pun out there with Batterskull somewhere Rob!
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« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2013, 12:13:20 pm »

Great read.  Insightful and informed. 
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« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2013, 01:08:05 pm »

Very nice summary.  To respond to you comments about the Mono-R list, I would definitely play this deck again with a couple small changes.  Specifically, I would sub basic Mountains for B-Rings, and Metamorphs for Duplicants.  I never used a B-Ring for anything except a non-basic Mountain that pings, and Duplicants are just too much mana and not as versatile as Metamorphs. 

Re: Bazaar of Baghdad
Personally, I never plan to play fewer than 4 Bazaars, although I'm not going to yell at anyone who chooses to do so.  Their synergy with Welder and Uba Mask is just too powerful, and even if you don't have either of those cards, it is the best way for Shops to filter dead cards into business.

At the Eudemonia tournament last weekend I was overwhelmed by the shear number of Dark Confidants, Young Pyromancers, Snapcaster Mages, and Deathrite Shamans.  I am contemplating yet another return of the Triskelion, or even Staff of Nin.  Mono-R Shops doesn't run many Sphere effects, so keeping the opponent from playing anything is not a reliable strategy.  It is important to have a way to deal with their annoying little dudes.

Finally, let me pose a question to the Shoppers out there: if Lodestone Golem were to get restricted (not starting a debate about whether or not this will/should happen), what will Shop decks look like afterwards?
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« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2013, 01:30:14 pm »

Triskelion could be a good call, unfortunally Deathrite has 2 thoughness, but Trisk can hit Jace, Bobs, Snaps, Pyromancers, and Jace. When Golem would become restricted, I could imagins a revival of Arcbound Ravager along with Trisks.

P.S.: Good read and nice choice of the most characteristic Lists.
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« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2013, 01:32:05 pm »

This was a very enjoyable read.  I think it highlights very well the state of transition that workshops is in.  You mention 5c shops has difficulty dealing with a varied meta, I'd go farther to say that any version of shops has diffiuclty dealing with a varied meta.  It seems to me as a symptom of not having the option of running a draw engine.  

On top of this here on the east coast Martello had been such a main stay as the best workshop deck for such a long time, and now its waned significantly in power due to the shifts of the meta.  There isn't really a workshops deck there to take over.  I do expect for a new amazing shop build to be revealed at worlds in a few months.

At the Eudemonia tournament last weekend I was overwhelmed by the shear number of Dark Confidants, Young Pyromancers, Snapcaster Mages, and Deathrite Shamans.  I am contemplating yet another return of the Triskelion, or even Staff of Nin.  Mono-R Shops doesn't run many Sphere effects, so keeping the opponent from playing anything is not a reliable strategy.  It is important to have a way to deal with their annoying little dudes.

In that metagame I'd think that a version with a strong mana denial strategy would have the best chance.  The young pyromancer decks specifically are very land light.

Finally, let me pose a question to the Shoppers out there: if Lodestone Golem were to get restricted (not starting a debate about whether or not this will/should happen), what will Shop decks look like afterwards?

The same minus 3 lodestone golems?  I'm not sure why they would change singificantly.
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« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2013, 02:19:28 pm »

Espresso is impacted the least by the loss of Golem, so I'd imagine it would surge forward for a bit.
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« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2013, 02:25:21 pm »

I have been testing with staff and trike. Trike is good but only taking care of one dude then getting bolted is rough. Staff cant be hatee by bolt or path and forcing them to grudge a staff isnt the worst thing. BC thank you for the clarification. I felt that barb ring in most cases was exactly what you said. A mountain that does 1 to you. I really thunk ratchet bomb is under represented right now. 5C with a few board sweeps could offer spme versatility shops has not had in a long time.



Edit: posting on my phone sorry for the lack of proper grammer.
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« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2013, 04:35:37 pm »

This was a very enjoyable read.  I think it highlights very well the state of transition that workshops is in.  You mention 5c shops has difficulty dealing with a varied meta, I'd go farther to say that any version of shops has diffiuclty dealing with a varied meta.  It seems to me as a symptom of not having the option of running a draw engine.  

I agree to some extent, but Espresso has game against a lot of decks as did Martello, though Martello has less game in the current field. 5c suffers more because you can't toolbox enough answers to the entire field. I think Firespout and Darkblast would be amazing against half this field. The problem is those are awfully dead cards against the other half. Espresso at least still has mostly 60 functional cards against every deck just some better then others. Either way I think you are correct about the lack of draw engine and maybe a combination of Staff and Trike on top of a harder mana denial package becomes the answer.
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« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2013, 04:07:48 pm »

When you say Esspresso, do you think Workshop Decks running Smokestack will get trouble through the Pyromancer Decks that are about to come? I have recently count about at least 5 Pyromancer Decks in only something about 2 weeks. I guess in aggro Lists that Steel Hellkite could answer them, and maybe its time to grab out Ratchet Bomb again.
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« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2013, 04:23:11 pm »

Yes, Espresso is the prison builds, I think currently Pyromancer hurts but Ratchet Bomb is a great way to combat it. Hellkite is good as well but a CMC of 6 isn't going to be the most reliable way of killing free dudes. The good thing is, if you are playing Prison, you traditionally have a good matchup against Grow decks due to the amount of spheres in your deck and the light land count in their deck. This being said if you allow the incremental advantage to pile up from Pyromancer you are going to have a bad time.
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« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2013, 02:47:27 am »

For the Espresso lists, how about Tabernacle in the sideboard to combat the Young Pyromancer decks? Also is reusable vs the dredge decks?
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« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2013, 08:10:57 am »

I don't think tabernacle is a bad card by any means, I just prefer ratchet bomb vs Pyro because of the versatility. Tabernacle is a fine call in the board, even more so now that there are a lot of creature decks running around right now.
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« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2013, 08:42:42 pm »

"If I were to pick a style of shops I would say Espresso with Ratchet Bomb is the way to go." two top 8's in the last two events you played in. I think you called it like a boss! *_*
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« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2013, 07:44:10 am »

"If I were to pick a style of shops I would say Espresso with Ratchet Bomb is the way to go." two top 8's in the last two events you played in. I think you Nick called it like a boss! *_*

Fixed that for you.
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« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2013, 08:05:00 am »

I played in a 20 player tournament at The Player's Guild on Saturday going 4-0-1 in the Swiss, and making it to the Finals, here is the list I was playing:

4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
1 City of Traitors
Tolarian Academy
Strip Mine
8 Lotus, Moxen, Crypt, Sol
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Batterskull
3 Sphere of Resistance
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Tangle Wire
4 Chalice of the Void
Trinisphere

Sideboard:
4 Grafdigger's Cage
4 Ratchet Bomb
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Crucible of Worlds
1 Ghost Quarter

The original list was supposed to have 4 Batterskull and 0 Sphere of Resistance, but due to a lack of Batterskull, and a lack of patience to write out 3 Batterskull Proxies, so I threw in 3 Spheres. The reason I wanted 4 Wurmcoil and 4 Batterskull was because I expected a lot of creature based decks. Here is a mini report of my day:

Round 1: Brandon Brown with UW RIP Helm Combo (won die roll)

These games went extremely fast. I didn't even know what he was on until much later in the tournament. All I saw from him was: Force of Will, Mental Misstep, Island, Plains, Tundra, some fetches and an Aven Mindcensor.

Games: 2-0
Round Total: 1-0

Round 2: Dan Bernquist with Grixis Painter (lost die roll)

Game 1 took all but 16 minutes of the round. He mulliganed to 6. I exhausted 4 or 5 Tangle Wires, had about 3 or 4 sphere effects in play, none of which were Golem, and took 15 damage from my own Mana Crypt. He eventually is able to cast Agent of Bolas to beat me to death. Next top deck for me would have been a Wurmcoil. Also during this game he played a Trinket Mage and searched for a Painter's Servant, seems like a strong Trinket Mage! I pointed that out and Painter then became a Sapphire.

Game 2 went extremely fast as I had Triple Lodestone by turn 2.

Game 3 was going well for me until he Hurkyl'sd me right as time was called. I tried to just prevent him from winning to take the draw.

Games: 3-1-1
Round Total: 1-0-1

Round 3: Steven Thompson with Elves! (won die roll)

These games were very easy for me, the match took like 10ish minutes. Chalice @1 and Spheres do wonders, as does Wurmcoil Engine and Ratchet Bomb.

Games: 5-1-1
Round Total: 2-0-1

After our match, Steven was looking for someone to play Commander with, eventually I played him with this deck. Let's just say I scooped shortly after...

Round 4: Phil Cassidy with Martello (lost die roll)

Game 1 he is ahead of me the entire game, until I drop a Wurmcoil. Then I Metamorph a Wurmcoil. Then I play a third Wurmcoil. That's what I call stabilizing!

Game 2 he plays Factory Chalice @0 pass. I play Ratchet Bomb, pop at 0, then play Mox and Tormod's. He then plays an irrelevant Crucible. I play my own Crucible then Waste his land. He never gets into the game.

Games: 7-1-1
Round Total: 3-0-1

Now I know I can make it in the Top 8 no matter what I do so I play my next opponent:

Round 5: Bill Sees with Boberman (Esper Bomberman) (lost die roll)

Game 1, he mulliganed to 6, all I remember was that a Wurmcoil hit him and he scooped, must have went all the way.

Game 2 he beat me down with a Trinket Mage while I kept taking damage from Mana Crypt.

Game 3 he mulliganed to 6, the game was awkward. I was beating with Factory, I eventually animated and Metamorphed it, then eventually played another Factory. He later Hurkyl'sd me thinking I had 3 Factories. I then play Wire Metamorph Wire while he was tapped out to seal the deal.

Games: 9-2-1
Round Total: 4-0-1

This put me in the first seed, but Shawn doesn't like the Top seed rule so we had to use the old fashioned die roll, darn.
My Top 8 opponent was.... Steven again! I was happy to know my match would be easy, or so I thought.
I lose the die roll...

Game 1 I mulligan to 6, the first time all tournament, and keep a hand that was very similar to the first, except it allowed for a turn 2 Wurmcoil. He goes Fetch, Birchlore go. I go double Thorn go. He plays a bunch of guys and tries  to play a Lotus for free but I point out the Thorns, so he pays 2. I play Wurmcoil. He then has enough mana to cast Natural Order to get Craterhoof and hit me for exact damage through my Wurmcoil. Damn! I was scared.

Game 2 he scoops to triple Lodestone.

Game 3 was very grindy. He Natural Order's for Craterhoof early just to get damage in. I eventually drop Batterskull. We are at a standstill for awhile. During this he Natural Order's for a Viridian Shaman to blow up a Lodestone. I eventually get another one out, he casts his third and final Natural Order declares it to be a Viridian Shaman searches, no Viridian Shaman. Here he sided in the wrong pile, and so puts a Priest of Titania into play. I equip Batterskull to Lodestone and just go to town.

I was actually a lot more afraid of this match than I originally was.

Games: 11-3-1

Top 4: Keith Seals with Grixis Control (won die roll)

Game 1 Revoker names Jace, gets in there for awhile and then I think a Golem sees play.

Game 2 I get desperate and go from 14 to 8 to Metamorph a Bob. Didn't end well as then he plays Tezzeret and Jace. Guess who gets to take all the turns? He does!

Game 3 was incredibly fast. Turn 1 Lodestone Chalice @0. Turn 2 Metamorph for Lodestone beats face.

I'm excited to be in the Finals, until I see who my opponent is...
Games: 13-4-1

FINALS: Rob Edwards with Keeper

Damn it! I knew he was on Keeper, this deck is the bane of me.

Game 1 I mulligan to 6, I play Chalice @0 and Sphere. He plays Mountain pass. I play something I can't remember, all I know is he assembles Goblin Welder and Gorilla Shaman very early! He gets Jace out, Ultimates him, and I lose to my Mana Crypt on upkeep.

Game 2 he gets Trygon Predator into play. I play Wurmcoil, he Jace bounces multiple times, while blowing up stuff with Predator. I try to Metamorph the Predator but he counters it. He Hurkyl'sd me I try to get there but he then gets to take all the turns.

Games: 13-6-1

All in all I think the deck performed well. I wouldn't make any changes to it. I got $100 credit for placing 2nd, and got a bunch of Commander stuff.

Thank you to all my opponents for giving me a fun day of slinging cardboard. Thank you Shawn for allowing me to play in such a fun tournament, and thank you to Justin Kohler for allowing me to borrow this deck!

Hope you enjoy this tournament report.

« Last Edit: August 26, 2013, 03:21:40 pm by msg67183 » Logged

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« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2013, 09:20:03 am »

Here is a mini report of my day:.............

Sweet report! Your deck looks like a beast with quad lazer Wurmcoil Engine in the main.

Now that you've had time to think about it, would you've rather ran the extra Batterskulls or kept the Sphere or Resistance in the main? I only ask because in your report I read a lot of CotV + Sphere's + Wurmcoil sealing the deal. That makes me wonder if CotV + BatterSkull + Wurmcoil would be fast enough without the disruption of SoR?


EDIT: I think it's pretty cool observing how Workshop decks are built, meta-gamed, and piloted throughout the different Vintage regions of the world. Just like in Demars's latest article, three different shop decks from three different regions.
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« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2013, 05:53:07 pm »

Here is a mini report of my day:.............

Sweet report! Your deck looks like a beast with quad lazer Wurmcoil Engine in the main.

Now that you've had time to think about it, would you've rather ran the extra Batterskulls or kept the Sphere or Resistance in the main? I only ask because in your report I read a lot of CotV + Sphere's + Wurmcoil sealing the deal. That makes me wonder if CotV + BatterSkull + Wurmcoil would be fast enough without the disruption of SoR?

EDIT: I think it's pretty cool observing how Workshop decks are built, meta-gamed, and piloted throughout the different Vintage regions of the world. Just like in Demars's latest article, three different shop decks from three different regions.

If I ever play Workshops again, I'd play this exact list, it had all the Prison power I needed, as well as the pure aggro power to push wins through.
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« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2013, 07:35:10 am »

"If I were to pick a style of shops I would say Espresso with Ratchet Bomb is the way to go." two top 8's in the last two events you played in. I think you Nick called it like a boss! *_*

Fixed that for you.

Yea I called Nick and asked his thoughts on bomb. I had been looking at it but he convinced me to pull the trigger on that and the arrows was all him. But we all know that Nick Quigglebert Detwilers final list was more tuned then my own showed by the second place finish and whooping my ass in top 4 Wink
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« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2013, 06:32:36 am »

@Twaun007:

What are your thoughts on my Wurmcoil Beats list? Would you make any changes? Would you just cut the Batterskull for a 4th Sphere? Cut the Spheres for Batterskulls? Play another card altogether? My list is pretty much 56 cards with those last 4 cards being debated. I'm also really digging that sideboard.
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« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2013, 12:07:32 am »

@Twaun007:

What are your thoughts on my Wurmcoil Beats list? Would you make any changes? Would you just cut the Batterskull for a 4th Sphere? Cut the Spheres for Batterskulls? Play another card altogether? My list is pretty much 56 cards with those last 4 cards being debated. I'm also really digging that sideboard.

I come from a prison style school of workshops and I must say, Wurmcoil Engine is my least favorite creature to see across the board. It stops Lodestone Golem, Goyf, any other creature on the ground, it's great against Dismember/removal, and its a solid clock. I definitely would run as many as I could in a dedicated Workshop Aggro list. I can also say that Jordi dominated my Terranova list during the day two Gencon tourney with Wurmcoils and Batterskulls. It genuinely made me go back into the tank to rethink how I'd like to combat Workshops from a prison style perspective.

As for the Sphere vs Batterskull question, I don't have enough sample games under my belt to come to conclude which one is better. I honestly don't know if it's worth to try and out aggro a combo(or other blue) opponent by swinging at their dome or trying to halt their game plan by dropping Spheres.

I've also not been in favor of running Tangle Wire or Metamorph right now. Wire doesn't really impede Young Pyromancer Gush decks(also can hinder your ability to blast out creatures) and there isn't really anything I find worthy of coping with Metamorph. No one is running Trygon Predator and if someone Tinkers up Boresteel Colossus you can usually out race them with the Wurmcoil Engine/skullclamp lists or Tinker your own up if you're playing Kuldotha.  

Plus, Batterskull and Wurmcoil Engine are in straight beast mode right now since vintage is filled with more creatures than ever.

 
« Last Edit: October 04, 2013, 12:15:00 am by Twaun007 » Logged

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« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2013, 12:41:51 am »

@Twaun007:

What are your thoughts on my Wurmcoil Beats list? Would you make any changes? Would you just cut the Batterskull for a 4th Sphere? Cut the Spheres for Batterskulls? Play another card altogether? My list is pretty much 56 cards with those last 4 cards being debated. I'm also really digging that sideboard.

I come from a prison style school of workshops and I must say, Wurmcoil Engine is my least favorite creature to see across the board. It stops Lodestone Golem, Goyf, any other creature on the ground, it's great against Dismember/removal, and its a solid clock. I definitely would run as many as I could in a dedicated Workshop Aggro list. I can also say that Jordi dominated my Terranova list during the day two Gencon tourney with Wurmcoils and Batterskulls. It genuinely made me go back into the tank to rethink how I'd like to combat Workshops from a prison style perspective.

As for the Sphere vs Batterskull question, I don't have enough sample games under my belt to come to conclude which one is better. I honestly don't know if it's worth to try and out aggro a combo(or other blue) opponent by swinging at their dome or trying to halt their game plan by dropping Spheres.

I've also not been in favor of running Tangle Wire or Metamorph right now. Wire doesn't really impede Young Pyromancer Gush decks(also can hinder your ability to blast out creatures) and there isn't really anything I find worthy of coping with Metamorph. No one is running Trygon Predator and if someone Tinkers up Boresteel Colossus you can usually out race them with the Wurmcoil Engine/skullclamp lists or Tinker your own up if you're playing Kuldotha.  

Plus, Batterskull and Wurmcoil Engine are in straight beast mode right now since vintage is filled with more creatures than ever.

 

Removing Sphere makes the Shop and Creature matchups better. I also remember that during this tourney there were times I stalled and eventually just lost, more gas is always a good thing. I'm not sure of Tangle Wire yet, but it has been a very good card for my style of play.
You say Wurmcoil Engine is your least favorite card, it is My Absolute Favorite card ever!
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« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2013, 12:52:11 am »

You say Wurmcoil Engine is your least favorite card, it is My Absolute Favorite card ever!

No no no no... Wurmcoil is a beast! I was saying I didn't like seeing it from my opponents when I'm playing Workshops. It's literally a riptide crippler if you have no way to deal with it in the matchup. Tack on a Batterskull and you immediately become 400 yards behind the 8 ball(if you're sitting across from it).

I'm all for the Wurmcoil Engine.
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« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2013, 05:43:14 am »

You say Wurmcoil Engine is your least favorite card, it is My Absolute Favorite card ever!

No no no no... Wurmcoil is a beast! I was saying I didn't like seeing it from my opponents when I'm playing Workshops. It's literally a riptide crippler if you have no way to deal with it in the matchup. Tack on a Batterskull and you immediately become 400 yards behind the 8 ball(if you're sitting across from it).

I'm all for the Wurmcoil Engine.

Ah, my mistake...

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« Reply #25 on: October 05, 2013, 09:00:45 am »

I was asked if taking out Tangle Wire and replacing it for Steel Hellkite would ever be considered. I told the person I could see it if Spheres were cut for Batterskulls to add more gas to the deck, what are your thoughts Twaun?
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« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2013, 02:35:12 pm »

I played this list at our last vintage which was a month ago:
Creature (7)

    4 Lodestone Golem
    3 Phyrexian Revoker

Lands (19)

    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Mishra's Factory
    4 Mishra's Workshop
    1 Rishadan Port
    1 Strip Mine
    4 Wasteland
    1 Tolarian Academy
Spells (34)

    1 Black Lotus
    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Crucible Of Worlds
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Sapphire
    4 Smokestack
    1 Sol Ring
    4 Sphere of Resistance
    4 Tangle Wire
    2 Thorn of Amethyst
    1 Trinisphere
    2 Null Rod
    2 Pithing Needle

Sideboard
    4 Grafdigger's Cage
    2 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
    3 Tormod's Crypt
    3 Duplicant
    3 Maze of Ith

I think if I was to play today I'd:
-2 Pithing Needle
+2 Thorn of Amethyst

and maybe:
-4 Mishra's Factory
+4 Ghost Quarter

My meta is unlimited proxy so lots of shops and lots of young pyro decks.
 
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« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2013, 02:43:14 pm »

I played this list at our last vintage which was a month ago:
Creature (7)

    4 Lodestone Golem
    3 Phyrexian Revoker

Lands (19)

    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Mishra's Factory
    4 Mishra's Workshop
    1 Rishadan Port
    1 Strip Mine
    4 Wasteland
    1 Tolarian Academy
Spells (34)

    1 Black Lotus
    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Crucible Of Worlds
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Sapphire
    4 Smokestack
    1 Sol Ring
    4 Sphere of Resistance
    4 Tangle Wire
    2 Thorn of Amethyst
    1 Trinisphere
    2 Null Rod
    2 Pithing Needle

Sideboard
    4 Grafdigger's Cage
    2 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
    3 Tormod's Crypt
    3 Duplicant
    3 Maze of Ith

I think if I was to play today I'd:
-2 Pithing Needle
+2 Thorn of Amethyst

and maybe:
-4 Mishra's Factory
+4 Ghost Quarter

My meta is unlimited proxy so lots of shops and lots of young pyro decks.
 

If the meta is a lot of Shops and Pyromancer decks, I wouldn't play your list. I've found that the best card in both of those situations is Wurmcoil Engine.
I'd suggest going with the list I have posted with the report above except:
-3 Sphere of Resistance
-4 Tangle Wire
+3 Batterskull
+4 Steel Hellkite

This SUPER AGGRO shops deck really preys on Workshops and creatures, plus you have the resistors you need against the Pyromancers (Thorn, Lodestone, Trini). Just a suggestion, Good Luck with your Workshops!
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« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2013, 03:15:07 pm »

I played this list at our last vintage which was a month ago:
Creature (7)

    4 Lodestone Golem
    3 Phyrexian Revoker

Lands (19)

    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Mishra's Factory
    4 Mishra's Workshop
    1 Rishadan Port
    1 Strip Mine
    4 Wasteland
    1 Tolarian Academy
Spells (34)

    1 Black Lotus
    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Crucible Of Worlds
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Sapphire
    4 Smokestack
    1 Sol Ring
    4 Sphere of Resistance
    4 Tangle Wire
    2 Thorn of Amethyst
    1 Trinisphere
    2 Null Rod
    2 Pithing Needle

Sideboard
    4 Grafdigger's Cage
    2 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
    3 Tormod's Crypt
    3 Duplicant
    3 Maze of Ith

I think if I was to play today I'd:
-2 Pithing Needle
+2 Thorn of Amethyst

and maybe:
-4 Mishra's Factory
+4 Ghost Quarter

My meta is unlimited proxy so lots of shops and lots of young pyro decks.
 

If the meta is a lot of Shops and Pyromancer decks, I wouldn't play your list. I've found that the best card in both of those situations is Wurmcoil Engine.
I'd suggest going with the list I have posted with the report above except:
-3 Sphere of Resistance
-4 Tangle Wire
+3 Batterskull
+4 Steel Hellkite

This SUPER AGGRO shops deck really preys on Workshops and creatures, plus you have the resistors you need against the Pyromancers (Thorn, Lodestone, Trini). Just a suggestion, Good Luck with your Workshops!

Those are 7 cards I would never take out of my prison Shop deck. They are at the core of the advantages you are trying to gain with Smokestack.
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« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2013, 03:20:28 pm »

I played this list at our last vintage which was a month ago:
Creature (7)

    4 Lodestone Golem
    3 Phyrexian Revoker

Lands (19)

    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Mishra's Factory
    4 Mishra's Workshop
    1 Rishadan Port
    1 Strip Mine
    4 Wasteland
    1 Tolarian Academy
Spells (34)

    1 Black Lotus
    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Crucible Of Worlds
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Sapphire
    4 Smokestack
    1 Sol Ring
    4 Sphere of Resistance
    4 Tangle Wire
    2 Thorn of Amethyst
    1 Trinisphere
    2 Null Rod
    2 Pithing Needle

Sideboard
    4 Grafdigger's Cage
    2 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
    3 Tormod's Crypt
    3 Duplicant
    3 Maze of Ith

I think if I was to play today I'd:
-2 Pithing Needle
+2 Thorn of Amethyst

and maybe:
-4 Mishra's Factory
+4 Ghost Quarter

My meta is unlimited proxy so lots of shops and lots of young pyro decks.
 

If the meta is a lot of Shops and Pyromancer decks, I wouldn't play your list. I've found that the best card in both of those situations is Wurmcoil Engine.
I'd suggest going with the list I have posted with the report above except:
-3 Sphere of Resistance
-4 Tangle Wire
+3 Batterskull
+4 Steel Hellkite

This SUPER AGGRO shops deck really preys on Workshops and creatures, plus you have the resistors you need against the Pyromancers (Thorn, Lodestone, Trini). Just a suggestion, Good Luck with your Workshops!

Those are 7 cards I would never take out of my prison Shop deck. They are at the core of the advantages you are trying to gain with Smokestack.


If you are playing Prison, yes keep the deck the way that it is, but if you want an edge in the Shop mirror or against creature swarms like Pyromancer, Wurmcoil Engine and Batterskull fit the bill.
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Bloomsburg Tournaments:

1 Win
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2 Top 8

Outside Bloomsburg:

Winter Grudge Match lV Top 4

Creator of The Mana Drain Vintage League.

Website for The League:

http://tmdvl.github.io

Zombies ate your brains!
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