Human Stax

[Lurker101]

Hi! My apologies if this should be in the Human Ingenuity thread. I have not had an opportunity to test this yet. If you are down to test on Cockatrice please PM me. I would rather test this against the top decks then randoms and would really appreciate the help. I also appreciate any constructive criticism although I want to see how this deck does in a game before making any big adjustments. This is basically a Cavern Humans list that acts more like a Stax list would. I cut some disruption for power. I have an unpowered version that is more cohesive and will post that too. This version shares some elements with BrianPK's build in the Human Ingenuity thread. Here's the list:
Mana/Artifacts: 24
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Trinisphere
3 Cavern of Souls
2 City of Brass
2 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
2 Scrubland
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
Creatures:20
4 Braids, Cabal Minion
4 Dark Confidant
2 Glowrider
2 Grand Abolisher
2 Magus of the Unseen
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Zur the Enchanter
Enchantments:8
1 Aura of Silence
2 Bitterblossom
1 Contamination
2 Rhystic Study
2 Stony Silence
Instants: 6
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
2 Mental Misstep
1 Misdirection
1 Vampiric Tutor
Sorceries:2
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Time Walk
Sideboard: 15
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Devout Witness
1 Boseiju who Shelters All
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1 Notion Thief
2 Seasinger/Preacher
1 Dark Tutelage
1 Oath of Ghouls
2 Rest In Peace
1 Propaganda/Ghostly Prison
1 Mountain
Cards that could work but didn't make the cut in this version:
Oppression
Chains of Mephistopheles
Eye of the Storm In the Eye of Chaos
Abolish

Obviously Braids is your smokestack and works to keep your opponent behind on permanents while possibly attacking for two. Magus of the Unseen can steal opposing artifacts to sacrifice to Braids as well as answering Tinker and stealing Shop creatures to block. I felt that enough decks in vintage run enough artifacts to warrant two copies maindeck. Another card that breaks parity when combined with Braids is Bitterblossom. Bitterblossom is also part of the Zur toolbox and can be a source of flying damage as well as feed a Contamination. I feel like Contamination is similar to Blood Moon because it has the same effect on nonbasic mana while making all basic lands produce   which color screws the opponent further than a Moon would. Nonbasics get to keep their activated abilities though which is a downside but this deck is more concerned with mana denial. Contamination affects your mana as well so when you need to you can always let Contamination die during your upkeep. The other parts of the Zur package are Rhystic Study, Stony Silence, and Aura of Silence. Both Study and Aura can serve as spheres while Aura doubles as artifact or enchantment destruction and Rhystic Study can double as card draw. A lot of people disregard Rhystic Study because your opponent gets to chose whether it's a sphere or a source of card draw but in this deck either option should hinder them. I honestly think Rhystic Study deserves more testing in general because there are plenty of times you could want this effect and not want to use Mystic Remora. I feel Remora wouldn't fit here as it only affects noncreatures and only provides draw as most opponents won't pay the 4 mana. Remora also drains your resources. I feel Remora is good as a temporary source of resources and, more rarely, a temporary stall tactic while Study can provide an even advantage over a longer period of time. I feel like Stony Silence needs no real explanation. Only two copies are included because Zur can grab them and there's a decent amount of card draw and other answers.
I agree with Brian PK about not including force of will. Between Cavern of Souls and Grand Abolisher you don't have to worry about counter battles as much while there are several ways to deal with any threats that are able to get through your mana denial and other disruption. I did include a singleton Misdirection as a possible out to Abrupt Decay. The manabase and sideboard probably need work. The sideboard is basically cards that I thought could work maindeck but wasn't sure about. Dark Tutelege goes well against Notion Thief and Chains of Mephistopheles. If you wanted to include Chains I would suggest cutting some of the other card draw for maindeck Dark tutelage. It can also be fetched by Zur. Seasinger and Preacher are both answers to Oath creatures as well as just grabbing an opposing creature to sac to Braids like the way Magus of the Unseen does with Artifacts. I think the ideal SB split for Seasinger and Preacher is 1 and 1 as not all decks play blue but if they do Seasinger is better. The advantage to Preacher besides working against nonblue decks is that he is human. I probably don't have enough red sources for Jaya but I think she could work in a humans build and, along with Devout Witness, can turn extra legends clogging up your hand into useful disruptive effects.

[xouman]

Nice deck. Similar in its conception to some decks in Human Ingenuity post, but it's not for me to judge if this should go there :p

First: the idea of the deck. Being similar to brow stax, I'd include chalice of the void. At 1, you lose only 3 cards. At 2 you lose more, but cavern helps here. At 0, opponent cannot play moxen to sacrifice to braids.

I like the creatures' configuration. Maybe 4 braids is too much for my taste. I respect going the Zur's way, but I won't play it. I'd prefer any human with less mana cost. Probably canonist, improving storm pairing (zur helps the long games and braids is already good at that), but probably are other options there (maybe prodigy voidmage?). But I'm pretty happy to see confidant, thalia, glowrider, braids, abolisher and specially magus of the unseen. This is probably one of best decks for it.

Without zur some enchantments lose value. Maybe stony silence is good enough, but I'll cut all the other 6. Bitterblossom is easily replaceable with opiomancer (nice tech from HI masters). In those places I'd try Meddling mage (good synergy imho), mangara of korondor (maybe too slow, but also good synergy). Royal assassin? Probably too slow and narrow, but great in long games against creatures.  Sydri, Galvanic Genius? This deck likes to destroy moxen and seems a decent way, plus this deck is close to esper colours.

Contamination could be replaced with magus of the moon. Maybe too risky without deathrite shaman or hierarch.

ophiomancer > Meddling mage > ethersong canonist > voidmage prodigy > Sydri > mangara > royal asassin.

Ah, and I would add wastelands. Nice way to complement smokestacks I've heard.

[tito del monte]

Agree with Xouman, that this deck appears to be crying out for Chalice - perhaps with some number of sol lands in the manabase to power out Chalice at 1, plus help cast Braids.

I think Zur has merit - but in a deck where you can sac him to Braids, the first enchantment I would want to search out is Gift of Immortality - that way you can effectively blink him, searching out a new enchantment lock piece each turn (Oblivion Ring, Detention Sphere, Nevermore, Stony Silence, whatever takes your fancy...)

[msg67183]

Agree with Xouman, that this deck appears to be crying out for Chalice - perhaps with some number of sol lands in the manabase to power out Chalice at 1, plus help cast Braids.

I think Zur has merit - but in a deck where you can sac him to Braids, the first enchantment I would want to search out is Gift of Immortality - that way you can effectively blink him, searching out a new enchantment lock piece each turn (Oblivion Ring, Detention Sphere, Nevermore, Stony Silence, whatever takes your fancy...)

Zur's ability triggers when it attacks, unless I'm mistaken.

[tito del monte]

Zur's ability triggers when it attacks, unless I'm mistaken.

Whoops, reading is tech! Forget everything I said - although think Nevermore and Oblivion Ring would be useful in a Zur tool box.

[Guli]

Where is Ophiomancer?

[serracollector]

Detention sphere or Oblivion Ring should definitely be in that 75 somewhere to help answer planeswalkers, tinker targets, and well, about everything else.

[Demagoguery]

You know, I have a friend who plays 4C humans and he was talking about adding some Thorns in the side, along with looking for an answer to Inkwell Leviathan. Well, I suggested Ophiomancer since it can be tutored with Imperial Recruiter and does stop the Leviathan pretty well, while also being pretty decent against any deck that like ground pounders, so Lodestones and Goyfs.

I also suggested Glow Riders and maybe adding sol lands, so that he can have more thorn effects without having to run less dudes, and then I added jokingly that he should run Braids since not only was she human, but she worked great with Ophiomancer, and could be fetched up with an Imperial Recruiter, which is pretty cool (Resto+Recruiter for more card advantage). I actually started to think it was a pretty cool deck, since it did a lot of taxing, had the strip effects to punish mana bases, and could lock out games with Braids, and Smokestack is a pretty cool card, especially when it takes less time to get going, applies pressure, and can't be countered.

So that's really what I'd suggest, Sol Lands, Ophiomancer, and Imperial Recruiter. The Recruit would really allow you to cut back on the number of Braids while giving you more utility, and Sol Lands help you play those early Riders and such.

Also, as a funny aside I had to message my friend to make sure you weren't him as you posted this basically the day after I mentioned the deck

[Lurker101]

Thanks for the suggestions! I cut 1 Bitterblossom, 2 City of Brass, 2 Braids, 1 Thalia, and 1 Scalding Tarn. I also took Jaya out of the sideboard for Detention Sphere. I added 1 Ophiomancer which allowed me to cut down to the one Bitterblossom as Ophiomancer works just as well for Braids and Contamination as Bitterblossom. I did want to keep one Bitterblossom in because sometimes you want two active token producers and Zur still grabs this. I cut the two City of Brass for 2 Ancient Tomb. I feel like the acceleration is valuable and after cutting Jaya I feel like I don't need so many possible red mana sources. Adding Imperial Recruiters allowed me to cut down on 2 of the Braids and 1 copy of Thalia which freed up room for Chalice. I also cut the singleton Scalding Tarn for a second Chalice. This is the current list:
Mana/Artifacts: 25
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Trinisphere
2 Chalice of the Void
3 Cavern of Souls
2 Ancient Tomb
2 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
2 Scrubland
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
Creatures:21
2 Braids, Cabal Minion
4 Dark Confidant
2 Glowrider
2 Grand Abolisher
2 Imperial Recruiter
2 Magus of the Unseen
1 Ophiomancer
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Zur the Enchanter
Enchantments:7
1 Aura of Silence
1 Bitterblossom
1 Contamination
2 Rhystic Study
2 Stony Silence
Instants: 6
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
2 Mental Misstep
1 Misdirection
1 Vampiric Tutor
Sorceries:2
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Time Walk
Sideboard: 15
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Devout Witness
1 Notion Thief
1 Seasinger
1 Preacher
1 Dark Tutelage
1 Oath of Ghouls
2 Rest In Peace
1 Propaganda
1 Detention Sphere
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Misdirection
Notes on the sideboard: If you board in Chains you probably want to go -2 Rhystic Study and +1 Dark Tutelage. You can also board in Notion Thief as an alternative to Chains depending on the gamestate but if Chains comes in then Tutelage probably needs to as well. I also added an additional Misdirection in the sideboard just because of the amount of targeted removal out there. This is mostly for, as I mentioned above, Abrupt Decay which hits most of the permanents in this deck. I think Detention Sphere being able to hit multiple copies of certain permanents makes it a little bit better than Oblivion Ring.
I would still like to test a few things like In the Eye of Chaos and Nevermore as sideboard options. I wasn't even aware of Nevermore until Tito mentioned it. Thanks for that.

I also have an unpowered version of this deck that replaces all the power cards with 1 Strip, 4 Waste, 1 MisD, 1 Chains of Mephistopheles, and 1 Dark Tutelage. Would cutting some of the acceleration be worth it to add some extra disruption? I.e. Cutting the 3 moxes and adding Strip + 2 Waste?

[Demagoguery]

I wouldn't really suggest cutting back on Thalia, yes she's legendary but the difference between a turn 1 or turn 2 and not having a Thalia is massive in Vintage. Taking the hit of potentially drawing multiple Thalia's is better than not drawing one as early as possible, and while Glow Rider is a good addition, it's not a straight replacement since Thalia can be played out turn one a lot more safely than the Rider.

Edit: Also with a Braids going, Mana Crypt really isn't bad at all for you.

Edit2: Honestly, I'd cut the Zur, he's cute and all, but he just seems overly clunky and the random one of enchantments will be awkward to play when you have Thalia and Glow Rider. Even if you don't consider all of that, 4 mana is a lot, especially at 3 different colours and when you can't Tomb into it. At least with Braids you can get there with extra mana from Tomb and stuff. I kind of have the same issue with Rhystic Study, it just doesn't do that much for how much it costs, but you can cheat it out in play with Sol lands at least.

If you're looking for a card advantage engine, maybe Stoneforge with Skullclamp? It gives you a lot of power, lets you dodge your own chalices, is basically uncounterable on both ends, works well with Recruiter and Ophiomancer. It also lets you side in Jitte for the Delver/Merfolk/etc games, and play a Batterskull for some life and a big uncounterable dude. I'm also just a Skullclamp fan boy and have no qualms about throwing it on a guy and beating for +1 damage too.

 You're also running Dark Confidant, which feels risky since you're also using Tombs and have a higher curve, but I'm sure it's worth it.

[Lurker101]

Good points on Thalia and Crypt. I'll find room for them. I'm keeping Zur in for now though. I really like being able to tutor for whatever cheap disruptive enchantment I need and putting it directly into play. There's just so many good enchantments in W/U/B that are 3 mana or less and compliment this strategy.