Dark Times Deck

[snotball007]

I'm looking to get back into magic and play in the local tournament scene and figured I'd give Dark Depths a try. The greatest success I had was with powerless U/B dragon.dec back in say 2007 before I quit. Having sold my dual lands, I figured I'd try a mono colored combo deck (and mono-B dragon is pretty bad). I saw that in legacy a Maritocracy deck was floating around and figured I'd borrow the idea of using Exploration Map and Thespian's Stage. Granted, I have yet to play anyone and just got done putting together a rough deck and found it consistently putting out Marit Lage in turn 2 or turn 3. With the occasional stupid turn 0 win via Helm + Leyline. Anyway, here's a decklist that is far from optimized.
-Non-combo Lands/Mana- 25 (Too many swamps, need to cut down)
17x Swamp
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth (Need to add more. Probably going to end up with 4x)
2x Wasteland
1x Strip Mine
4x Dark Ritual
-Disruption- 8 (Probably going to add Thoughtseize once lands are cut down)
4x Duress
4x Pithing Needle
-Tutors/Restricted- 12
3x Exploration Map
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Necropotence
1x Demonic Consultation
1x Yawgmoth's Will (surprisingly weak here compared to other decks)
1x Mana Vault
1x Sol Ring
1x Lotus Petal
1x Crucible of Worlds
-Combo- 15
4x Vampire Hexmage
4x Dark Depths
1x Thespian's Stage (probably adding 1-2 more)
4x Leyline of the Void
2x Helm of Obedience (probably adding 2 to the SB)

The only reason Dark Confidant isn't in this list is because I don't own any at this moment. There is no such thing as a "proxy tournament" in my local area, so it's pretty much play with what you've got. The situation will probably be corrected at the end of the month thanks to plenty of overtime at work. I'm rather happy with the deck in it's current form, but know it can be much, much better. As for the sideboard, I still have no clue as to what I want in it yet. Going to have to play a bit more to find the weaknesses of the deck.

Edit: Had to update the list with correct totals. Accidentally forgot Yawgmoth's Will and Dark Ritual.

[Godder]

Please don't necro old threads, start new ones.

The rest of the topic:

I would play 2-3 urborg, not 4 by any means. you don't really NEED it, and you don't want the second.

confidant is REALLY important in monoblack. but if you cannot play it, try to get another kind of advantage, like hymm to tourach (one of the best CC2 black spells imho after demonic and confidant. my memory could fail though)

you probably should play 4 exploration maps, 4 thespian, 4 dark depths. map is open to null rod, but fetches both cards of the combo.

you are not playing null rods. well, better for exploration map and helm of obedience, but often null rod buys turns.

I'd play missteps of my own. they protect some key spells, and without confidants life loss is less important outside helm-leyline combo, most spells cost 1-2. be light on mana, you already play non-basic lands as win conditions. and dark ritual has little sense when you play so few so spells costing more than 3 mana....

Night's Wisper is a good budget alternative for Bob.

When I was playing a more combo focussed version of the deck with expedition map I found a singular shop worth the risk of drawing it as I could map for it turn one to put out the helm on turn two. I never played that version in a tournament because I thought that it lowered your consistency vs your best matchups e.g. big blue while not really addimg much other than more turn 2 cthulu.

I found the more controlling versions with the 8 duress effects, a bunch of high impact singletons and the full tutor package was the stronger deck in the end.

[xouman]

Night's Wisper in a budget deck seems anti-synergistic. MWS would probably not be available in a budget deck.

I found the more controlling versions with the 8 duress effects, a bunch of high impact singletons and the full tutor package was the stronger deck in the end.

yes, I agree with this



PD: sorry for the repost

[snotball007]

Sorry about the necro of an old thread. This place was a lot more active the last few times I posted. My mistake. Thanks for starting off a new thread.

I actually do like the addition of Dark Ritual to speed up the game. Such as Urborg, dark ritual, expedition map, activate map to grab Dark Depths. Turn 2 drop dark depths, tap for Vampire Hexmage. But I can see the point of where I'd need to be more controlling. I'm probably going to test Thoughtseize in this current build (later on this week when my play set is finished) and test without Dark Confidant. If I were to include Dark Confidant, I'd drop Thoughtseize for Cabal Therapy.

I was also considering Mental Misstep and possibly Not of This World. But I know Not of This World would be unplayable with Dark Confidants. As for Night's Whisper, I'm not exactly sold, but might try one to see what it's like.

Please don't necro old threads, start new ones.

The rest of the topic:

I would play 2-3 urborg, not 4 by any means. you don't really NEED it, and you don't want the second.

confidant is REALLY important in monoblack. but if you cannot play it, try to get another kind of advantage, like hymm to tourach (one of the best CC2 black spells imho after demonic and confidant. my memory could fail though)

you probably should play 4 exploration maps, 4 thespian, 4 dark depths. map is open to null rod, but fetches both cards of the combo.

you are not playing null rods. well, better for exploration map and helm of obedience, but often null rod buys turns.

I'd play missteps of my own. they protect some key spells, and without confidants life loss is less important outside helm-leyline combo, most spells cost 1-2. be light on mana, you already play non-basic lands as win conditions. and dark ritual has little sense when you play so few so spells costing more than 3 mana....

Night's Wisper is a good budget alternative for Bob.

When I was playing a more combo focussed version of the deck with expedition map I found a singular shop worth the risk of drawing it as I could map for it turn one to put out the helm on turn two. I never played that version in a tournament because I thought that it lowered your consistency vs your best matchups e.g. big blue while not really addimg much other than more turn 2 cthulu.

I found the more controlling versions with the 8 duress effects, a bunch of high impact singletons and the full tutor package was the stronger deck in the end.

[shrewarmies]

I don't like Night's Whisper in a deck without the full moxen suite, especially as you may be sinking a ritual to get the effect in this deck. Ritual, Thoughtseize, Bob seems much better in a lot of situations than replacing the Bob with a Night's Whisper.

I tried Cabal Therapy for a while and it was quite good but allot of the time I found that if I were running Surgical Extraction, Thoughtseize was better because of the ability to lead your opponent down certain paths, with therapy you are relegated to blind shots for the first one which is not where this deck wants to be. Therapy also has the chance of just not doing anything, much like Hymn to Tourach which is why I prefer Thoughtseize.

[snotball007]

I recently added 3x Thespian's Stage and took out 3x Swamp. Still have a few too many mana sources. Would like to turn another swamp into either a Liliana of the Veil or a Diabolic Edict. Just not sure which would be more appropriate. Pretty sure Liliana would be the best decision. Either way, first round of testing should be tomorrow with a friend. Might have to broaden my test group because he's still a newer player and not a perfect test pilot.

I don't like Night's Whisper in a deck without the full moxen suite, especially as you may be sinking a ritual to get the effect in this deck. Ritual, Thoughtseize, Bob seems much better in a lot of situations than replacing the Bob with a Night's Whisper.

I tried Cabal Therapy for a while and it was quite good but allot of the time I found that if I were running Surgical Extraction, Thoughtseize was better because of the ability to lead your opponent down certain paths, with therapy you are relegated to blind shots for the first one which is not where this deck wants to be. Therapy also has the chance of just not doing anything, much like Hymn to Tourach which is why I prefer Thoughtseize.

I was thinking more synergy between Bob + Therapy if life is getting low. I'm going to try and run without Bob to see how it is going once my final decklist is assembled. Then, proxy Bob and playtest with that. I'm still learning this deck as I'm going along (as with any "new" combo deck). This is such a far cry from U/B dragon.dec and mono-U trix which used to be my go to decks. Granted, that was when I last played and you could still stack damage...


EDIT: Thanks for the advice everyone. I did update this deck after a day of going to three card shops to get the last of the major parts. The only other thing I can think of adding is possibly a Maze of Ith, but still not sure about that one.

-Lands/Mana Sources- 28
10x Swamps
1x Strip Mine
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth (still wish to get at least 1 more in here)
1x Cavern of Souls
4x Thespian Stage
4x Dark Depths
4x Dark Ritual
1x Mana Vault
1x Sol Ring
1x Lotus Petal
-Other Combo Enablers- 10
4x Vampire Hexmage
2x Helm of Obedience
4x Leyline of the Void
-Disruption- 12
4x Duress
3x Thoughtseize
4x Pithing Needle
1x Diabolic Edict
-Tutor/Good Stuff- 10
4x Expedition Map
1x Necropotence
1x Demonic Consultation
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Yawgmoth's Will (have yet to need to use it)

Played a few games against my friend's Angry Hermit and Suicide Black. Both were pretty consistent wins, but I still don't feel as though my list is 100% optimal. Still much better than the first revision. I'm really hoping that it'll at least top 4 in local tournaments. I also realize that I'm not a veteran pilot with this kind of deck as I'm noticing that I'm not making the most optimal plays when it comes to land drops.

The dropping of Wasteland was solely due to my normally naming "Wasteland" as Pithing Needle would come into play. And if there were some sort of land causing me problems or to stall his mana base, I'd try to tutor a Strip Mine. Also seriously considering dropping YawgWin as it has usually been a dead draw for me or a dead card in the opening hand. Might replace with a second Crucible of Worlds.