93/94 Old School Magic at Eudemonia - May 18th

[BC]

Eudemonia will be hosting Northern California's first Old School Magic event on May 18th!
http://www.eudogames.com/magic/norcal-old-school-magic



This format is based off the established 93/94 format (for more information visit http://oldschool-mtg.blogspot.com/). For this tournament we will also allow Fallen Empires (Hymn to Tourach is restricted), Revised, and Chronicles.

NorCal Old School Magic
Sunday, May 18 @ 1 PM
$25 entry fee
In-store registration opens at noon
No proxies allowed
Black bordered cards encouraged
Foreign language cards are legal
Prizes will be announced later, but will likely consist of black-bordered 93/94 cards.

So dust off your white weenie deck from junior high and come out for some old school battles.

[JarofFortune]

I don't have the cards to make much more than some bad aggro deck, but I will probably be there. This looks awesome.


Edit: Also, what rules are we using?

[Smmenen]

I'll be there!  I'm glad you are allowing Fallen Empires.

[BC]

All current rules apply. This is more for simplicity than anything else.

[Zenvir]

I would love to play in this!  Perhaps a we can arrange such an event in the mid-west at some point.

[Smmenen]

Boo on restricting Hymn, btw.  Hymn was never restricted in Type I, so I view that as ahistorical

I like unrestricted hymn because it boosts a good discard strategy with 4 Hippies.  There are plenty of good anti-discard tactics to play like Psychic Purge, so I prefer Hymn be in here. 

[tribet]

I reckon you should reinstate the "Mana Burn" rule.
It was so simple and I believe interesting.

[Smmenen]

If you do, then Mana Drain can arguably be unrestricted

[tribet]

I used to have a deck revolving around:
- Mana Short
- Power Sink
- Drain Power
- Psychic Venom
- Twiddle
- Winter Orb

It wasn't great already and no more Mana Burn was the nail.

Sometimes, I wish the rule still exists:
- "Waste your Land?"
- "Floating Mana"
- "Attack Phase?"
- "Ok"
- "Hum well... as we both know, I have nothing to attack with. Second Main phase?"
- "Ok"

A good waste of 1 minute. It's not even funny.

People would think more carefully when playing Workshop, Drain, Tolarian... it would make Vintage games even tighter

[Pyromaniac]

We do something similar in the Netherlands for about 1.5 years now and it's very much fun: currently we allow sets up to Ice Age/Alliances/Homelands(no Coldsnap) plus we will test Mirage this time as an added set for this. We use a similar restricted list to what was normal in those days with the addition of Strip Mine and Necropotence, but we have 4 Hymns allowed.

Regardless; it is heaps of fun as you see cards you haven't seen in quite a while

P.S Long time since I've actually posted on TMD...plenty of other stuff to do in my spare time but I might get back into magic a little nowadays

[aahz]

Boo on restricting Hymn, btw.  Hymn was never restricted in Type I, so I view that as ahistorical

I like unrestricted hymn because it boosts a good discard strategy with 4 Hippies.  There are plenty of good anti-discard tactics to play like Psychic Purge, so I prefer Hymn be in here. 

Then we should unrestrict Workshop, too. I'm in favor of leaving Strip, Drain, Shop, and Hymn restricted for the first event (even though I'm for unrestricting all of them in principle) if only to prevent being forced to lose repeatedly to T1 ritual into hymn from decks playing revised hyppies and chronicles cards that completely go against everything that I stand for. If we're gonna do that we have to at least be able to consume EtOH while we're playing (and my sources tell me the probability of this happening isn't looking good). I would feel differently if Revised and Chronicles weren't allowed though. My vote is to restrict all four this time, unrestrict next time (also Power Artifact and maybe Time Vault just to convince myself they are necessary restrictions).

During/after the event we can discuss opinions on such matters in person amongst the people who actually want to play this sort of format (and hence are the opinions that matter anyway). Arguing for the sake of arguing (i.e. about the restricted list, the value/ethics of combining fermented beverages and competitive Magic, deck pimping philosophy, etc.) is more fun in person anyway.

Personally, I think it would be interesting to play a format like this without the burden of historical bias (e.g. with modern understanding of the game guiding decisions to ban/restrict rather than blindly follow historical precedent as dogma). I'd also like to see the restricted list and/or sets allowed fluctuate between events in order to maintain variety as well as provide an excuse to collect data on how annoying/oppressive/unfun various cards really are. Perhaps an elite set get assumed as "broken" (coughSoLoMoxenRecallWalkcough), but I'd even be willing to try crazy stuff eventually like unrestricting DT, Twister, and Wheel just to bask in the potential absurdity of it all even if the "obvious" does indeed turn out to be true.

I reckon you should reinstate the "Mana Burn" rule.
It was so simple and I believe interesting.

+1

[Smmenen]

Boo on restricting Hymn, btw.  Hymn was never restricted in Type I, so I view that as ahistorical

I like unrestricted hymn because it boosts a good discard strategy with 4 Hippies.  There are plenty of good anti-discard tactics to play like Psychic Purge, so I prefer Hymn be in here. 

Then we should unrestrict Workshop, too.

Workshop was restricted in May, 1994, while Hymn never was in Type 1.  There is no relation between the two cards.

Strip mine wasn't restricted until Wasteland was printed.  Black Vise wasn't restricted until 1997, and only because of the Prosperity deck. 

[aahz]

Boo on restricting Hymn, btw.  Hymn was never restricted in Type I, so I view that as ahistorical

I like unrestricted hymn because it boosts a good discard strategy with 4 Hippies.  There are plenty of good anti-discard tactics to play like Psychic Purge, so I prefer Hymn be in here. 

Then we should unrestrict Workshop, too.

Workshop was restricted in May, 1994, while Hymn never was in Type 1.  There is no relation between the two cards.

Strip mine wasn't restricted until Wasteland was printed.  Black Vise wasn't restricted until 1997, and only because of the Prosperity deck. 

Like I said, I think it would be more fun/interesting if it's ahistorical (i.e. without the burden of historical bias).  Some of us (or me at least) want more from such a format than simply historical reenactment.

[Smmenen]

Boo on restricting Hymn, btw.  Hymn was never restricted in Type I, so I view that as ahistorical

I like unrestricted hymn because it boosts a good discard strategy with 4 Hippies.  There are plenty of good anti-discard tactics to play like Psychic Purge, so I prefer Hymn be in here.  

Then we should unrestrict Workshop, too.

Workshop was restricted in May, 1994, while Hymn never was in Type 1.  There is no relation between the two cards.

Strip mine wasn't restricted until Wasteland was printed.  Black Vise wasn't restricted until 1997, and only because of the Prosperity deck.  

Like I said, I think it would be more fun/interesting if it's ahistorical (i.e. without the burden of historical bias).  Some of us (or me at least) want more from such a format than simply historical reenactment.

It's already not, though, since we use modern rules and errata.  

History is not a burden, it's a playground in this case. Following historical precedent is not blind if you understand the DCIs reasoning.

In any case, any restriction should be well founded.  Hymn's is not.  I can at least understand the others.

[JarofFortune]

What does everyone here think of an entirely white-bordered deck for pimping purposes? You could alter the black bordered cards to have a white border, and add insult to injury when you win. I just want to know if that would be an acceptable interpretation of the format's spirit, or a blasphemous violation of it.

[aahz]

What does everyone here think of an entirely white-bordered deck for pimping purposes? You could alter the black bordered cards to have a white border, and add insult to injury when you win. I just want to know if that would be an acceptable interpretation of the format's spirit, or a blasphemous violation of it.

Pick a side and then assert that you are correct no matter what anyone else says. I'll defend you even if I disagree. Pimp is in the eye of the beholder after all.

Or to put it another way: If you have to ask, it isn't pimp (because you pimp for your own pleasure).

[aahz]

historical reenactment.

It's already not, though, since we use modern rules and errata.  

I know. That's why I didn't understand why you were pushing to have the B&R list based on historical precedent.

Boo on restricting Hymn, btw.  Hymn was never restricted in Type I, so I view that as ahistorical

I guess you get a pass here because you used a smiley that can be interpreted in your favor. But then you go on...

Workshop was restricted in May, 1994, while Hymn never was in Type 1.  There is no relation between the two cards.

Strip mine wasn't restricted until Wasteland was printed.  Black Vise wasn't restricted until 1997, and only because of the Prosperity deck. 

Seems like a silly argument the way you presented it (would have been different if you had included <reasons> instead of <dates>).

If you'd read what I wrote, you'd see that I agree with you in general about B&R (as well as Hymn in particular). My point was that we should move in the direction of less restriction (as I'm sure you'd agree), and I don't see a compelling reason (yet), knowing what we know today, that Workshop should be restricted in this format either (hence the similarity to Hymn here). BTW, Blaine had to basically twist my arm to get me to NOT play with 4 Mana Drain in Old School decks (and he's bigger than me so, what was I to do other than admit defeat and be bullied into submission ).

[heiner]

SWEET !

[Smmenen]

Yeah, I am now the proud owner of a Chaos Orb  I haven't owned one in a long while

Along with a slew of sweet otherwise unplayable cards

I tweeted some pics of some old school Magic purchases recently.  Much more to come

[aahz]

The only thing better than flipping a Chaos Orb is flipping a Chaos Orb that could, in theory, land in someone's beer.

We have another dilemma though (or perhaps merely a clarification):

Legal Sets:
    Alpha
    Beta
    Unlimited
    Revised
    Arabian Nights
    Antiquities
    Legends
    The Dark
    Fallen Empires
    Chronicles

But also:

Black bordered cards encouraged
Foreign language cards okay

Obviously Italian Legends and Non-English Revised/Dark/FE are cool, but does this mean that Renaissance/Anthologies/OtherReprints are not allowed?

I propose this clarification:

Legal Sets:
    Alpha
    Beta
    Arabian Nights
    Antiquities
    Legends
    The Dark
    Fallen Empires
Any versions of cards in these sets are legal if they are printed with the old card frame.

Thoughts?

[Smmenen]

You don't mean old card frame -- you mean same art.  So, Swords to Plowshares in German revised is fine, but not in Ice Age...

[aahz]

You don't mean old card frame -- you mean same art.  So, Swords to Plowshares in German revised is fine, but not in Ice Age...

So then all the cards in this picture would be legal?

(well, besides the Jeweled Bird, Sulfurous Springs, and Ebon Stronghold on the right)

That is indeed the spirit I was looking for, since regulating by set seems cumbersome in practice. This still allows Timeshifted cards though (Psionic Blast at the very least). Are there any cards with the new card frame but the original picture that would then be legal? Should they be?

[tribet]

yeah for bragging!


too bad nobody where I live loves that shit 

[aahz]

Nice deck!

My pic wasn't bragging at all though (okay, the Juzam is nice, but otherwise nothing special going on). It was meant to show the problem with limiting cards allowed by set but still allowing reprints.
Strip and Factory are both 4th edition (both illegal based on the rules as stated in the announcement)
One Tower is from Chronicle, but the other is Fifth Edition (one would be legal, one not)
Tetravus is Renaissance (but does have the AQ symbol, but still illegal)
The non-Alpha Nether Shadows are from either foreign Revised or 4th (but all of them have a date of 1995 or later printed on the card). Only 2 of them are technically legal. Can you figure out which?

[RitNecroWin]

man! we did this in Pittsburgh in 2010- a total blast to play!
http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=40391.0

Force of Will isn't the house it is today! - Strip mine and LOA are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO broken back then.

Super fun to play!

[Smmenen]

I spoke with some folks at the tournament yesterday, and not surprisingly, many players felt that they couldn't get the cards together to compete.

If Hymn was legal, a mono black aggro deck could certainly be an option with 4 Hypnotic Specters and Pump Knights.

Mono Red burn or aggro/sligh is another option.

Finally, consider White Weenie with Land Taxes.  If you play White Weenie, you probably want Thunder Spirit, which is only a few bucks in Italian Legends.  

The main piece of advice I'd give (which I gave yesterday) is that if you are playing a budget deck, see if you can get ahold of City in a Bottle.

City in a Bottle destroys:

1) The best creatures in the format (Kird Ape (all versions), Juzam, Ernham, Serindibs, and more)
2) The best mana fixer in the format (City of Brass - both versions)
And stops LoA and Bazaars.

Because Chronicles is legal, City in a Bottle is even better because City of Brass is the main fixer.  

I can loan out at least 2 City in a Bottle if anyone needs them.  PM me if you do.  

[Smmenen]

Eudemonia will be hosting Northern California's first Old School Magic event on May 18th!
http://www.eudogames.com/magic/norcal-old-school-magic



This format is based off the established 93/94 format (for more information visit http://oldschool-mtg.blogspot.com/). For this tournament we will also allow Fallen Empires (Hymn to Tourach is restricted), Revised, and Chronicles.

NorCal Old School Magic
Sunday, May 18 @ Noon
$25 entry fee
In-store registration opens at noon
No proxies allowed
Black bordered cards encouraged
Foreign language cards are legal
Prizes will be announced later, but will likely consist of black-bordered 93/94 cards.

So dust off your white weenie deck from junior high and come out for some old school battles.

Blaine, this event starts at 1PM according to the website: http://www.eudogames.com/magic/norcal-old-school-magic

FYI

[BC]

Good catch, I have made the change in the OP.  Hopefully no major confusion will result.

I'm really looking forward to this event.  I haven't played organized Magic in quite a while, so this should be crazy fun.

[serracollector]

I can play my old school 4 ivory rower 4 howling mine 4 library of leng deck with nethervoid 4 fastbond and titanias song/winter orb and relic barrier. Fun times indeed

[Smmenen]

Winter Orb has been errated so it no longer turns off by Relic Barrier.



I know, that sucks.