Prophetic Flamespeaker

[fsecco]

So, obviously the double red makes him hard to use in any other deck than mono-red burn. But hey, this guy is pretty nice in burn decks, or RG Beats of sorts. It what burn always lacked: card drawing.

I like it.

(probably more relevant to Legacy, though)

[JarofFortune]

This card is definitely vintage playable. I can see this card being played in mono red painter in both legacy and vintage. Imperial recruiter fetches it. Its also possible that some humans decks want to play it, although those decks are not my area of expertise. In modern this might actually be better than courser of kruphix in BG/x shells, which could lead to another homogenization of the shell into Jund colors.

[evouga]

Wow. Two extra cards per turn, in red, is not something you see every day.

The problem with this guy though is that he's dead when he's facing down an opposing Lodestone Golem, Tarmogoyf, or other blocker with 3+ toughness. Unfortunately, that's exactly the situation where red decks need help most...

[xouman]

That guy cries for something that gives him +X/0, like runechanter's pike, reckless charge or even something that gives him evasion. Yes, bad cards, that's a pity. Not for every deck at all, but can find a niche.

[Guli]

[MaximumCDawg]

Silver Dagger is cute, but I feel like Bonesplitter or that X casting cost equipment is where you want to be from an efficiency standpoint.

Anyway, I like this creature immensely but I cannot see the deck he'd go into in Vintage.  Remember Markov Blademaster?  That was another 1 power 1RR double striker.  It didn't give you card advantage, but it grew so large so fast that it promised to be a decent mono red finisher.  I tried it for awhile, and just found that the casting cost was prohibitive.  I found I'd rather have Genju of the Spires almost every time. 

This guy draws cards (sorta) so that's good, but still... 1RR is hard to muster before they can counter/bolt/swords/decay it easily. 

I guess the bottom line is this: Selkie made the cut as a draw engine because she had evasion.  What other 3 casting cost Ophidan has been playable lately?

[Tha Gunslinga]

The problem with this guy though is that he's dead when he's facing down an opposing Lodestone Golem, Tarmogoyf, or other blocker with 3+ toughness. Unfortunately, that's exactly the situation where red decks need help most...

Presumably your red deck plays Lightning Bolt or something similar.

[Samoht]

Silver Dagger is cute, but I feel like Bonesplitter or that X casting cost equipment is where you want to be from an efficiency standpoint.

Anyway, I like this creature immensely but I cannot see the deck he'd go into in Vintage.  Remember Markov Blademaster?  That was another 1 power 1RR double striker.  It didn't give you card advantage, but it grew so large so fast that it promised to be a decent mono red finisher.  I tried it for awhile, and just found that the casting cost was prohibitive.  I found I'd rather have Genju of the Spires almost every time. 

This guy draws cards (sorta) so that's good, but still... 1RR is hard to muster before they can counter/bolt/swords/decay it easily. 

I guess the bottom line is this: Selkie made the cut as a draw engine because she had evasion.  What other 3 casting cost Ophidan has been playable lately?

To be fair it is effectively a 2 power creature by itself with the double strike. That's a little over curve but not that far off it. When you factor in the 3 relevant abilities, I could easily see this card being played in some decks, namely the Jund deck that was puttering around for a little while. RR is more of the problem than anything though. If it was 2R as opposed to 1RR I'd feel a lot more comfortable in advocating the card.

[AmbivalentDuck]

Has anyone tried tossing one of these into UR Delver to see how it plays? My suspicion is that it's more or less useless.

[Guli]

This card is different than the others because it has evasion with Trample. Chump blocking it will not work against this. Noble, Mayor and Trinket/Dagger can give it a serious boost. I will try it for sure, it looks interesting enough. With the new rainbow mana base, color requirements do not matter as much. This is good for 2 things, to cast this thing, and to cast the things it exiles. This is not a bad card in my opinion. I would classify it as 'playable'.

[fsecco]

Exactly. If you block this with a */1 creature, you will still take 1 damage on the normal damage step. Trample is very relevant here. I love the card and I'm very sad it has double R in the cost. OF course, if it hadn't, it would obviously be too good.

ps: and hey, you can always use Dwarven Warriors to make it unblockable!!!

[MaximumCDawg]

Too many "ifs" to justify a card that costs 1RR.  Sure, he'll win a battle with a Bob or an unflipped Delver.  But if it has 2 toughness, he dies in the process, and he costs too much to trade that way.  As a card advantage engine this dork feels too expensive and too conditional at the same time... just not very good.

I think two things could have made this guy competitive:

1) If he cost 1R, then he'd be splashable and he'd come down on par with Bob.  That at least would mean if he does trade or chump, you havn't dedicated too many resources or deck building slots to getting him out there.  (I think 2R is still too much, as is RR.)

2) If he had 2 power.  4 damage from a 3 drop is not above the curve, and this would at LEAST mean he trades with Lodestone Golem, instead of crapping his pants.

As is, I just can't see him doing any work.

EDIT: If you really want Dwarven Warriors (or Tawnoss Wand?) to do work, pair it with Markov Blademaster.  Once it connects the first time it's a 3/3 double striker, which can win fights against pretty much anything in Vintage that didn't come directly into play from somewhere it was not supposed to.

EDIT2: The 3 toughness is something I didn't notice at the outset.  That helps a little bit; he can chump some weenies profitably.  It's not enough to save the card, though.

[fsecco]

The Dwarven Warrios bit was a joke hehe.

But he has 3 thoughness, so he survives most combat steps. I think the guy is very strong, and a very nice design. Any other mana cost or P/T and he would be too strong.

That said, I can't see him in Vintage/Legacy outside of mono-red burn. Even in Painter I don't see him playing. Does Painter ever goes to combat phase? I mean, it doesn't have any creature removal, so making Flamespeaker connect could be hard.

ps: also, if Flamespeaker makes the Delver player hold Delver back to block, it's already helping you.

[Demagoguery]

The problem with this guy though is that he's dead when he's facing down an opposing Lodestone Golem, Tarmogoyf, or other blocker with 3+ toughness. Unfortunately, that's exactly the situation where red decks need help most...

What about in a deck featuring things like Mayor of Averbruck or Noble Hierarch? Any anthem effect gives him +2/+2 basically, which lets him quickly beat a Golem. Additionally, things like Hierarch allow you to potentially cast more cards.

[fsecco]

Noble Hierarch can't pay R mana, so I don't think they're that good together... =/

I could see him doing well in RG Beats. Imagine something like this:

4 Prophetic Flamespeaker
2 Grim Lavamancer
3 Vexing Shusher
3 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Tin Street Hooligan

1 Ancient Grudge
1 Dead // Gone
2 Nature's Claim
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Red Elemental Blast
2 Blood Moon

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Strip Mine
4 Taiga
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Wooded Foothills

[AmbivalentDuck]

Just a quick reminder that in Cavern Humans, his   cost is nearly irrelevant thanks to the printing of Mana Confluence. 4x City of Brass, 4x Mana Confluence, 4x Cavern of Souls. It's not clear to me that he's competitive with Dark Confidant.

To say that this is amazing with Jitte is an understatement, though. As Vintage continues to Legacy-ify, a double striking draw engine could see increasing play if the removal (this dies to basically everything) doesn't keep pace.

[Samoht]

Just a quick reminder that in Cavern Humans, his   cost is nearly irrelevant thanks to the printing of Mana Confluence. 4x City of Brass, 4x Mana Confluence, 4x Cavern of Souls. It's not clear to me that he's competitive with Dark Confidant.

To say that this is amazing with Jitte is an understatement, though. As Vintage continues to Legacy-ify, a double striking draw engine could see increasing play if the removal (this dies to basically everything) doesn't keep pace.

He doesn't have to compete with Bob though. Easily could be played in conjunction.

[fsecco]

Does Humans play red? I do not play the archetype that much to know if it's a relevant color. Even with Caverns, it seems double red should be hard to get if red isn't one of the decks main color.

[JarofFortune]

Even in Painter I don't see him playing. Does Painter ever goes to combat phase? I mean, it doesn't have any creature removal, so making Flamespeaker connect could be hard.

Mono red painter wins a lot of games from dork beatdown. Also, it does run removal. 1 mana vindicates that also counter any spell. This card is almost certainly playable in painted stone.

[Samoht]

Does Humans play red? I do not play the archetype that much to know if it's a relevant color. Even with Caverns, it seems double red should be hard to get if red isn't one of the decks main color.

With Mana Confluence, mana color becomes almost a non issue sitting behind 4 City, 4 Mana Con, and 4 Cavern coupled with Deathrite Shaman and the Waste/Strip package.

[vaughnbros]

Being a 2/3 trampler that uba masks you 2 cards every time he hits makes him insane for 1RR especially in any deck that can pump him and doesn't play permission.  As such he should be an auto include in Humans, and any of the red heavy lists, mono red, RW and RG.  This is the finisher that those decks have been waiting for.

I don't really get why people are discussing bad equipment.  His abilities are perfect for the best equipments, Sword of anything and Jitte, as he creates 2 triggers from his double strike.

[The Atog Lord]

This card looks awesome in Legacy Painter. Whether or not he will see play in Vintage, he's a card to keep in mind going forward.

[Demagoguery]

Noble Hierarch can't pay R mana, so I don't think they're that good together... =/

It can pay for the colourless mana symbol in his cost, overlaps with creature type for Cavern, gives him a pretty large damage boost, and helps cast the spells he exiles... I would say saying they're not good together simply because Hierarch doesn't produce red is a bit tunneled.

Also, a bonus fun fact, he overlaps in creature type with Deathrite Shaman.

Does Humans play red? I do not play the archetype that much to know if it's a relevant color. Even with Caverns, it seems double red should be hard to get if red isn't one of the decks main color.

Some of them do, since Recruiter is a nice additional tutor and things like Exzava and Hunt Master can provide a nice boost.

[fsecco]

Does Humans play red? I do not play the archetype that much to know if it's a relevant color. Even with Caverns, it seems double red should be hard to get if red isn't one of the decks main color.

With Mana Confluence, mana color becomes almost a non issue sitting behind 4 City, 4 Mana Con, and 4 Cavern coupled with Deathrite Shaman and the Waste/Strip package.

I actually think people are giving too much credit to Mana Confluence. Have you tried to play with 8 Cities before? Damage adds up pretty quickly. I don't think Confluence "solved color issues" like you guys.

That said, other people pointed out that he can be played in Humans that pack red, which I agree. And yes, Flamespeaker + Jitte/Sword of Fire and Ice is awesome.

Noble Hierarch can't pay R mana, so I don't think they're that good together... =/

It can pay for the colourless mana symbol in his cost, overlaps with creature type for Cavern, gives him a pretty large damage boost, and helps cast the spells he exiles... I would say saying they're not good together simply because Hierarch doesn't produce red is a bit tunneled.

Also, a bonus fun fact, he overlaps in creature type with Deathrite Shaman.

I thought you said Hierarch could help fix the color to pay for Flamespeaker. The fact that Flamespeaker is Human is what makes it so good, I guess.

[Demagoguery]

I thought you said Hierarch could help fix the color to pay for Flamespeaker. The fact that Flamespeaker is Human is what makes it so good, I guess.

Nah, it was that Hierarch is just awesome with this guy as a whole, and it does help fix mana, but more for casting cards he exiles over casting him personally.

It's not just that they're both human for Cavern, it's that:

- They share a very relevant creature type.
- Hierarch gives +2/+1 to this guy basically with Exalted, as opposed to +1/+1
- Hierarch enables you to cast all sorts of cards, especially things like Ancestral Recall if you're playing a non-blue Humans build.
- Hierarch can still ramp into this guy, since she can pay for the colourless mana costs.
- Hierarch is just a strong creature, as is this guy.

[msg67183]

I threw a humans list together to see how it would look.

Mayor Fish 2k14

4 Mayor of Avabruck
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Prophetic Flamespeaker
3 Meddling Mage
4 Dark Confidant
1 Exava, Rakdos Bloodwitch
1 Notion Thief

3 Abrupt Decay

2 Swords to Plowshares
3 Stony Silence
Ancestral Recall
Time Walk

3 Noble Hierarch
3 Deathrite Shaman

Black Lotus
Mox Jet
Mox Emerald
Mox Ruby
Mox Pearl
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Brass
4 Mana Confluence
2 Gemstone Mine
4 Wasteland
Strip Mine

Sideboard:

TBD

Haven't determined the board yet. But it will most likely have SFM Batterkull Jitte, a War Priest of Thune or two, some Grafdigger's Cages of course. But that's not as important right now, what are everyone's thoughts on the list?

[fsecco]

A shop near me is selling these things for 8 bucks on pre-order. You guys think it's worth it?

[gkraigher]

Someone else brought this up, as well as in other forums, and while it is great that we now have 8 cities of brass to work with, playing 8 cities of brass hurts.  Bad.

If you are losing 2 damage to your lands each turn, maybe even 3 damage, you have to find some other way to get that life back.  playing dark confidant is not that way.  

I think we might be really getting ahead of ourselves on paper and not thinking about the consequences of taking 5-8 damage in a game from our lands.  


As far as $8 is concerned, this card's floor is probably $5.  I think that is the absolute low this card could ever be worth.  I think it is very good, and has hope in a lot of formats.  The medium to long term upside is higher than $8.  So if you really want it and you are going to play it, that price seems fine.  So far, this set has been absolutely incredible as far as creating playable cards in every popular format (vintage, legacy, modern, standard, and edh).  So hopefully people will just crack open boxes of these and keep the prices low.  As of right now, with less than half the cards getting spoiled, I am still pretty confident you make money cracking open boxes.

LSV mentioned a high level reprint at the end of his article last week.  http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/td/294&dcmp=ilc-mtgrss

[Charlie]

When I cast a 3 mana card I want to lock down the game (Moon effects) or get the card I want immediately (Imperial) rather than waiting for a turn.

[vaughnbros]

When I cast a 3 mana card I want to lock down the game (Moon effects) or get the card I want immediately (Imperial) rather than waiting for a turn.

I think you are underestimating how much better this card is in combat than magus or recruiter and how much better drawing 2 extra cards every turn is than searching for 1 hate bear.  Most of the time you can't cast the card recruiter finds immediately anyway.

After some initial testing I can say that this card is a brutally powerful in the plateaus win again.  It creates Jace-esque levels of card advantage if not answered immediately and can easily put a game out of reach if it goes unblocked one or two times.  Its synergy with stoneforge is also pretty insane as with any decent equipment he can power over everything in the format other than some oath and tinker targets.