TO Report: The Players Guild 05/17/14

[Kameli0n]

20 vintage participants ventured to Bloomsburg for the chance to win credit and the NYSE II Qualifier this afternoon, a bit less than expected. Top 4 were awarded for the event.  First took home $300 in store credit and won the NYSE II Qualifier, second took $150 in store credit, and third and fourth each earned $50 in store credit. Thanks again to those who came out to support the format and play vintage in Bloomsburg, and we look forward to seeing you all for more events in the future!

The Metagame Breakdown:

Forces:
RUG Delver: 2 – 10%
UR Delver: 1 - 5%
Control Oath: 1 – 5%
Demon Oath: 1 – 5%
Grixis Control: 2 – 10%
BUG Control: 1 – 5%

Workshops:
Metalworker MUD: 1 – 5%
Stax: 1 – 5%
Aggro MUD: 2 – 10%

Bazaars:
Dredge: 1 – 5%

Combo:
Doomsday Gush: 1 - 5%

Brian Kelly Decks:
Magus Bomberman: 1 – 5%
Magusstorm: 1 – 5%

Fish:
4 Color Fish: 1 – 5%
White Trash: 1 – 5%
Merfolk: 2 – 10%

This event was run with 5 swiss rounds with the cut to top 8.

Top 8 Pairings and Results

Murray, Matthew vs. Kelly, Brian – Murray Wins
Edwards, Rob vs. Seals, Keith – Seals Wins
Scalzo, Anthony vs. Bergquist, Dan – Berqquist Wins
Navickas, Justin vs. Materewicz, Chris – Materewicz Wins

Top 4 Pairings and Results

Murray, Matthew vs. Materewicz, Chris – Materewicz Wins
Bergquist, Dan vs. Seals, Keith – Seals Wins

Finals

Materewicz, Chris vs. Seals, Keith – Seals Wins
 

Please inform us of any suggestions you may have for us to improve our tournaments in the future. And again, thanks to everyone who did come out to the event. Congrats to Keith for winning!

Top 8 Deck lists:

First – Keith Seals
“ The Smitty Bacall Gang"

1 City of Traitors
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Mishra’s Workshop
3 Cavern of Souls
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
2 Lightning Greaves
1 Staff of Domination
3 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Tangle Wire
2 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Metalworker
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
4 Lodestone Golem
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Duplicant
1 Sundering Titan
1 Blightsteel Colossus

SB:
3 Dismember
1 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Duplicant
1 Steel Hellkite
4 Grafdigger’s Cage
3 Crucible of Worlds

Second – Chris Materewicz
“No deckname provided"

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
4 Preordain
3 Lightning Bolt
1 Fire/Ice
4 Gush
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Steel Sabotage
1 Flusterstorm
2 Spell Pierce
4 Mental Misstep
1 Misdirection
4 Force of Will
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Delver of Secrets
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
3 island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn

SB:
1 Mountain
4 Grafdigger’s Cage
2 Red Elemental Blast
4 Ingot Chewer
4 Ravenous Trap

Semi-Finalist – Dan Bergquist
“ MUD"

1 Buried Ruin
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Strip Mine
1 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Mishra’s Workshop
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra’s Factory
2 Triskelion
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Lodestone Golem
1 Trinisphere
3 Crucible of Worlds
4 Tangle Wire
3 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Sphere of Resistance
1 Staff of Nin
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl

SB:
2 Grafdigger’s Cage
4 Leyline of the Void
2 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Duplicant
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb

Semi-Finalist – Matthew Murray
“Brian Kelly Deck aka Magustorm"

2 Notion Thief
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Magus of the Future
4 Force of Will
2 Misdirection
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Hurkyl’s Recall
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Time Walk
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Ponder
1 Brainstorm
1 Tinker
1 Timetwister
3 Underground Sea
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Volcanic Island
1 Island
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Opal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Vault
2 Sensei’s Divining Top
1 Memory Jar
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Chain of Vapor

SB:
4 Ingot Chewer
1 Viashino Heretic
1 Mountain
1 Hurkyl’s Recall
2 Thoughtseize
2 Grafdigger’s Cage
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Ravenous Trap
2 Yixlid Jailer

Quarter-Finalist – Justin Navickas
“Control Oath"

4 Oath of Druids
2 Griselbrand
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Show and Tell
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key
4 Force of Will
2 Mana Drain
3 Spell Pierce
3 Mental Misstep
2 Flusterstorm
3 Mystic Remora
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Steel Sabotage
1 Brainstorm
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
1 Misdirection
1 Memory’s Journey
1 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Flooded Strand
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical island
1 Island
1 Snow-covered Island
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Forbidden Orchard

SB:
1 Show and Tell
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Hurkyl’s Recall
1 Nature’s Claim
1 Massacre
1 Firespout
2 Pithing Needle
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Ravenous Trap
4 Leyline of the Void

Quarter-Finalist – Brian Kelly
“Cavern Bomberman"

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Opal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Sensei’s Divining Top
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Aether Spellbomb
1 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Dark Confidant
2 Auriok Salvagers
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Trinket Mage
1 Notion Thief
1 Magus of the Future
2 Force of Will
2 Mental Misstep
1 Spell Snare
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Hurkyl’s Recall
1 Repeal
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Ponder
1 Time Walk
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Cavern of Souls
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Flooded Strand
1 Scalding Tarn
2 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
2 Island
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
 
SB:
2 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Disenchant
2 Flusterstorm
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Hurkyl’s Recall
1 War Priest of Thune
1 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
1 Grafdigger’s Cage
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Steel Sabotage

Quarter-Finalist – Rob Edwards
“Australian Shops"

4 Mishra’s Workshop
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Mishra’s Factory
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
4 Porcelain legionnaire
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Tangle Wire
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Karn, Silver Golem
1 Trinisphere
1 Batterskull

SB:
4 Grafdigger’s Cage
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Witchbane Orb
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Wurmcoil Engine

Quarter-Finalist – Anthony Scalzo
“ Dredge"

4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 City of Brass
4 Undiscovered Paradise
2 Dakmor Salvage
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Bloodghast
4 Narcomoeba
3 Golgari Thug
4 Bridge from Below
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Serum Powder
3 Dread Return
3 Ichorid
2 Fatestitcher
1 Flame-kin Zealot
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Ingot Chewer
1 Sun Titan
1 Griselbrand

SB:
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Nature’s Claim
1 Darkblast
4 Chain of Vapor
3 Firestorm
2 Wispmare


Again, thanks for the support. The date of the next Bloomsburg event has not been set yet. Thanks again everyone!!!!! And once again, Congratulations to Keith!!!

[Smmenen]

Good job to Chris again with great success with my UR Delver (note to the TO, there is no green, but it is incorrectly described in metagame report as "Rug"). 

@ Chris: I would have run Pyroblasts instead of REB if I were you.  Red Elemental blast can cost you a game when you need to trigger a pyromancer on your opponent's endstep and need just 1-2 more damage to win the game on your turn, but they don't have any any blue pernanents in play. 

[msg67183]

Congrats to Keith and the rest of the Top... Sad day for the Blue Demons, a horrendous 1-4 record, the worst I have had with the deck so far, oh well...

Great event like always Shawn, keep up the good work.

[msg67183]

I would also like to point out that 3 out if the 4 workshop decks made Top 8, two of which made Top 4. Workshops is making a resurgence be careful haha. I find it humorous that when I played Shops without SoR I was in the wrong but two of the lists in Top 8 played 0 SoR unless I'm missing something or there is a typo.

[psu42]

Another good tournament, another top 8, and sadly another quick exit.  Oath needs to stop letting me down in top 8.

Good to see everyone there though.

[Samoht]

I would also like to point out that 3 out if the 4 workshop decks made Top 8, two of which made Top 4. Workshops is making a resurgence be careful haha. I find it humorous that when I played Shops without SoR I was in the wrong but two of the lists in Top 8 played 0 SoR unless I'm missing something or there is a typo.

Neither Keith nor Rob are really trying to be a prison deck. The Thorns are there more as a hindrance than anything else. Keith especially is minimally effected by their presence.

[ramrodjon]

Despite my abysmal performance, I always enjoy seeing Shawn's smiling face at a Saturday morning Player's Guild event.  It was great to hang out and catch up with the old Full of Win crew and spend the day slinging cardboard amongst friends.  A big congrats to the top 8, especially the man-diggity Keith Seals, who is on fiiiiirrrreee. 

[cvarosky80]

Seconded. Great job, Keith, and congrats to the rest of the Top 8 as well!

[Chubby Rain]

I would also like to point out that 3 out if the 4 workshop decks made Top 8, two of which made Top 4.

I would like to point out that both Brian Kelly decks made the top 8. Also, 2/3 decks running Mikokoro, Center of the Sea made the top 8. This is evidence of the dominance of these types of decks.

Thanks again Shawn for hosting a great event and congrats to Keith for taking it down.

[Cruel Bargain]

I would also like to point out that 3 out if the 4 workshop decks made Top 8, two of which made Top 4.

I would like to point out that both Brian Kelly decks made the top 8. Also, 2/3 decks running Mikokoro, Center of the Sea made the top 8. This is evidence of the dominance of these types of decks.

Thanks again Shawn for hosting a great event and congrats to Keith for taking it down.

The only thing this is evidence of is that 40% of the field made top 8.

[Commandant]

I would also like to point out that 3 out if the 4 workshop decks made Top 8, two of which made Top 4.

I would like to point out that both Brian Kelly decks made the top 8. Also, 2/3 decks running Mikokoro, Center of the Sea made the top 8. This is evidence of the dominance of these types of decks.

Thanks again Shawn for hosting a great event and congrats to Keith for taking it down.

21 years later and people still haven't figured out why Howling Mine is a bad card.

[Chubby Rain]

The only thing this is evidence of is that 40% of the field made top 8.

Yeah, I was trying to make that point via sarcasm though given Brian's success with his lists and my own experiences yesterday, I wouldn't be so dismissive. The Magus Storm deck went 5-0 in the swiss before losing in the Top 4. Not bad for a deck I put together the night before the tournament. I would recommend trying it out as it was a lot of fun to play.

21 years later and people still haven't figured out why Howling Mine is a bad card.

Mikokoro is not Howling Mine. It produces mana, giving it an additional functionality. As an activated ability, it allows you the option on when to use it. If you are ahead in the game, you don't need to activate. If you are behind, it may draw you back to parity. Using it at the end of your opponent's turn gives you the first chance to play a noninstant spell drawn off it. If your opponent has 7 cards in hand, they will have to discard a card netting you card advantage. Oh, and the interaction with Notion Thief is pretty sweet. I was very happy with how Mikokoro performed yesterday though again it was a limited sample size.

Edit: not really sarcasm, I guess. Just tongue-in-cheek.

[Ten-Ten]

I would also like to point out that 3 out if the 4 workshop decks made Top 8, two of which made Top 4.

I would like to point out that both Brian Kelly decks made the top 8. Also, 2/3 decks running Mikokoro, Center of the Sea made the top 8. This is evidence of the dominance of these types of decks.

Thanks again Shawn for hosting a great event and congrats to Keith for taking it down.

The only thing this is evidence of is that 40% of the field made top 8.

QFT
If it were a 30+ person attendance maybe I would see it differently.
/
Proceed...

[A.-1.]

(note to the TO, there is no green, but it is incorrectly described in metagame report as "Rug").

Or it is correctly listed UR Delver in the metagame report.


@Chubby Rain - I laughed at your joke, Matt.

[Smmenen]

(note to the TO, there is no green, but it is incorrectly described in metagame report as "Rug").

Or it is correctly listed UR Delver in the metagame report

It is now. Yesterday it said 3 RUG. 

[A.-1.]

Good job catching that error and beating msg67183 to be first to post in the TO report. Your interest in the Pennsylvania metagame is appreciated.

[Samoht]

Good job catching that error and beating msg67183 to be first to post in the TO report. Your interest in the Pennsylvania metagame is appreciated.

<3 you.

I got your joke as well Matt and appreciated it's cleverness. Sometimes wit is lost through textual media. It's quite unfortunate.

Mikokoro =/= Howling Mine at all. The card is fine. Though I would clarify that it doesn't "draw you back to parity" like Matt said. It just accelerates the game. When used EoT and/or when the opponents grip is full it has added utility as well. I appreciate the card, but there is a reason it's not all over the place. I admit it works well in conjunction with Notion Thief, but now we're playing multiple non colored lands (Cavern + Mik) to support these interactions. I don't know if that's where I want to be right now. I feel the need to play MORE colors as opposed to less. So many decks that are being pushed have almost no game in particular match ups. I have no idea how someone can walk into a tournament with a deck that is sub 40% against Control Oath and Mishra's Workshops and expect to win.

[WhiteLotus]

The magus storm deck looks sexy, I'll have to try it out

[Chubby Rain]

If it were a 30+ person attendance maybe I would see it differently.
/
Proceed...

@Chubby Rain - I laughed at your joke, Matt.

I got your joke as well Matt and appreciated it's cleverness. Sometimes wit is lost through textual media. It's quite unfortunate.

 

Mikokoro =/= Howling Mine at all. The card is fine. Though I would clarify that it doesn't "draw you back to parity" like Matt said. It just accelerates the game. When used EoT and/or when the opponents grip is full it has added utility as well. I appreciate the card, but there is a reason it's not all over the place. I admit it works well in conjunction with Notion Thief, but now we're playing multiple non colored lands (Cavern + Mik) to support these interactions. I don't know if that's where I want to be right now. I feel the need to play MORE colors as opposed to less. So many decks that are being pushed have almost no game in particular match ups. I have no idea how someone can walk into a tournament with a deck that is sub 40% against Control Oath and Mishra's Workshops and expect to win.

I think that'a fair clarification, though I did say "may draw you back to parity" as it's the extra cards that get you back in the game. It is also clearly not a card that will see a large amount of play. Mikokoro seems to be much better in these broken style decks as the cards you are drawing generally are higher impact. Dan Glantz tried to play it in his White Trash deck with Spirit of the Labrynth but he never had a moment where it was relevant.

The magus storm deck looks sexy, I'll have to try it out

The first time you Time Twister + Notion Thief your opponent on turn 2, you will be hooked (I did it twice yesterday).

[Samoht]

Thing is they get the extra cards too, so you're just accelerating what would happen in the game unless they had direct action and you had squadoosh and you drew answers/action and they draw squadoosh. The other side is that you could get squadoosh and give them action when their hand was otherwise dead. That's all I meant by it not enabling parity, and why Commandant was comparing it to Howling Mine.

[msg67183]

Thing is they get the extra cards too, so you're just accelerating what would happen in the game unless they had direct action and you had squadoosh and you drew answers/action and they draw squadoosh. The other side is that you could get squadoosh and give them action when their hand was otherwise dead. That's all I meant by it not enabling parity, and why Commandant was comparing it to Howling Mine.

Not if he has Notion Thief in play.

[Samoht]

Thing is they get the extra cards too, so you're just accelerating what would happen in the game unless they had direct action and you had squadoosh and you drew answers/action and they draw squadoosh. The other side is that you could get squadoosh and give them action when their hand was otherwise dead. That's all I meant by it not enabling parity, and why Commandant was comparing it to Howling Mine.

Not if he has Notion Thief in play.

This was covered already. We're talking about gamestates in which we are behind, not gamestates where we have NT in play.

[Chubby Rain]

Thing is they get the extra cards too, so you're just accelerating what would happen in the game unless they had direct action and you had squadoosh and you drew answers/action and they draw squadoosh. The other side is that you could get squadoosh and give them action when their hand was otherwise dead. That's all I meant by it not enabling parity, and why Commandant was comparing it to Howling Mine.

True, but like most symmetrical effects, they tend to favor the one pulling the trigger. You will rarely activate Mikokoro when you are ahead on board just like you would not cast Wrath of God when you have a superior board state. That is the most significant difference between Mikokoro and Howling Mine. Well, that and Mikokoro acts as a mana source too. I do appreciate usage of "squadoosh" though and am now forcing Google Chrome to recognize it as a proper word in the English language (no Google, I do not mean "squadron"...).

[Samoht]

Thing is they get the extra cards too, so you're just accelerating what would happen in the game unless they had direct action and you had squadoosh and you drew answers/action and they draw squadoosh. The other side is that you could get squadoosh and give them action when their hand was otherwise dead. That's all I meant by it not enabling parity, and why Commandant was comparing it to Howling Mine.

True, but like most symmetrical effects, they tend to favor the one pulling the trigger. You will rarely activate Mikokoro when you are ahead on board just like you would not cast Wrath of God when you have a superior board state. That is the most significant difference between Mikokoro and Howling Mine. Well, that and Mikokoro acts as a mana source too. I do appreciate usage of "squadoosh" though and am now forcing Google Chrome to recognize it as a proper word in the English language (no Google, I do not mean "squadron"...).

The thing is, likening this to WoG is a little off. You don't inherently add to the board, and neither does your opponent. As such, by WoG'ing from advantage you give up the advantage. With drawing cards the distinction is important. You both WILL draw a card each turn. Sure, you EACH draw an extra card. That doesn't say anything about card quality or getting ahead. If you don't use Miko you have X cards and your opponent has Y cards. If you do, you have X+1 and they have Y+1 cards. You don't actually get ahead by using it, you're just accelerating a turn sequence. It's quite POSSIBLE that you benefit more by being the first one to be able to use the extra card, making this better than HM (especially considering it can't be countered and produces mana), but not inherent as you imply.  You could easily draw the bomb diggity Sorcery and have drawn them into a Mana Drain. If you didn't use Miko, they wouldn't draw the Drain until their next draw step and your Yawgmoth's Will would have resolved. Obviously the inverse can happen here as well, but you know that already. I'm pretty sure I would use Miko every time I couldn't better use my resources in most board states. If I have the win in hand and protection and their hand is known/irrelevant I wouldn't, but that's about it.

[brianpk80]

The thing is, likening this to WoG is a little off. You don't inherently add to the board, and neither does your opponent. As such, by WoG'ing from advantage you give up the advantage. With drawing cards the distinction is important. You both WILL draw a card each turn. Sure, you EACH draw an extra card. That doesn't say anything about card quality or getting ahead. If you don't use Miko you have X cards and your opponent has Y cards. If you do, you have X+1 and they have Y+1 cards. You don't actually get ahead by using it, you're just accelerating a turn sequence. It's quite POSSIBLE that you benefit more by being the first one to be able to use the extra card, making this better than HM (especially considering it can't be countered and produces mana), but not inherent as you imply.  You could easily draw the bomb diggity Sorcery and have drawn them into a Mana Drain. If you didn't use Miko, they wouldn't draw the Drain until their next draw step and your Yawgmoth's Will would have resolved. Obviously the inverse can happen here as well, but you know that already. I'm pretty sure I would use Miko every time I couldn't better use my resources in most board states. If I have the win in hand and protection and their hand is known/irrelevant I wouldn't, but that's about it.

Essentially what you're saying is that "all things being equal, Mikokoro is a gambit that has comparably likely chances of benefiting you, hurting you, or being a wash."  However, any such things would not "be[] equal," because Mikokoro is played in shells that inherently benefit from speeding up the draw speed and are designed as contexts where the benefit is asymmetrical, like Storm and particularly Notion Thief.dec.  It enables intelligent plays that aren't always apparent at first glance like using it to fill one's hand to activate Library of Alexandria (and then using Library instead of Miko), forcing discards during a Standstill, setting up a win with Sensei's Divining Top, and screwing up an opponent's topdeck organizations via Jace/Top when he/she has Bob in play.  I had the pleasure of once outright winning a game because I'd Probed a Grixis opponent w. Colossus in hand and Bob in play; he played Jace next turn and used the +0; I was fairly certain he put Colossus second from the top.  On my turn, I played Mikokoro, had us both draw a card, and Boom, Bob killed him on upkeep.  Mikokoro is not the best card on the planet, but it definitely meets the demanding threshold for Vintage playability whereas Howling Mine is too problematic to even waste words discussing.  Mikokoro is only symmetrical in the same way Wheel of Fortune or Timetwister are symmetrical; when your deck is built to abuse any of them, you will more likely be the one reaping the benefits.  

I had a great time at the event.  My only regret is that I was unable to defend Matt from all the Delvers infesting the premises since one of the trade-offs in Cavern Storm v. Cavern Bomberman is that the latter has a dramatically better Delver match-up.  On the flip side, he steamrolled the Swiss with a flurry of quick kills while I was braindead trying to figure out how to best use a Lotus in play v. Chalice 0 w. both Salvager and Will in hand, and almost dying later that day to triple Deathrite Shamans, despite Crypting myself, Nihil Spellbombing my opponent, and then Nihil Spellbombing myself AGAIN.  Explosives @ 1 to the resuce, hallelujah.

Looking forward to next month and hope to see everyone at Calvin's Invitational!

-Magus

[Samoht]

The thing is, likening this to WoG is a little off. You don't inherently add to the board, and neither does your opponent. As such, by WoG'ing from advantage you give up the advantage. With drawing cards the distinction is important. You both WILL draw a card each turn. Sure, you EACH draw an extra card. That doesn't say anything about card quality or getting ahead. If you don't use Miko you have X cards and your opponent has Y cards. If you do, you have X+1 and they have Y+1 cards. You don't actually get ahead by using it, you're just accelerating a turn sequence. It's quite POSSIBLE that you benefit more by being the first one to be able to use the extra card, making this better than HM (especially considering it can't be countered and produces mana), but not inherent as you imply.  You could easily draw the bomb diggity Sorcery and have drawn them into a Mana Drain. If you didn't use Miko, they wouldn't draw the Drain until their next draw step and your Yawgmoth's Will would have resolved. Obviously the inverse can happen here as well, but you know that already. I'm pretty sure I would use Miko every time I couldn't better use my resources in most board states. If I have the win in hand and protection and their hand is known/irrelevant I wouldn't, but that's about it.

Essentially what you're saying is that "all things being equal, Mikokoro is a gambit that has comparably likely chances of benefiting you, hurting you, or being a wash."  However, any such things would not "be[] equal," because Mikokoro is played in shells that inherently benefit from speeding up the draw speed and are designed as contexts where the benefit is asymmetrical, like Storm and particularly Notion Thief.dec.  It enables intelligent plays that aren't always apparent at first glance like using it to fill one's hand to activate Library of Alexandria (and then using Library instead of Miko), forcing discards during a Standstill, setting up a win with Sensei's Divining Top, and screwing up an opponent's topdeck organizations via Jace/Top when he/she has Bob in play.  I had the pleasure of once outright winning a game because I'd Probed a Grixis opponent w. Colossus in hand and Bob in play; he played Jace next turn and used the +0; I was fairly certain he put Colossus second from the top.  On my turn, I played Mikokoro, had us both draw a card, and Boom, Bob killed him on upkeep.  Mikokoro is not the best card on the planet, but it definitely meets the demanding threshold for Vintage playability whereas Howling Mine is too problematic to even waste words discussing.  Mikokoro is only symmetrical in the same way Wheel of Fortune or Timetwister are symmetrical; when your deck is built to abuse any of them, you will more likely be the one reaping the benefits.  

...

Looking forward to next month and hope to see everyone at Calvin's Invitational!

-Magus

I said it was better than HM multiple times, no need to beat the horse.

RE Jace+Bob+BSC vs Mikokoro: Bad Player or Auto-Pilot, not evidence supporting Mikokoro. You always take advantage of either scenario very well Brian. We're talking about people who see the lines from both sides, not just their own. The smarter player either has a guaranteed shuffle or deck manipulation or doesn't put BSC on top at all do avoid the WIFOM of 1st/2nd card.

RE Mikokoro's value: I think it's much closer to the edge of Vintage playability than you seem to purport. Likening it to Wheel/Twister is closer than WoG, but still too far away from kinship for me to simply agree. Those cards inherently reset hands, and you can easily build around that. If you are behind, they immediately get you back to parity - like Matt intimated above - and that's where most of the value is. Drawing 7 each at once is MUCH different than Drawing 1 each.  Disregarding that is a mistake. There is a reason those cards have been built around for ages. Mikokoro isn't a new card on the scene. It's been around for over a decade. Matt, yourself, and I are likely the only ones to ride it into a t8 finish, if not in very select company. We understand it's value better than most. That doesn't mean we should be blind to its weaknesses as well.

Edit: Meant to write that I will definitely see you there and am looking forward to it.

[brianpk80]

I said it was better than HM multiple times, no need to beat the horse.

Oh that part wasn't directed at you.

Most of the points you made are on target.  In the example used w. Bob, I had Mikokoro in hand and it wasn't anticipated so there was nothing awful about putting BSC 2nd from the Top.  For the threshold of playability, it's not astronomically over the line, agreed; it's just a playable card, but given the peculiarities of Vintage, that does relegate it to a very small subset of the thousands of cards printed, making even a modest acknowledgment of potential playability a badge of distinction.  It's obviously not as rawly powerful as Twister/Wheel (nor does it need to be given that it's a mana producing Land); the point there was that superficially symmetrical spells/permanents have asymmetrical effects when included in the proper contexts (classic example, Sphere of Resistance). 

FWIW, I managed to beat Turn 1 Library in a control mirror with Turn 1 Mikokoro/Mana Crypt on Saturday.  Timing is everything.   

[jbarkon]

Congrats on the win Keith

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

Hmmmm...If someone is activating this howling mine land while I have standstill in play forcing me to discard, I will be happy to sculpt my hand better then yours

Congrats as well Keith

[Samoht]

Hmmmm...If someone is activating this howling mine land while I have standstill in play forcing me to discard, I will be happy to sculpt my hand better then yours

Congrats as well Keith

I mean if you present no pressure and their hand is below 7, I'd definitely be using it. I'd especially love to fire off one irrelevant instant EoT AND use it to turn your Standstill into a Draw 4 Discard 2-4, Opponent Draws 1.