Arena/Magus of the Arena

[TheWhiteDragon]

Both cards read:

3, Tap: Tap target creature you control and target creature of an opponent's choice he or she controls. Those creatures fight each other. (Each deals damage equal to its power to the other.)

Can I choose a tapped creature I control?  Like, if I have already attacked, can I then cause that critter to fight an opponent's critter?  I know I can target an untapped artifact with voltaic key for example, so can I choose a tapped critter to throw in the arena?

[bactgudz]

Both cards read:

3, Tap: Tap target creature you control and target creature of an opponent's choice he or she controls. Those creatures fight each other. (Each deals damage equal to its power to the other.)

Can I choose a tapped creature I control?  Like, if I have already attacked, can I then cause that critter to fight an opponent's critter?  I know I can target an untapped artifact with voltaic key for example, so can I choose a tapped critter to throw in the arena?

yes...there is no targeting restriction on the creature other than being under your control.

[TheWhiteDragon]

Follow up:

If a creature I control has deathtouch, would it kill the critter it fights via arena even though it's not "combat"?

Would a creature with first strike be able to kill an opposing creature before receiving damage, or do they both get their swings in as if neither had first strike?

Do double strikers hit twice, or just once from arena?  (I assume first strike and double strike are removed from the equation since it's not combat...but I'm not sure about deathtouch)

[vaughnbros]

The reminder text should clarify:

Deathtouch (Any amount of damage this deals to a creature is enough to destroy it.)  This is not related to combat damage so 1 point of damage from the deathtouch creature will kill the other creature.  Note deathtouch is different from some of the older cards abilities, i.e. stinkweed imp's Whenever Stinkweed Imp deals combat damage to a creature, destroy that creature, which only works in combat.

First strike (This creature deals combat damage before creatures without first strike.)
Double strike (This creature deals both first-strike and regular combat damage.)
These two explicitly state the ability only functions in combat, which means fighting doesn't count and they won't work in conjunction with arena.

[TheWhiteDragon]

Thanks!  That's exactly what I thought based on the card texts, but I figured better to get a ruling now than find out from a judge mid-tourney that my assumptions are wrong!

[TheWhiteDragon]

I attacked with my tarmgoyf (4/5) in the last tourney.  Then dropped arena and tapped it +3 to make tarm fight my opponents lone dark confidant.  He called a judge and said I can't use arena on tarm because it was already tapped.  The judge agreed with my opponent.  Was the judge wrong, or was the advice I got here from earlier wrong?

[fsecco]

The judge was wrong (kinda obviously - bad, bad judge!)

It's on the card's Gatherer info:

"10/4/2004   Either or both creatures can be tapped prior to using the ability and it still works."

[TheWhiteDragon]

The judge was wrong (kinda obviously - bad, bad judge!)

It's on the card's Gatherer info:

"10/4/2004   Either or both creatures can be tapped prior to using the ability and it still works."

Good to know - unfortunately it screwed me out of a win on the lethal counterswing (I was at 2 life).

So looking at Gatherer's ruling:

9/25/2006   If either target is illegal at the time the ability resolves (whether because it has left the battlefield, because it has gained Shroud or Protection, or for any other reason), the ability taps the remaining target, but no damage is dealt. If both targets are illegal, the ability is countered.

Does "or for any other reason" mean I can activate Arena (since tapping targets isn't part of the cost) even if I control no creatures just to tap my opponent's creature (like pre-combat to prevent him from having an attacker)?

[fsecco]

9/25/2006   If either target is illegal at the time the ability resolves (whether because it has left the battlefield, because it has gained Shroud or Protection, or for any other reason), the ability taps the remaining target, but no damage is dealt. If both targets are illegal, the ability is countered.

Does "or for any other reason" mean I can activate Arena (since tapping targets isn't part of the cost) even if I control no creatures just to tap my opponent's creature (like pre-combat to prevent him from having an attacker)?

Nope. As with any ability, you must have legal targets by the time you activate it.

[TheWhiteDragon]

So there are lots of questions about these neat little cards.

I have Kira, Great Glass Spinner and a dark confidant in play.  My opponent has Juggernaut and magus of the arena.  If he activates magus to make my confidant and his Juggernaut fight, is the ability of magus countered (assuming it was the first targeted spell or ability on my confidant that turn), or does it resolve since I am choosing the creature that fights?  This is somewhat a ruling on both Kira and Arena and their interaction.

Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
Flying
Creatures you control have "Whenever this creature becomes the target of a spell or ability for the first time in a turn, counter that spell or ability."
2/2

Magus of the Arena
3, Tap: Tap target creature you control and target creature of an opponent's choice he or she controls. Those creatures fight each other. (Each deals damage equal to its power to the other.)
5/5

[fsecco]

And why wouldn't it be countered? Magus ability targets, so it will be countered as a whole. The creatures fighting each other is not a separate part of the ability: it's still the same ability.

[TheWhiteDragon]

Yet another question on my new favorite card

If I control a Magus of the Arena and my opponent has Thrun, the Last Troll...when I activate magus (assume they are the only 2 critters on the battlefield) will they fight?  I control the source that is doing the ability, but my opponent is doing the targeting.  Does that dodge hexproof, or is it still blocked since I control the source of the ability?

I assume shroud critters can't be targeted with Magus/Arena at all (as with any targeting ability).

[bactgudz]

Yet another question on my new favorite card

If I control a Magus of the Arena and my opponent has Thrun, the Last Troll...when I activate magus (assume they are the only 2 critters on the battlefield) will they fight?  I control the source that is doing the ability, but my opponent is doing the targeting.  Does that dodge hexproof, or is it still blocked since I control the source of the ability?

I assume shroud critters can't be targeted with Magus/Arena at all (as with any targeting ability).

Thrun cannot be chosen by the opponent as a target since arena's ability is an ability you control.

[Clariax]

If I control a Magus of the Arena and my opponent has Thrun, the Last Troll...when I activate magus (assume they are the only 2 critters on the battlefield) will they fight?  I control the source that is doing the ability, but my opponent is doing the targeting.  Does that dodge hexproof, or is it still blocked since I control the source of the ability?

To clarify a bit more, if Thrun, the Last Troll is the only creature your opponent controls, you cannot activate the Magus at all.  You can't activate an ability that requires targets if you don't have the necessary legal targets available.