Chasm Skulker M15

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

Chasm Skulker  
Creature - Squid Horror
1/1
Whenever you draw a card, put a +1/+1 counter on Chasm Skulker
When Chasm Skulker dies, put X 1/1 blue Squid creature tokens with islandwalk onto the battlefield, where X is the number of +1/+1 counters on Chasm Skulker.

This may potentially see vintage play in a deck with draw spells and/or gushes? It has a fun ability vs removal as well...

[Eastman]

Well this is better than Lorescale Coatl.  As someone who played around with Coatl, I'll add that the +1 per draw effect is really abusive with Jace TMS, as well as any other effect that has you draw and discard or draw and return.  With this plus Coatl, there are now two creatures with this effect, plus Pyromancer which is similar, all of which would play nice with the same suite of gush-like filters. 

[boggyb]

Beautiful. A mono-blue grow creature, to compliment our mono-blue Wild Nacatl. Between this and Delver, why play any other color?

[gkraigher]

I think the fairest comparison to this card is actually true-name nemesis.  Which of these two cards would you rather have in play?

This card is better against toxic deluge, but in almost all other situations, I think you would prefer the nemesis.  

But this card is certainly interesting, and has potential. 

[Eastman]

I think the fairest comparison to this card is actually true-name nemesis.  Which of these two cards would you rather have in play?

This card is better against toxic deluge, but in almost all other situations, I think you would prefer the nemesis. 

I think it depends a great deal on the archetype.  A card like this could be a combo enabler in a combo-control archetype like pyschatog was for many years.  On the other true-name is a lousy combo piece, but is superior in aggro or aggro-control archetypes.  Not saying this will work that well in a combo-control shell, but it could potentially serve a very different role from true-name. 

[Soly]

I think this card is a good finisher in a really grindy control deck.

Also, Ancestral Vision is funny with this.

[Samoht]

I had a Legacy Coatl deck that played Sylvan Library to take advantage of its wording. Obviously the card would do well here.

[JACO]

The fact that this leaves tokens behind when it dies is pretty nuts. I could see myself playing a number of these.

[Eastman]

The fact that this leaves tokens behind when it dies is pretty nuts. I could see myself playing a number of these.

Yes although, not when it's hit with an STP . 

[ben_berry]

You mean you're not sacking it intentionally?

[vaughnbros]

You mean you're not sacking it intentionally?

Sacrifice him to therapy then skull clamp all the tokens.  Its like drawing an additional 2 cards for every card you've drawn!

He's certainly an improvement from lorescale coatl, but that card sees no play.  The card still has similar limitations in that its still essentially a 3 mana vanilla beater and its not even necessarily good at that until you've drawn a few cards.  Jace bounce or swords negate his second ability so its not really a guarantee that you'll get that trigger, but that ability does make your opponent think twice about abrupt decaying it since the tokens will be unblockable against most decks in the format.  

Conclusion: I like the potential here, but I don't expect it to make waves.

[tribet]

I'll try in a Mono Blue Stompy-ish/Prison deck with Ancient Tombs, Tangle Wires, SkullClamps, Gush, Thirst, Back to Basics, Metamorph, Tinker/Bot/Key/Vault, Drain, Trinisphere....

[Samoht]

I mean as long as people are playing Grey Ogre in Vintage nowadays, this card has to be good. 

[Commandant]

I mean as long as people are playing Grey Ogre in Vintage nowadays, this card has to be good. 

But Greg Ogre gets you really great cards. This is just Dryad with worse cc, a clause that makes it into Pyromancer without the benefits of being Pyromancer, and artwork only Jesse Martin would buy.

[Saya]

At least I can guarantee this is better than Coatl,but the problem is that its PIG ability won't trigger.Players manage big creatures by exiling or bouncing.

[vaughnbros]

I mean as long as people are playing Grey Ogre in Vintage nowadays, this card has to be good.  

But Greg Ogre gets you really great cards.

Just for clarification we are referring to trinket mage right?

This is just Dryad with worse cc, a clause that makes it into Pyromancer without the benefits of being Pyromancer, and artwork only Jesse Martin would buy.

Not really comparable to dryad or pyromancer as this card is blue (allowing it to be pitched to force and requiring no second color in your deck) it will grow without any other cards in hand and it synergies extremely well with cards like Sensei's top and Jace, none of which are true of the two former cards.

[boxian]

I think the weakest part is that it's an "upon death" style trigger vs a "leave the battlefield" trigger. I like the idea of the card, but I don't think it will see much play because it can be dealt with the way anyone deals with big creatures. The nice thing about it is that it is better vs edict effects.

At the end of the day though, will anyone play an answerable vanilla creature who doesn't end the game in one hit? Blightsteel is an instant win and is only answerable 2 ways. True Name Nemesis is a pain to deal with. Delver is fast, Young Pyromancer grows horizontally, and Tarmogoyf is easier to always be a large beater (subsequent goyfs are all the same size, each additional one of these requires you to draw a new 4 cards to be reasonable).

Actually, upon reflection, that is the weakest part of the card: that getting the power/toughness to be reasonable after the early turns will require to draw enough cards to where you have probably already won the game.

[tribet]

Well, this card fits better in prison shell. It interacts greatly with Smokestack & Tangle Wire. I think that's where you want to look first.

It is painfully slow card in the early turns, so maybe you need to jam other stuff like Repeal, Mystic Remora to make it good until you get that SkullClamp on board.

[Samoht]

I mean as long as people are playing Grey Ogre in Vintage nowadays, this card has to be good.  

But Greg Ogre gets you really great cards.

Just for clarification we are referring to trinket mage right?

I meant Elvish Spirit Guide.

[evouga]

I agree that this card wants to be in a combo-control shell, with many tools to filter through your deck and build cards-drawn count such as Cephalid Coliseum, maybe even stuff like Ideas Unbound.

Blightsteel is an instant win and is only answerable 2 ways.

Off of the top of my head I can think of at least 11 Vintage staples that can handle Blightsteel.

[tribet]

There are many cards indeed but I think he meant "mechanics" to answer Blightsteel such as:
- bounce
- exil
- tap
- sac
- steal
- swap
- copy
- phase out
- race
- tax (Propaganda, Ensnaring Bridge)
- ignore (Platinum Angel)
- ...

[hashswag]

There are many cards indeed but I think he meant "mechanics" to answer Blightsteel such as:
- bounce
- exil
- tap
- sac
- steal
- swap
- copy
- phase out
- race
- tax (Propaganda, Ensnaring Bridge)
- ignore (Platinum Angel)
- ...

 

[gkraigher]

Actually, upon reflection, that is the weakest part of the card: that getting the power/toughness to be reasonable after the early turns will require to draw enough cards to where you have probably already won the game.

This is the problem I see with the card.  If you play it and gush on the same turn, now you have a 3/3.  That is very similar board state as if you simply played true-name nemesis.

If you don't have an enabler like gush or brainstorm in hand, then this card is even worse.  

[AmbivalentDuck]

Neither True-Name nor Skulker has haste. It likely has 5+ power when it swings. The real issue is that nothing in Vintage is going to kill this with more than one counter on it. Folks will bounce/counter/exile/ignore it. If it triggered on leaving the battlefield, I'd consider it very playable. As stands...meh. It's Lorescale Coatl.

[MaximumCDawg]

It's not JUST Lorescale.  It's easier to cast and harder to deal with. 

I wonder if this guy does something in a blue prison deck in Legacy?  Sol Lands, Trinisphere, Back to Basics and friends all play very nicely with a guy who grows over time.

[boxian]

There are many cards indeed but I think he meant "mechanics" to answer Blightsteel such as:
- bounce
- exil
- tap
- sac
- steal
- swap
- copy
- phase out
- race
- tax (Propaganda, Ensnaring Bridge)
- ignore (Platinum Angel)
- ...

Indeed, I meant mechanics. Thanks for providing such a long list of 2.

[Demagoguery]

So, something I haven't seen mentioned here but I think is important, is that Abrupt Decay is a very common piece of removal in Vintage, and this guy has pseudo-protection from it, with some upside if you need to Decay him yourself in some situations.

True-Name is a bit better initially, but one Jace activation does make this guy pretty big, and seeing as he'd probably protect Jace for the turn, he'd be something like an 8/8 swinging in if you Brainstorm again the following turn when he can attack. Also, while he's weaker against some removal like Jace or StP, he's stronger against things like Ratchet Bomb, Toxic, Supreme Verdict, Balance, Orzhov Pontiff (none token form), Golgari Charm (Which I'm surprised hasn't seen more play), and so forth. Additionally he can buy you a turn blocking a Blightsteel a lot better than True-Name.

As a whole I don't think he's better than True-Name, I just think he's different and requires more consideration.

[gkraigher]

removal comparisons between skulker and true-name

skulker is weaker against:

swords to plowshares
path to exile
jace, the mindscuplter
abrupt decay
duplicant
triskelion  (if it's already on the board)
lightning bolt

skulker is better against:

toxic deluge
Wrath effects
ratchet bomb
balance

You would prefer to be stronger against the more frequently played top list than the bottom.  

I haven't seen true-name show up in a decklist with Jace yet, so I just don't know if this kind of creature is ever wanted in a blue based control deck.  I doubt that it is better than young pyromancer, but it might be better than tarmogoyf.  

It does interact well with Dack Fayden, so someone will try it out in a Red/Blue shell.  It's interaction with Jace's brainstorm is bonkers, and it has synergies with many of the best cards in the format.

[Grand Inquisitor]

removal comparisons between skulker and true-name

I'm not especially good at card evaluations, but there is one thing I've noticed as a frequent mistake by me and others: what happens when the card is not answered?

Ie, everything can be answered by something in this format.  But how good is it when it persists and does its function?  This has the raw text and synergy to be quite powerful if it's not removed.

Also, it pitches to FoW.