Red land

[zimagic]

You know you've been playing too lmong when yu start brainstorming ways to close the multi-mana land cycles started in Urza's block. Urza's gave us Academy, Sanctum & Cradle. Black since got Coffers & Crypt. These "fixed" lands aren't on the power level of their predecessors, but both are very black and very thematic and powerful in the right circumstances.

Red screwed the pooch on this cycle once again. What's your submission for the broken red Legendary land or the fixed non-legendary equivalent?

Red Legendary Land
 : Add  for each non-basic land you control.


Red non-Legendary Land
RN-LL comes onto the battlefield tapped.
 , : Add  for each Sorcery card in all graveyards.

[psly4mne]

The cycle was complete in Urza's Saga - black's legendary land was Phyrexian Tower and red's was Shivan Gorge. Phyrexian Tower sees play in Commander and saw fringe play in multiple contructed formats. Shivan Gorge was just terrible. You are right that red remains the only color with no multi-mana land (excluding a few CIPT 5 color cycles). If it got one today, it would probably require discarding cards as a cost. Maybe something like , Discard a card: Add {R}.

[Wagner]

Shivan Gorge is very playable in Type 4, but indeed, not anywhere else, and had no business being legendary in the first place, if you have 2 of them and 6 mana available, you should damn well be able to do 2 damage per turn.

Problem is that red hates non-basic lands, so it would be pretty unflavorful to have it give you extra mana for the ones you have, unless you add some kind of malus. Discard a card would make it terrible, pay 2 life might be ok, but clearly make the land a bit harder to use.

[Killane]

Since red hates on nonbasics, what about

 : add   to your mana pool for each nonbasic land controlled by an opponent.

It's very powerful, but also very random, since it does Nothing if your opponent has only basics.

Would likely have to be banned in EDH, or any other multiplayer format (maybe not Type 4, but I've no real idea)

[boggyb]

Nah, it should be

  Add to your mana pool for each land card in all graveyards.

On flavor, and situationally quite powerful.

[Killane]

How is that on flavor? Apart from Flashback, Red really doesn;t use the yard as a resource at all. It does hate on nonbasics, which mine essentially does by turning them into symetrical resources.

[serracollector]

Its on par because red had some the first land destruction cards ie stone rain and has continued that trend for twenty years. when the urza saga lands came out i was sure the red one was going to either be tap add red for each land in play or for each land in all graveyards. would have been great with four wastes or strips

[Wagner]

How is that on flavor? Apart from Flashback, Red really doesn;t use the yard as a resource at all. It does hate on nonbasics, which mine essentially does by turning them into symetrical resources.

I'll second this, red never interacts with graveyards, and red pretty much never interacts with lands in that way, that's green territory (see terravore, Molimo, etc.)

I do like the idea of opponent's non-basic. Could reliably do 3-4 mana, but is more of a late game card as opposed to Tolarian and Cradle which can do 4 mana on turn 2.

Also, it wouldn't be an issue in T4, since Type 4 doesn't use lands, or mana

[zeus-online]

.

[zimagic]

: Add  for each creature that attacked this turn.

While no-where near the power level of the other suggestions, this creates very interesting tension for your and opponent's attack phases.
"Opponent has "Red Land" untapped but nothing else, how many creatures do I attack with?" Give a red deck mana or attack?

I like the idea of this kind of mechanic very much.

For the "Land in Graveyards " version, if it's being based on the results of Ston Rain tactics, surely it should be Land in opponent's greveyards? With Fetches in every format, this is likely to be relevant everywhere while not being OP.

[zeus-online]

.

[TheWhiteDragon]

: Add  for each instant or sorcery cast this turn.

I like this.  Bolt/chain lightning/lava spike - tap this for browbeat.  Makes opponents think twice about countering or playing EoT shenanigans with all the instants in red.  How about your opponent storm 10s and in response you dump your hand for 5 bolt effects?  lol.

[Killane]

: Add  for each instant or sorcery cast this turn.

I like this.  Bolt/chain lightning/lava spike - tap this for browbeat.  Makes opponents think twice about countering or playing EoT shenanigans with all the instants in red.  How about your opponent storm 10s and in response you dump your hand for 5 bolt effects?  lol.

Interesting design, but too narrow. Becomes unplayable in aggro pretty quickly. Great BCS, but it's not good enough.

 I still think non-basics controlled by opponent is the cleanest, most on-flavor, and as a bonus, it isn't broken.

[zeus-online]

.

[TheWhiteDragon]

I like it because in most cases it's going to say T: add RRR.  Not too busted, but it can do that early as well as later.  Non-basics an opponent controls can be dead altogether and at best will do T:RRR only after turn 3.  It COULD get bigger later, but it's not even on par with serra sanctum for power.  A delver/burn/storm deck could add RRR or more on turn 2 easy.  Considering it also counts the opponent's spells (counters, storm, eot junk,etc) it seems like it's pretty decent in every situation. In a critter/non-aggro list, you'd probably not run it, but would you run Tolarian in BUG, or Cradle in oath?  It would fit certain decks VERY well, and be unplayable in others....just like every other Tap for X land.

[Wagner]

: Add  for each creature that attacked this turn.

While no-where near the power level of the other suggestions, this creates very interesting tension for your and opponent's attack phases.
"Opponent has "Red Land" untapped but nothing else, how many creatures do I attack with?" Give a red deck mana or attack?

I like the idea of this kind of mechanic very much.

I completely missed that this also worked for your opponent's attacks. Although it's a bit off flavor, it does make the card much more interesting.


I agree that the "damage" taken this turn is waaaaay to powerful. It basically turns all your bolts into Dark Ritual. It could possibly be used in combo decks instead of aggro decks, and that's a big no-no.

[Norm4eva]

It's times like this I wish that Magic had more unique descriptors for spells beyond their types.

Like this land wouldn't have to "oops" its way into non-aggro, non-Red decks if there were an elegant way of saying

    : Add to your mana pool for each point of burn damage dealt to your opponent this turn.

Unfortunately it would necessarily have to be pretty ugly, something along the lines of

    : Add to your mana pool for each point of noncombat damage dealt to your opponent from red sources this turn.

Or

    : Add to your mana pool for each Red noncreature spell you cast this turn.

It's hard to actually reward the "right player", but then again that's part of the fun, right -- scoping out odd interactions. Sigh.

[wiley]

There are burn spells outside the red ones though.  It could be fine to just say;

T; add R to you mana pool. Storm.

[vaughnbros]

I agree that the "damage" taken this turn is waaaaay to powerful. It basically turns all your bolts into Dark Ritual. It could possibly be used in combo decks instead of aggro decks, and that's a big no-no.

I don't know if this is too powerful at all.  Its actually an incredibly awkward effect.  Your lightning bolts don't really help your storm plan at all without the land, and the land does nothing without some sort of damage spell or creature connecting with your opponent.  

If the idea is for the card to actually be competitive I don't think it can be anything less than:
: Add to your mana pool for each point of damage an opponent was dealt this turn.
OR
: Add to your mana pool for each spell cast this turn.

Both require you to have done something else in the specific turn to gain a benefit.  This balances them compared to tolarian, and cradle that have static abilities that just ask about the overall game state.

[xouman]

Well, you can also add  for every sorcery in the grave, or even sorcery + instant, but it would be a bit different. Or  for every other land that already gives  . Or  for each card in opponent's hand (but that's too broken in the first turns). What about

"This Awesome Moutain gives for every point of non-combat damage that target opponent has lost this turn"

so fetchlands and other cards already help, and any lightning bolt transforms into dark ritual?

[serracollector]

I still stick with the idea that it should read "Add R to you mana pool equal to the number of lands in all graveyards." This would allow plays like turn one Waste your land turn two still got two mana. Or you fetch turn one and opponent fetches turn one and turn two you got three mana. Not ridiculously broken but still allows easy ramp with wastes fetches and cards like fulminator mage pillage and avalanche riders.

[Norm4eva]

I still stick with the idea that it should read "Add R to you mana pool equal to the number of lands in all graveyards." This would allow plays like turn one Waste your land turn two still got two mana. Or you fetch turn one and opponent fetches turn one and turn two you got three mana. Not ridiculously broken but still allows easy ramp with wastes fetches and cards like fulminator mage pillage and avalanche riders.

(as if there weren't more broken uses for Hermit Druid, but you know what I mean)

I'd throw my deck in the garbage if it meant tapping for and going to LazyTown on someone with an X spell.