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Author Topic: Stubborn Denial vs Noncreature Spells/Ferocious  (Read 10552 times)
LotusHead
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« on: October 23, 2014, 12:28:03 am »

Stubborn Denial

U

Instant

Counter target noncreature spell unless its controller pays 1.

Ferocious — If you control a creature with power 4 or greater, counter that spell instead.

I cast a game winning non-creature spell CREATURE SPELL, with more mana availiable. My opponent casts Stubborn Denial with a 4 power creature in play, hence spell has Ferocious.  Does my spell resolve? or does it now hard counter ANY SPELL?

« Last Edit: October 23, 2014, 03:53:40 am by LotusHead » Logged

serracollector
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« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2014, 02:13:04 am »

Kind of confused on your wording but when you have Ferocious it changes the counter from a sub par daze into a negate for one mana. So your noncreature spell is completely countered no matter how much extra mana you may have. Hope that explains it.
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LotusHead
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« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2014, 03:51:51 am »

so Stubborn Denial is Negate for 1 if ferocious, not uber counterspell for 1 if ferocious?

Also, (lol), it was an awesome creature spell I cast, (not noncreature spell).  Smile

EDIT: Fixed original post's wording...
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serracollector
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« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2014, 06:30:13 am »

Correct. If you have ferocious it just changes the Unless they pay one mana clause to Counter that spell. It still can only target and or counter NON creature spells.
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Norm4eva
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« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2014, 10:06:19 am »

Since Ferocious checks for truthiness during resolution, the replacement effect doesn't actually kick in until the spell tries to resolve. So when you're first declaring targets/modes/paying for the spell/etc (casting the spell, IOW), Ferocious isn't a factor.

This confused me too -- in part because a lot of spells with replacement effects tend to rehash the entirety of their effect rather than just modify a piece of it. See cards like Cleansing Meditation; it restates the original effect in addition to its new effect instead of simply tacking on an extra effect if you have Threshold.
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