Welder Stax: A Newcomer's Approach

[EnialisLiadon]

I have been playing vintage for a long, long time and I have almost never deviated from playing decks with blue in them. Whether they killed with a Slaver-lock, Darksteel Colossus, Tendrils of Agony, Blightsteel Colossus, Griselbrand, or Laboratory Maniac, I have always enjoyed jamming disruption, a big pile of restricted cards, and 1-2 kill conditions together and calling it a deck. After a decade of Forces, Drains, and Rituals, I decided to start sleeving up some artifacts and put some real effort in gaining a deeper understanding of Workshop prison decks.  I have heard from a reliable source that variety is the spice of life.

I settled on my list because Goblin Welder is my favorite creature ever printed, and I originally wanted to see if Uba Stax still had legs. The Uba Masks ended up doing very little--even against the Gush decks that I thought they would be effective against. I cut them for Null Rods, which soon were cut for Phyrexian Revokers to mitigate Dack Fayden and Time Vault’s effectiveness. I kept the Bazaars, as their obvious synergy with Goblin Welder and Crucible of Worlds is great. I also appreciated the late-game filtering they offer. Maybe it is just my inner blue mage showing, but I like drawing cards.

After a few weeks of testing, tweaking, scouring lists, and reading reports, here is my current list.

Welder Stax
//Creatures--12
4x Goblin Welder
4x Lodestone Golem
2x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Duplicant
1x Sundering Titan

//Lock Pieces--19
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Crucible of Worlds
3x Smokestack
4x Tangle Wire
4x Thorn of Amethyst
1x Trinisphere

//Bazaars--2
2x Bazaar of Baghdad

//Mana--27
1x Black Lotus
1x Mana Crypt
5x Moxes
1x Sol Ring
3x Ancient Tomb
3x Cavern of Souls
4x Mishra’s Workshop
3x Mountain
1x Strip Mine
1x Tolarian Academy
4x Wasteland

//Sideboard--15
1x Duplicant
1x Wurmcoil Engine
4x Grafdigger’s Cage
2x Pithing Needle
3x Ratchet Bomb
2x Tormod’s Crypt
2x Maze of Ith

I feel like I am beating my head against the problem that I am sure all shops players face: there’s just not enough room for all of the cards that you want in the deck.  For example…

-I feel like I should be playing 3-4 Phyrexian Revokers
-I miss those Null Rods that became Revokers
-I am not sure if 4 Thorn (and 0 Sphere of Resistance) is enough.
-No Spheres because I kept getting Sphere’d out of playing my creatures. Legitimate concern or inexperience on my part?
-Should I be playing 4 Smokestacks instead of 3?
-Ancient Tomb needs to be a 4-of, but only 5 lands for Welder feels low if I cut a Mountain or Cavern.
-Karn got cut, which might be incorrect.

Deck lists and concerns regarding them do not exist in a vacuum--I have been playing at Pandemonium after moving to Boston for grad school, which sees a lots of Mentor/Pyromancer decks with Dack Fayden, some bomberman, a few shops players, some Oath players, Doomsday off and on (usually me, haha) and usually at least 1 Dredge at weekly events. As such, I tried to develop a sideboard that could address a diverse field. Maze of Ith is the most recent addition to the sb--as a last-ditch answer to Blightsteel, Trygon, and Griselbrand. Maybe it is just The Fear, but I feel very soft to Oath.

Putting this list together and playing with it has been incredible fun--and it has been nice to dedicate some real time to playing with Workshops, as opposed to just shuffling them up for playtesting with friends. But I wonder if getting cute with Welder and Bazaar is a dangerous cool thing that is just not as good as a stock Martello or Espresso list.

There is a lot here to respond to, so I definitely appreciate any and all feedback!

[nedleeds]

I think one of the things you have to play through is the rising tension between Welder and Chalice 1. The days of Chalice 0 being a default play in sanctioned paper magic are over. Chalice 1 in a world of 4 x preordain blue decks with 13-14 lands is becoming more of a default play than ever. Throw in removal heavily clustered at 1 (stp, bolt), and the threat of delver and your choice of X on chalice (especially in the blind) will often win or lose you the game. Workshop decks suffer from being very reliant on their opening 7 and top 3-4 cards. Welder / Chalice can make these openers even more unwieldy. I get that you play cavern, but you are asking alot from a deck with no cantrips to have the perfect 3 some. Finally the complete and utter misery of a card that is Mental Misstep. If I'm playing shops in a large sanctioned field I am not even playing Sol Ring maindeck. The ubiquity of that brainless counterspell has made playing not blue decks with one drops an almost futile effort. You invest your mana on your turn and a card, they get shocked, it's the worst. It's the most miserable counterspell ever. For that reason I couldn't imagine sleeving up welder in a deck without a bunch of missteps to protect him from both other derpsteps and the associated removal.

[TheWhiteDragon]

Cavern of Souls - dodges chalice @1, dodges misstep, can make your lodestone on turn 2 uncounterable in a pinch.  I run 4x cavern in all my red-shops builds.

[nedleeds]

You are asking a lot to not have conflicting cards in an opener in a deck with very little deck manipulation. I think over a long (8+ round) event this may be even more consistent than just playing a brown workshop deck.

I'm not interested in heading into a 60% blue field, all of which are playing 3+ Missteps to turn that card on. To the point where I'm starting to consider Sol Ring a liability.

[Albarkhane]

I have been playing red-shop for a long time and when i read your list it reminds me of an old list i used (basically the difference was wurmcoil as huge beater). I had some little success with it but i finally find out it to be too much in the 'middle road' : not really aggro, not really control. I decided to follow the control road and here below is a list i used one year ago so it is not uptodate but you may find some ideas.

4 Mishra's Workshop
3 Cavern of Souls
3 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Sol Ring
4 Goblin Welder
4 Lodestone Golem
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Crucible of Worlds
4 Tangle Wire
1 Trinisphere
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Ancient Tomb
3 Mountain
2 Expedition Map
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Sphere of Resistance
2 Staff of Nin
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt (Dredge)
SB: 4 Grafdigger's Cage (Dredge, MUD, Oath)
SB: 1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale (Dredge, Agro decks)
SB: 3 Razormane Masticore / Triskelion (MUD, Legacy like : RUG, BUG, UR, ...)
SB: 2 Witchbane Orb (Oath)
SB: 2 Phyrexian Revoker (Dack, shaman, etc. but actually floating slots)

Basically it is an old STAX with a few changes. My plan is to be the control deck obviously.
- a very low mana curve for reducing mulligan and get more stability. So welder is less amazing but it easier to cast stuff fairly if he can"t stick to the field.
- ratched bomb instead of smokestack : i want to be able to choose what is destroyed and do it quickly.
- bridge MD are just amazing (in the european meta), near auto-win against MUD and Dredge. a little bit more tricky when oponent plays mana denial.
- staff : shop deck with draw (and filtering with bazaar) is just adictive ! the ping is worth the mana cost (compared to portal). no tension with bridges : if i can play or weld staff i can deal with 2 cards a turn.
- less sphere than usual but there are not that many combo/broken decks in european meta.
- some tension between golem/bridge but not that often if you play smart. A few time you will have an expensive sphere (that will attack when the board is cleared).
- i used to play maze too but i prefer tabernacle because of pyromancer.
- with lots of bolts/decay in oponents decks, barbarian + staff are an alternative kill.

I am not yet satisfied of all slots but in an MUD/Dredge/Legacy-like meta this deck works quite well.
My 10 cents

Now, i would do +1 cavern / -1 mountain and the 2 slots for staff of Nim are floating i guess.

The expedition map is wonderful in this particular list but maybe i would not use it in a list like yours (it puts you off-tempo, my list is much slower so it is OK in it).

I do not think Mental Misstep is a problem for any shop deck. Most of the time they are sided out for artifact hate and if they keep it, it is even better since it means less artifact hate against me. I agree that mental misstep on welder is no good news but actually they could have done far worse that turn. I am more concerned with bolt, sword or decay on welder.

[EnialisLiadon]

I did change my lands around:  -2 Mountain, +1 Ancient Tomb, +1 Cavern of Souls. And creatures: -1 Goblin Welder, +1 Phyrexian Revoker. I had too many hands that could only produce a single mana on turn 1. I also figured that if Welder is the only red requirement then there's no reason not to run 4 Caverns. Speaking of, I dropped a Welder as drawing multiples (especially in the opening hand) was no good--and the additional Revoker is a great answer to Dack Fayden or just being a Stone Rain for an opponent's Mox.

I do think getting Welder online is worth the effort.

Ratchet Bomb instead of Smokestack is interesting to me. I do like that you can pinpoint it to blow up an Oath or something, but I just love grinding opponents away into nothing. Is that just an unnecessary cool thing? I also like Smokestack with Ensnaring Bridge, as you can sacrifice it when you're in control and ready to start swinging. But I suppose Welder can serve that purpose as well. I do like Ensnaring Bridge, though.

[Albarkhane]

Well, mana base for red shop is always a bit difficult, you need enough red and enough explosive opening hands (lots of mana). I chose to have a very low curve (for a shop deck), that means nearly all my spells are cc3 or less. It really helped reducing mulligan due to low mana opening hands. There may be other solutions but this one seems to be working quite well.

I would keep the 4 welders (2 in opening hands are not that bad since they do not stay on the field very long usually and it allows some nice tricks too and it is one key card of the deck).

If i could i would enter as much revoker as possible but i would remove the lone titan that is a bit random IMHO.

I first added ratched bomb to deal quickly with dark confidant but nowadays they are very useful to deal with tokens and flipped delver and most fish creatures. The only tension is to set it at 1 with welder on the field. By the way, it can be made recursive with welder and i wiped the oponent field clean lots of time but it is a bit overkill most of the time.

Bridge is just amazing, it is nearly autowin against Dredge and MUD and gives the needed time to setup your field in other matchups. It made me win lots of games by its own.

[TheWhiteDragon]

I did change my lands around:  -2 Mountain, +1 Ancient Tomb, +1 Cavern of Souls. And creatures: -1 Goblin Welder, +1 Phyrexian Revoker. I had too many hands that could only produce a single mana on turn 1. I also figured that if Welder is the only red requirement then there's no reason not to run 4 Caverns. Speaking of, I dropped a Welder as drawing multiples (especially in the opening hand) was no good--and the additional Revoker is a great answer to Dack Fayden or just being a Stone Rain for an opponent's Mox.

I think you miss a couple points about cavern.  In a mostly colorless deck, Cavern is perfect.  It can be tough in colored-spell-running decks, especially if you aren't full on tribal, but in colorless builds, it is as useful for mana to cast everything.  The main thing is you want 4 because you WANT to cast welder as reliably as possible, and you WANT chalice @1 - as much or more as you do chalice @0.  Cavern pushes welder through chalice. Chalice@1 stops those bolts and plows from killing your golem or your revoker (allowing Dack back online).  It also stops all the ancestral/preordain/snare/etc nonsense that lets blue dig for answers and mess up your 2-drops.  Chalice@1 is critical.

Lastly, you are citing blue decks as a reason for revoker and such...welder is that much better vs blue.  Cavern is that much better vs blue.  Remember Cavern can name golem or horror in a pinch, especially your second one to hit play.  Sometimes my first cavern names golem, just because.  Turn one on the draw - shop, mox, chalice@1, thorn/sphere...turn two cavern on golem, lodestone, watch you grimace with that FoW stuck in your hand.

[GNU]

If a player keeps in mental misstep to answer your 3-4 Welders & Sol Ring, then that is fine. As that's more cards they can draw that don't do anything against a Stax, lodestone, crucible, SoR or beater.

I would consider ditching the 2nd bazaar for a Ex.Map. Yes map is slow, but Bazaar takes a land drop regardless and the extra flexibility to be able to grab a strip mine/buried ruin/academy could really be worth it. But needs to be weighed with how often chalice at one is going to be relevant.

I don't like that you play 2 different high end beaters, which neither deal with a resolved planeswalker which could steal or bounce it. For this I really like Karn. It drops to the board to animate a beater that turn to usually kill a planeswalker or to finish an opponent off in no time at all, whilst he is munching on moxes, clearing redundant COTV and when teamed up with a welder he destroys the shops matchup. The thing I love about shops is the consistency, you play so many 4 of's to rely on a strategy, so why would you then drop in two one of's? I get that drawing a second copy is bad, but I think that variance is worth it personally.

I haven't tested cavern, but instead play the old Barbarian ring split with mountain 3/3. This is because I play ensnaring bridge and use it as a kill condition with CoW in a few match ups like shops/dredge and even blue mages who have been trapped under spheres and a stax. Not to mention freeing up your welders from pesty revokers as they can't name lands. But can def see the advantages of casting through COTV and counters.

I really like null rod due to the math, it shuts off more of your opponents cards than your own in the matchups you want it. I play it out of the board personally.

I also dropped the revokers from my board for pithing needles, which does expose me to mental missteps. However, I got sick of them being bolted, swords, etc. Being able to stop your opponents waste lock has saved me a few times or stopping them from beating down with man lands or shutting off a turn 1 LoA.

[shrewarmies]

There is a welder stax variant being played in our Melbourne Vintage League Top 4 which can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTqxE4aLLVI&list=PLCE-IeLtjSojEGSc2J-Pt1iPE5aeBvcVo