TheManaDrain.com
April 09, 2020, 05:13:33 am *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: [BFZ] New Duals  (Read 2948 times)
fsecco
Basic User
**
Posts: 560



View Profile Email
« on: August 29, 2015, 10:55:29 pm »

So, this is what we got. I don't think they're good enough for Vintage, though...



Ex.:

sunken Hollow
Land - Island Swamp
Sunken Hollow enters the battlefield tapped unless you control two or more basic lands.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2015, 11:05:04 pm by fsecco » Logged
TheWhiteDragon
Basic User
**
Posts: 1644


ericdm69@hotmail.com MrMiller2033 ericdm696969
View Profile WWW
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2015, 12:44:41 am »

I don't think they're good enough for any eternal format.  Shocklands are superior.  These will almost always enter tapped.  With shocks, at least you have the option of making them untap for -2.  Counting manlands, scrylands, etc., I can't think of any time you'd need these even going up to 4 shocklands (and 4 real duals in vintage before shock lands even).
Logged

"I know to whom I owe the most loyalty, and I see him in the mirror every day." - Starke of Rath
gkraigher
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 705


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2015, 02:12:20 am »

These lands suck.  

What a major disappointment.  

I heard Rosewater say there were going to be new lands, then got excited...but these are just plain awful.  I doubt they would be playable if the caveat was you needed to have only 1 basic land in play beforehand.   But you need to have 2 basics in play before this card is better than a gate.  Yuck.  Disgusting.  

Moreover, the printing of this cycle makes me realize that they will never print Legenday Dual Lands.  Wizards has been doing a lot of things right recently.  Impressively right for that matter.  These lands are step backwards...Homelands backwards. 
« Last Edit: August 30, 2015, 02:28:09 am by gkraigher » Logged
NosferatuStuff
Basic User
**
Posts: 39


View Profile Email
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2015, 05:27:38 am »

I don't know.  I think they are a step in the right direction.  Maybe they finally realize that duals need basic land types if they are to be of any lasting value at all.  If they had just put the land types on the 'comes into play tapped unless it's one of your first 3 lands' from scars of mirrodin they would have gone a long way towards easing the need for the original, fetch-able dual lands in almost every format that uses shock lands.  If we just see more cycles with land types eventually one of them will be playable in vintage.

I can foresee a future where you don't want to play with 2 underground sea, you want only 1(for the mana flexibility) and you want a island/swamp version of the Theros scry lands that, depending on the situation, you could fetch but comes into play tapped and gives you the scry.  Could make for awesome lines of play in vintage.  I never understood wizards aversion to making lands with basic types.  I mean very slight rules baggage for new players but such awesome upside.  If they had made the last 5 dual lands with fetch-able basic types we would have a much more fun and varied vintage environment.  I welcome any basic land type duals if just for precedence sake. 
Logged
Prospector
Basic User
**
Posts: 24


View Profile Email
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2015, 05:46:02 am »

I'm happy to see another dual that can be fetched up but I can only really see myself playing this in casual decks where I don't have the real duals/shocks.  I've played a lot with farseek and there is no downside searching one of these up with it.  But this is not something I see myself doing in eternal formats.
Logged
Chubby Rain
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 742



View Profile Email
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2015, 11:57:59 am »

These lands are fine for standard, in which Fetches are legal and most of the lands come into play tapped anyway. They are really bad in eternal formats as you generally need your lands to come into play untapped early in the the game (i.e. the Seachrome Coast cycle of lands in Modern).
Logged

"Why are we making bad decks? I mean, honestly, what is our reason for doing this?"

"Is this a Vintage deck or a Cube deck?" "Is it sad that you have to ask?"

"Is that a draft deck?" "Why do people keep asking that?"

Random conversations...
TheWhiteDragon
Basic User
**
Posts: 1644


ericdm69@hotmail.com MrMiller2033 ericdm696969
View Profile WWW
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2015, 01:22:23 pm »

Basic land types on future "duals" is a must, unless the effect is stupid powerful like "when this enters play, sleight of hand".

I just miss the days when flooded strand could grab island fish jasconious Sad
Logged

"I know to whom I owe the most loyalty, and I see him in the mirror every day." - Starke of Rath
nedleeds
Tournament Organizers
Basic User
**
Posts: 399


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2015, 10:52:50 am »

These are absolutely for the EDH crowd who wince at paying $300 for a white bordered Underground Sea. They are terrible in every other format.
Logged
vaughnbros
Basic User
**
Posts: 1574


View Profile Email
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2015, 12:18:21 pm »

I just miss the days when flooded strand could grab island fish jasconious Sad

Hate to break it to you but this was never a thing
Logged
rikter
Basic User
**
Posts: 139


View Profile Email
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2015, 12:55:43 pm »

I don't see what all the hate is about. In sideboard games you can board in your second basic land, boom, problem solved.
Logged
Aaron Patten
Basic User
**
Posts: 132


Mox Dragon of the Lotus


View Profile Email
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2015, 01:14:00 pm »

If they keep printing conditional duals with basic land types like these then it could eventually be possible to circumnavigate the drawbacks for them.  If they printed a Seachrome Coast with land types Island Plains then fetches could grab that one first.  Then if they then printed a Glacial Fortress with basic land types Island Plains then you could grab that one second and there would never be any need for shocks or original duals Razz
I think these duals in standard is the reason they printed Evolving Wilds so much recently.  They want every standard player to play 4 of it with these new duals.  
I really like that they can be fetched.  I would love to see even more options with my fetch lands.  
« Last Edit: August 31, 2015, 06:34:04 pm by Aaron Patten » Logged

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqvKjsIxT_8

University is just another one of those pyramid schemes like chain letters, the Freemason Society, Scientology, and... hmm... what's that really famous one? Oh yeah, Capitalism.
TheWhiteDragon
Basic User
**
Posts: 1644


ericdm69@hotmail.com MrMiller2033 ericdm696969
View Profile WWW
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2015, 06:13:28 pm »

I just miss the days when flooded strand could grab island fish jasconious Sad

Hate to break it to you but this was never a thing

Wasn't it for like 12 hrs before WotC caught on and erratad fish?
Logged

"I know to whom I owe the most loyalty, and I see him in the mirror every day." - Starke of Rath
bactgudz
Basic User
**
Posts: 355



View Profile
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2015, 06:24:18 pm »

I don't think this is a sign of a change signalling more basic land type duals.  Maro himself said in the announcement video that they were special because of this.  I think it is just due to fetches being in the current standard (and possibly post-khans block rotation standard).
Logged
Aaron Patten
Basic User
**
Posts: 132


Mox Dragon of the Lotus


View Profile Email
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2015, 06:32:44 pm »

But they will only be in standard together for a few days though.  Zendikar fetches are not standard legal.

Edit: Disregard the above.  I thought khans and fate cycled out with bfz release.  o.O
« Last Edit: August 31, 2015, 06:43:17 pm by Aaron Patten » Logged

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqvKjsIxT_8

University is just another one of those pyramid schemes like chain letters, the Freemason Society, Scientology, and... hmm... what's that really famous one? Oh yeah, Capitalism.
Protoaddict
Basic User
**
Posts: 664



View Profile WWW
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2015, 10:11:18 am »

Meh, these were never for eternal formats and you all know it. They will be perfectly amazing staples in 2 color EDH decks for certain (after your first and only true dual), playable in some but not all Modern decks over shocks, and likely super important in standard with Khans Fetch lands.

The mana base in vintage at this point just is what it is. Your not going to get better that duals, the best you can hope for is some strategy that works on a different level than casting spells that uses a totally different mana base like workshops or Dredge.
Logged

This is my podcast:

Http://www.fantasticneighborhood.com
Comedy gaming podcast. Listening to it makes you cool.
inkmothnexus
Basic User
**
Posts: 33


Dredge Guy


View Profile Email
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2015, 03:46:05 pm »


I think these duals in standard is the reason they printed Evolving Wilds so much recently.  They want every standard player to play 4 of it with these new duals.  


Evolving wild only finds basics.
Logged

Sullivan Brophy

NYSE III champion, vintage champs 2015 top 4.
psly4mne
Basic User
**
Posts: 33


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2015, 03:54:51 pm »


I think these duals in standard is the reason they printed Evolving Wilds so much recently.  They want every standard player to play 4 of it with these new duals.  


Evolving wild only finds basics.
Evolving Wilds let you fix your mana while making it more likely that you have 2 basics to play these untapped. That interaction is probably good enough to help support 3 color decks in standard.
Logged
TheWhiteDragon
Basic User
**
Posts: 1644


ericdm69@hotmail.com MrMiller2033 ericdm696969
View Profile WWW
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2015, 10:03:40 pm »

These new duals are nothing to be excited about, but I do like the enemy color manlands!
Logged

"I know to whom I owe the most loyalty, and I see him in the mirror every day." - Starke of Rath
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.07 seconds with 21 queries.