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Author Topic: [C15] Scourge of Nel Toth  (Read 1716 times)
gkraigher
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« on: November 04, 2015, 11:39:37 am »




A castable creature from the yard that also sacrifices creatures.

Not sure if it's good, but it could lead towards new builds with Dredge.  I do expect to see this played in Legacy Dredge, don't know if it's good enough for Vintage. 
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MaximumCDawg
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« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2015, 11:57:40 am »

This is quite good, actually.  BB for a 6/6 is Vintage-relevant, and the sacrifice doesn't have to be non-token creatures.  Funny anti-Oath tech?
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ben_berry
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« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2015, 02:20:23 pm »

How does this help against oath. You go from two to one creatures in play.
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vaughnbros
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« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2015, 02:29:33 pm »

Very similar to Skaab Ruinator in effect.  The casting cost is just different.
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Protoaddict
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« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2015, 04:11:41 pm »

If i am paying any mana in dredge, I don't think i want it to be BB for a 6/6 when i can cast 1B for animate dead on my grizzlebrand or whatever.
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Wagner
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« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2015, 03:50:10 am »

If i am paying any mana in dredge, I don't think i want it to be BB for a 6/6 when i can cast 1B for animate dead on my grizzlebrand or whatever.

But Animate Dead would need to be in your hand, not in the graveyard, that's precisely the interest.
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wiley
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« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2015, 06:39:03 am »

This plus zombie infestation seems ok.  And since the deck is base black it can handle the other, better, token generators.  Doubt it is tier 1, but it might be a good deck.
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MaximumCDawg
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« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2015, 11:03:10 am »

Yeah, I don't think this is as bad as Ruinator (who, by the way, is awesome in GU Madness).  He's got a few things going for him:

1) In the lategame he's just a regular ol' 6 mana 6/6 dragon.  Ruinator can never be cast normally.
2) He plays really nicely with token generation effects like Zombie Infestation, Necromancer's Stockpile, Skirk Ridge Exhumer etc.
3) He's in a better color for tribal interactions
4) It's more synergeistic for most decks to have creatures on board than in the graveyard.  That is to say, we're trying to field creatures in an aggro deck anyway, and they affect the game immediately.  Dumping dudes into your yard is not in and of itself affecting the game.
5) It's more recursive.  Exiling cards from your yard is a difficult resource to loop (Process aside).  From play, though?  Heck, if you get two Gravecrawlers and this guy going, you're potentially able to buy him back for 4 mana and STILL recast your Crawlers as well.

I wouldn't be surprised if this creature pops up in Legacy.
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Protoaddict
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« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2015, 11:28:50 am »

Legacy maybe, but in vintage? 6/6 is not big enough to tangle with Oath flyers and dies to many of shops higher end stuff. Also he is cast, so is still counter-able if coming from the yard. What is the chain of events you want to hit to make this guy worth it, because last I checked most of the cards people are listing are not vintage playable at all, let alone as an enabler.

I mean i know they are not directly comparable but Tomb Stalker feels similar to me and that sees no play. Tasigur sees some fringe play but is much better as a big cheatable creature that relies on the yard. All the dredge stuff is free and not casted so I am not sure how making you need black mana helps.
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MaximumCDawg
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« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2015, 11:59:30 am »

I'm not hopeful, but like I said, BB for a 6/6 flyer would be played, and his extra condition just requires you to have dudes, which is something you want to do anyway.  Heck, let's say you stick him as a one-of in a Grixis deck with Young Pyromancer tokens to feed on as a trump to Dragonlord Ojutai?  I dunno.
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Protoaddict
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« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2015, 01:35:42 pm »

I am not sure that a 6/6 flyer for BB would even see play in modern day vintage anymore. Creatures just have to do so much more than be big to be even considered at this point, which is why Goyf is rarely seen anymore. This card has no hate on it, no sphere, no inherent broken recursion ala bloodghast, and 2 mana is actually costly when you can get a 3/2 flyer for U that can be pitched.

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