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Author Topic: [OGW] Wastes: Barry's Land is REAL?  (Read 21623 times)
fsecco
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« on: November 17, 2015, 11:43:57 pm »



I just can't believe it yet. OMG. It's fake, right?
« Last Edit: November 17, 2015, 11:49:55 pm by fsecco » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2015, 11:57:56 pm »

Not calling fake because it makes sense in context, but all the full art lands till this point had a basic land type printed to the right of the symbol and this has none. Mechanically that sorta makes sense but at the same time it is a property all basic lands have had till this point.

There is also this kozelik and non basic that "surfaced" as well:



If that Koz is real though...
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fsecco
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« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2015, 12:08:03 am »

Yeah, yeah, I've seen those, but I figure their existence is tied to Wastes.

I know about the lack of subtype, but I remember Maro (or was it Aaron?) saying that they finally figured out how to print Barry's Land without hurting the 5-color pie. I guess taking out the subtype is the loophole. Wink

EDIT: if the Kozilek is real he will be a second Griselbrand. Draws cards AND protects himself? It's insane. A rules question: if you Oath if into play with 3 cards in hand, your opponent tries to kill it in response to the draw trigger and you discard a card to counter it, do you draw 4 or 5 cards?
« Last Edit: November 18, 2015, 12:11:03 am by fsecco » Logged
vaughnbros
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« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2015, 12:15:51 am »

EDIT: if the Kozilek is real he will be a second Griselbrand. Draws cards AND protects himself? It's insane. A rules question: if you Oath if into play with 3 cards in hand, your opponent tries to kill it in response to the draw trigger and you discard a card to counter it, do you draw 4 or 5 cards?

When you cast not when it comes into play.
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fsecco
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« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2015, 12:23:05 am »

EDIT: if the Kozilek is real he will be a second Griselbrand. Draws cards AND protects himself? It's insane. A rules question: if you Oath if into play with 3 cards in hand, your opponent tries to kill it in response to the draw trigger and you discard a card to counter it, do you draw 4 or 5 cards?

When you cast not when it comes into play.
Ah, damn you eldrazi! Anyway, the question remains, in a sense... but who would EVER cast this guy, EVER? Unless you're playing Omniscience. But if you are, then there are better things to do. Ah, well, the old eldrazi are probably better.

But let's not diverge from the main point: BARRY'S LAND, MAN!
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Chubby Rain
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« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2015, 12:26:57 am »

EDIT: if the Kozilek is real he will be a second Griselbrand. Draws cards AND protects himself? It's insane. A rules question: if you Oath if into play with 3 cards in hand, your opponent tries to kill it in response to the draw trigger and you discard a card to counter it, do you draw 4 or 5 cards?

When you cast not when it comes into play.

Like every other Eldrazi...

They do look real though. It's basically the same thing as the Snow-cards but I think they are trying to emphasize Eldrazi as distinct from the other colors. It also would fit with the large number of nonbasic, colorless lands they printed in the previous set. This isn't necessarily great for Vintage as you'd need a powerful incentive to play Waste over the spell lands in shops (wasteland, factory, etc) and the ramp lands (tomb, shops). Just like Devoid was a complete miss for Vintage (and most other formats), I think this will produce flavorful fun cards that work well within the set but not well outside of it.
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vaughnbros
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« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2015, 12:28:07 am »

But let's not diverge from the main point: BARRY'S LAND, MAN!

Yes sadly it looks like its going to be wasted on some terribly inefficient eldrazi cards.
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desolutionist
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« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2015, 01:24:52 am »

This would impact Domain effects, right?

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psly4mne
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« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2015, 01:39:22 am »

This would impact Domain effects, right?
If this is real, it does not have a basic land type, so no.
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desolutionist
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« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2015, 01:55:54 am »

It says basic land right on the card...?
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Ulthrion
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« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2015, 03:10:36 am »

It says basic land right on the card...?

All the domain cards care for card types (Forest, Plains, Mountain, Swamp, Island).
This would not affect domain, as it does not introduce a new type of basic lands. If it would, then all the snow-covered versions of the basic lands would also have impacted domain.

Other than that, I like how they made colorless-specific a 'color'. I don't expect it will impact Vintage because you can't use workshop mana for these spells (unless they are also artifacts obviously), and that is just too much power to leave behind. Although it is far too early to be really sure about this.

For commander though, we get a colorless basic land of which you can put in multiples. Although I think that currently there are enough colorless lands, this does make it more accessible. Also opens up the possibility of a colorless commander product in the future.

I assume this is real, mainly because this is the sollution I thought of myself when they said that they found a way to make a colorless basic land. It just seems to be the most elegant/simpel way to do this. Although I don't get why they didn't use  {1} instead of <> for mana production (as that is essentially the same). Maybe for thematic reasons, or maybe I'm forgetting something.
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gkraigher
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« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2015, 05:36:22 am »

The above post is correct.  The land is basic with no subtype.  5 basic land subtypes remain.  

That also means that's cards like birds of paradise, city of brass, and lotus cobra cannot produce this weird mana.  Not even prismatic omen will be able to get around this.  

The way these are worded, it actually is a great way to do a "Barry's land" because it affects so few cards.  Notable exceptions are blood moon, back to basics, and thawing glaciers.  

It's a great way to breach the color pool without doing any harm.  I was shocked at first but I've already come around to accept it.  I'm hoping they even push it.  the art on Kozilek is stunning and the flavor text is almost too good to be fake.  Here's to hoping Emrakul follows suit. 
« Last Edit: November 18, 2015, 01:54:16 pm by gkraigher » Logged
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« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2015, 05:54:25 am »

The way these are worded, it actually is s great way to do a "Barry's land" because it affects so few cards.  Notable exceptions are blood moon, back to basics, and thawing glaciers.  

How are these notable exceptions?
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gkraigher
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« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2015, 06:23:43 am »

Add veteran explorers to the notable exceptions list.  

They are notable because those are vintage playable cards.  

The point is there are not many interactions with other cards in the game.  Thawing glaciers plus amulet of vigor is a thing, or at least it could be a thing. 
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fsecco
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« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2015, 08:05:26 am »

I'm also hoping they push it. I mean, would even an instant "<>, draw 3 cards" be playable?
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matori
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« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2015, 08:23:13 am »

I'm also hoping they push it. I mean, would even an instant "<>, draw 3 cards" be playable?
"any mana, draw 3 cards" is playable Smile
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« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2015, 08:47:51 am »

I think arguably a waste mana only ancestral is playable only if this set provides enough other cards to make it worth your time.

Keep in mind these lands are not fetchable with the current fetch lands so you would actually have to play a bunch of them to make sure you got this type of mana, which is not vintage ok. There are not waste mana duals either and I doubt they would make them. And none of these cards are blue so pitching for force.

Think about all they would have to print in this one set to make a 6th color playable? A colorless force, a colorless timewalk and recall, A playable colorless mana base? And then what is the advantage of playing this over the existing colors, all other things equal? Access to more efficient sol ring mana and immunity to pyroblast?

I would not expect much from these considering 75% of the set will be for draft anyway, if anything I suspect 1-2 of them sneak into the format in decks that cheat things into play like dredge or Oath, and thats about it. Kozilek looks to make a really solid reanimator target in legacy maybe?
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« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2015, 09:06:33 am »

Yeah, yeah, I've seen those, but I figure their existence is tied to Wastes.

I know about the lack of subtype, but I remember Maro (or was it Aaron?) saying that they finally figured out how to print Barry's Land without hurting the 5-color pie. I guess taking out the subtype is the loophole. Wink

EDIT: if the Kozilek is real he will be a second Griselbrand. Draws cards AND protects himself? It's insane. A rules question: if you Oath if into play with 3 cards in hand, your opponent tries to kill it in response to the draw trigger and you discard a card to counter it, do you draw 4 or 5 cards?

Affects like this typically check on resolution so you would draw 5 in your scenario.
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« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2015, 10:08:45 am »

If this takes off, could be a way to backdoor in some new duals.  Obviously not nearly as versatile or powerful as the originals, but a step in that direction.
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Khahan
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« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2015, 10:12:38 am »

Before I get too excited about the possibilities this could lead to I'd like to know if this is a set mechanic or something new that will endure beyond this set/block.
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vaughnbros
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« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2015, 10:25:36 am »

I think this set will be completely useless to Vintage unless all previous colorless lands are pseudo errated to produce waste mana.  The former being much more likely.
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gkraigher
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« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2015, 11:02:05 am »

I'm also hoping they push it. I mean, would even an instant "<>, draw 3 cards" be playable?

This card would kill legacy, modern, and standard.  Not going to happen.  It would have to cost 5 mana like Jace's Ingenuity or be a 4 mana sorcery.  Neither of which is likely. 

Quote
I think this set will be completely useless to Vintage unless all previous colorless lands are pseudo errated to produce waste mana.  The former being much more likely.

this is most likely going to be the case.  At least they are returning to Innistrad next block.  Innistrad had a ton of playable eternal cards. 

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« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2015, 11:11:24 am »

Before I get too excited about the possibilities this could lead to I'd like to know if this is a set mechanic or something new that will endure beyond this set/block.

I think for now you can expect this to be limited to this set for a few blocks until the story comes back around to resolve the Eldrazi in a big, time-spirally way. Probabaly the same with Phyrexian mana, likely won't see that again until that point since they really like to tie mechanics to blocks.
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vaughnbros
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« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2015, 11:20:29 am »

Before I get too excited about the possibilities this could lead to I'd like to know if this is a set mechanic or something new that will endure beyond this set/block.

I think for now you can expect this to be limited to this set for a few blocks until the story comes back around to resolve the Eldrazi in a big, time-spirally way. Probabaly the same with Phyrexian mana, likely won't see that again until that point since they really like to tie mechanics to blocks.

Considering what a disaster phyrexian mana was I wouldn't expect that to come back even when they do return to mirrodin.  I hope this is the last Eldrazi set, we've already had 2 awful ones and are primed for a third...
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« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2015, 11:41:51 am »

LOVE IT...except that I can't Waste your Wastes, boooo bad name choice.
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vaughnbros
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« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2015, 11:44:43 am »

LOVE IT...except that I can't Waste your Wastes, boooo bad name choice.

It's already been wasted how would you waste it again?
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fsecco
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« Reply #26 on: November 18, 2015, 11:50:13 am »

I'm also hoping they push it. I mean, would even an instant "<>, draw 3 cards" be playable?
This card would kill legacy, modern, and standard.  Not going to happen.  It would have to cost 5 mana like Jace's Ingenuity or be a 4 mana sorcery.  Neither of which is likely. 
Would it? I mean, it would be bad for standard, but would you really play a number of Wastes just to play this? Or play something like Evolving Wilds is ok? But anyway, I know this card isn't going to happen, but what I meant is that yes, they can use this to push a few powerful cards.

I don't think the right comparison is phyrexian mana, but Snow-Covered Lands. We had effects that you had to pay snow-covered for it to work. I don't think it goes any further than that. They aren't gonna errata old cards to produce this new mana, nor they're adding this to the game permanently. This lands are lands dominated by Eldrazi, so it doesn't make a lot of sense for it to be in other blocks.
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Khahan
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« Reply #27 on: November 18, 2015, 11:50:43 am »

LOVE IT...except that I can't Waste your Wastes, boooo bad name choice.

I can strip your waist though...oh waste. Sorry.
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« Reply #28 on: November 18, 2015, 12:12:06 pm »

It's already wasted tho - that's why you can't waste it...
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portland
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« Reply #29 on: November 18, 2015, 01:26:21 pm »

Will be interesting to see if it's legit. Barry's land has been deferred a lot.
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