TheManaDrain.com
November 20, 2019, 11:19:22 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: [SOI] Epiphany at the Drownyard  (Read 3961 times)
Naixin
Basic User
**
Posts: 134


View Profile Email
« on: March 16, 2016, 09:08:50 am »



Excited for this. Sort of like a reverse FoF. Can see potential with drain. Thoughts?
Logged
gkraigher
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 705


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2016, 09:21:29 am »

for 4 mana, the same as fact or fiction, they will stick you with 1 card.  With fact or fiction you get to choose what you need more and allow your opponent to make a misplay.  Here your opponent has a lot more control over the situation than you do.  I don't like it.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2016, 01:28:02 pm by gkraigher » Logged
enderfall
Basic User
**
Posts: 271


View Profile Email
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2016, 09:55:29 am »

Steam Augury is better in every way, other than requiring a red mana. FoF is still better. The off chances that you can cast this for 5 or more mana don't offset the fact that for 4 or less we already have far better options.
Logged
MaximumCDawg
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 2172


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2016, 10:01:40 am »

I don't know how bad this is, really.  You guys are both assuming that you want exactly 1 card in your top X, and would not just take volume over that one card.  That's like assuming that Fact or Fiction is really just "pay 4 draw 1" when that's not the case at all.  It's a more flexible Fact or Fiction that misses one card at the X = 3 slot compared to its predecessor.  Let's look at this guy at each casting cost.

X = 0
You mill a card.

X = 1
You get the best of the top 2 cards, other one in the yard.

X = 2
You get the best of the top 3 cards OR you get 2 cards, the others in the yard.

X = 3+
You get the best of the top X cards or you get 2+ cards, others in yard.

...and we're doing this at instant speed.  I don't think you can disregard it at all; it's absolutely worth investigating.  

Steam Augury is better in every way, other than requiring a red mana. FoF is still better. The off chances that you can cast this for 5 or more mana don't offset the fact that for 4 or less we already have far better options.

Steam Augury is a bucket of poop because the OPPONENT chooses which pile you get.  Meaning, you can never use Steam to get exactly the card you need.  With this and Fact, you ultimately choose which pile you need so if you really need a particular card, it's yours.

FoF is better at U3, but that's it.  You can't go Land, Mox, Go and hold up countermagic, then end of turn Epiphany for the best of the top 2 to find gas, for example.  Flexibility and scalability are important.
Logged
fsecco
Basic User
**
Posts: 560



View Profile Email
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2016, 10:04:06 am »

You're reading it wrong man. Your opponent chooses which pile goes to your hand.

So:
X = 1
You get the best of the top 2 cards, other one in the yard.


Is actually you get the worst of top 2.
Logged
MaximumCDawg
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 2172


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2016, 10:05:07 am »

You're reading it wrong man. Your opponent chooses which pile goes to your hand.

So:
X = 1
You get the best of the top 2 cards, other one in the yard.


Is actually you get the worst of top 2.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH SNAP

You're totally right.

I withdraw all of my kind words for this card.

As with Steam Augury, so with this card.  That giant circular thing that Jace is looking at?  It's a toilet.  And it's flushing.  The poop.
Logged
xouman
Basic User
**
Posts: 1082


View Profile Email
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2016, 10:55:34 am »

I thought it was like fact, that I was choosing, and it had some merit (while being usually worse than FoF).

If opponent chooses, is plain bad. Close thread :p
Logged
Protoaddict
Basic User
**
Posts: 664



View Profile WWW
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2016, 12:05:47 pm »

What sucks so badly about this card is that it is in a madness set and does not trigger madness.
Logged

This is my podcast:

Http://www.fantasticneighborhood.com
Comedy gaming podcast. Listening to it makes you cool.
fsecco
Basic User
**
Posts: 560



View Profile Email
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2016, 12:47:34 pm »

Would even printing this as a FoF be too powerful? Maybe they didn't want that effect in Modern...
Logged
Protoaddict
Basic User
**
Posts: 664



View Profile WWW
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2016, 04:01:37 pm »

As a scaleable FoF it may actually be too good in many formats, because then it is 1 mana cantrip, 2 mana get the best card and put something in the yard for value, etc.
Logged

This is my podcast:

Http://www.fantasticneighborhood.com
Comedy gaming podcast. Listening to it makes you cool.
MirariKnight
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 428

Lotus, YawgWill, Lotus, Go

xHollyw0odx
View Profile Email
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2016, 07:14:45 pm »

Tested this a little today after it was spoiled, I'd suggest giving it a try before naysaying it. Yes, the Steam Augury-ness is kinda poop, but the scalability makes it's really nice. I'm not sure what kind of home it would have, since it's hard to make a deck around it. But the fact that you can cast it for decent value at 3 mana on turn 1-2 and later on cast it for a billion mana, especially with a drain, was way better than expected. Not sure if it'll see a ton of play I think it's worth a shot. Initial thoughts are that it's best in a deck with a minimal variance between card power level -think closer to Mentor/Pyro style lists with all the 4 ofs, not a Yawg will deck with a bunch of restricted stuff they can just deny you. In the decks that do just want massive amounts of cards, it might work. 
Logged
fsecco
Basic User
**
Posts: 560



View Profile Email
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2016, 07:17:33 pm »

For 3 mana, instant speed, aren't you just better running the not-so-played-right-now Thirst for Knowledge?

And if you want to scale is seems to me it gets even worse. I mean, would you play this for 50 with infinite mana in Bomberman? I guess that's the only deck I could see using this, even then...
Logged
MirariKnight
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 428

Lotus, YawgWill, Lotus, Go

xHollyw0odx
View Profile Email
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2016, 11:12:55 pm »

For 3 mana, instant speed, aren't you just better running the not-so-played-right-now Thirst for Knowledge?

And if you want to scale is seems to me it gets even worse. I mean, would you play this for 50 with infinite mana in Bomberman? I guess that's the only deck I could see using this, even then...

We actually tried it in a deck where we 1 for 1 replaced Thirst with it, and it performed fairly well. If you can't understand how casting this thing for 7,8,9 etc. cards is good, then I guess we won't agree. But it happened fairly regularly in a deck with Academy, Drains, etc. Not saying it's amazing, but give it a shot before dismissing it.
Logged
fsecco
Basic User
**
Posts: 560



View Profile Email
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2016, 12:02:28 am »

I really think that if I'm spending 8 mana on this there should probably be better things for me to do, no? I dunno, Consecrated Sphinx come to mind.

But anyway, if you pay X, it means on the average scenario you'll draw (X+1)/2 cards, right? So paying 6 mana (5+U) will net you 3 cards average. Is that really that great? What makes this better than Jace's Ingenuity or Mystic Confluence?

I understand it's scalable, but if you're paying 2U for this it gets way worse, doesn't it?
Logged
MirariKnight
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 428

Lotus, YawgWill, Lotus, Go

xHollyw0odx
View Profile Email
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2016, 12:13:11 am »

I really think that if I'm spending 8 mana on this there should probably be better things for me to do, no? I dunno, Consecrated Sphinx come to mind.

But anyway, if you pay X, it means on the average scenario you'll draw (X+1)/2 cards, right? So paying 6 mana (5+U) will net you 3 cards average. Is that really that great? What makes this better than Jace's Ingenuity or Mystic Confluence?

I understand it's scalable, but if you're paying 2U for this it gets way worse, doesn't it?

I think you're dramatically underestimating the scalability. The problem with all the cards that you listed is that they're awful until you hit the mana to cast them, then they're amazing. This card is fine at 3 mana, and worst case cycles-ish at 2 mana. Whatever you're doing for 8 mana or whatever is gonna win the game no matter what it is. Keep in mind you're putting this in a deck that takes advantage of the graveyard. My initial thoughts are high numbers of Snapcasters and/or Baby Jace, but there's always other stuff like Welder, Regrowth, Yawg Will, Noxious Revival etc if you really wanna go down that path. Personally I think 3-4 Snapcasters goes a long way.
Logged
xouman
Basic User
**
Posts: 1082


View Profile Email
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2016, 03:22:04 am »

Cards with an X are usually more versatile than cards without it. Imagine FoF as:

Better fact of fiction  {U} {X}
Instant
Reveal X+2 cards from your library. your opponent puts them in 2 piles, and you keep one of them.

For {U} it would be a better sleigh of hands, for  {1} {U} you are choosing between quality and quantity and from that point you are in a very good shape, not to mention that if you can pay like 7-8 it's a party.


That said, I think Epiphany is a cute card in some scenarios, but bad most of the time. Of course in a deck that uses the graveyard, or plays spirit of the labyrinth, deserves a second look.
Logged
fsecco
Basic User
**
Posts: 560



View Profile Email
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2016, 09:46:28 am »

Every time you pay 0, 1, 2 or 3 for X you're gonna regret it and think there's probably a better card you could've put in that slot. So I can't understand how this can be a draw engine in any deck. If you're playing this for the high cost only then I think you're being to optimistic about the gameplay state or your games. Mind you I'm understanding you're play 4 Epiphany in the deck you're suggesting.

This is only better than Thirst for Knowledge or Fact of Fiction if you're paying less or way more. If you pay less it's really, really terrible. This is only viable on X=2 or more. If you're planning on paying more, so it will justify your choice of this over TfK and FoF, then you're thinking of paying X=4 or more. And I think that's really hard in a lot of matchups. Also, even if you do, you're never getting exactly what you want. In theory, I just can't see it, sorry.

If you want to post a decklist I'll gladly test it for a while so I can be convinced.
Logged
Random Noob
Basic User
**
Posts: 174


x=0


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2016, 10:05:30 am »

When you are going to pay way more, why not Stroke of Genius? Still like the flexibility of the card, for Decks working with their graves still a toy, but who are they, Slaver, Dragon? They mabe have better options in these slots.
Logged
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.077 seconds with 20 queries.