Landstill: continuing the discussion

[jshields]

For some odd reason or another, I could not put a reply to the cyclestill post because you have to be "special" to be able to post on the regular old type 1 forum.  However, I tried the r/u version of Landstill and it has worked wonderfully even though I have pretty much nothing on power other than a possibility of soon buying my very own library of alexandria.  Nonetheless, I am running wishes over the Time Walk and Fact or Fiction to get additional removal and have noticed that you can actually get some reasonably good win conditions out of your removed from game pile if you so wish.  Also, whoever reccomended that people run Stifle and Lightning Bolt main deck deserves a pat on the back as these have been darn right amazing against my environment where there are multiple MUD (Whatever the expensive artifact deck is), Dragon, Keeper, and Hulk players.  Now, since most of you have probably skipped over the last paragraph and done like I do, go ahead and diss my deck/praise my deck/walk off with my cards and just check out the decklist that I used.


Landstill:
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
4 Volcanic Island
2 Island
1 Mountain
4 Faerie Conclave
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Chrome Mox
1 Mox Diamond


3 Lightning Bolt
3 Fire/Ice

4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
3 Stifle
2 Divert (I only own a misdirection)
1 Misdirection

3 Nevinyrral's Disk

1 Mystical Tutor
2 Cunning Wish
4 Impulse
4 Standstill

Moved out of casual, topic title fixed. We have FAQs and Forum Rules--did you even look at them?
-Jacob [/b]

[Tim the Enchanter]

I think 4 fetchlands is too much in landstill - 2 is more than enough. You have no need to shuffle the deck, and no need to thin the deck, in fact you like land. With 2 fetches 4 duals and lots of draw it shouldn't be an issue to get red. And stick with blue fetches - you don't need to have a basic mountian in play or in the deck at all. I've never been a fan of chrome mox, especially not in this deck, where A. breaks standstill, B. is card disadvantage, C. you don't need that much mana that fast like other decks, D. it dies to nev disk, E. what will you pitch? and do you really want to??? I'd replace the chrome mox with an island. Barbarian rings are cool - I'd replace the mountian with a ring. I've heard good things about dustbowl.

I question the cunning wish, but it might be working for you. A 4 mana lightning bolt, 6 mana rack and ruin, etc. seems excessive. It depends on your metagame but I wouldn't run less than 4 disks.

I like Teferi's response - 3 for 1 at 1U sounds good to me...take out 2 impulse for 2 reponses I'd say.

Otherwise looks like a good build

[Raven Fire]

I think 4 fetchlands is too much in landstill - 2 is more than enough.

I disagree.  I like 4 or 5 to make sure you have access to red mana.  I don't think it would be reliable enough without them.

[TheRock]

I have never been a fan of any "1-for-2" or "0-for-1" cards like Mox Diamond, Chrome Mox, Lotus Petal, or Mystical Tutor.  Every card you draw is card advantage for this deck and you cannot afford to toss them most times, even if they grant speed or precision.

Now granted, there are plenty of instances where cards become card disadvantage such as mana flood and multiple draws, but overall I think the deck needs to stay focused.  Then again, the deck doesn't need to worry that much about control opponents so I could be making a reason for nothing.

26 lands is awful low, even with Impulse.  Running four fetchlands to go with only 26 lands is also worrisome.  I would try to fit in some more Islands and even a Lotus Petal (even though it's card disadvantage, it still works) by taking out some Impulse and that Mystical Tutor.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

[Shock Wave]

disagree. I like 4 or 5 to make sure you have access to red mana. I don't think it would be reliable enough without them.

Actually, it's absolutely correct. Running 4 fetchlands is asking for trouble, and 5 is downright absurd.

[jshields]

So.... you want to see my rebutal eh?  Well enjoy: (_|_) just kidding


Anyway, I just loved the primer that I saw and....

1.  2 Red Fetch lands???  Actually, since there is a prevalence of stripmines and nonbasic hate in my area, this is not half bad since there can only be one stripmine in each deck and this can not be targeted by wasteland, giving me a source of red mana if needed.  Besides, they also fetch volcanic islands

2.  The Moxen from the Ghetto:  I would probably run Mox Ruby and Mox Sapphire somewhere in these slots or where there are basic lands, but nobody has these available in our area short of the handful of people asking $240 an unlimited mox which is far out of my budget.  Otherwise, these have worked fine and by the time that the disk is needed, these are no more than an additional land drop or source for creating a new wishable card

3.  Cunning Wish is ummmm.... bad???    Actually, there are enough threats that you can wish for that these really are not half bad.  This can get alternative win conditions (Blood Oath and Desertion), artifact removal, bounce for the disk, counters, or land protection (that also draws 2 cards)

4.  Mystical Tutor: This really should be something like ancestral recall, but I can not afford them (But hey, I have almost a full set of dual lands and a full set of mana drains!).  However, this is not half bad in thinning the deck and possibly getting removal or counters.

5.  26 lands are not enough?  Actually, I wanted to make more room for control and damage sources since I thought that having 6 direct damage sources main deck, 2 alternatives sideboard, and 8 man lands would be plenty to get the mana needed to win.  Like I said, this area is primarily Dragon, MUD, Surival, Keeper, and Hulk Smash


last but not least, this is trying to respond to my original landstill post so sorry if this double posts admins

[Raven Fire]

I disagree. I like 4 or 5 to make sure you have access to red mana. I don't think it would be reliable enough without them.

Actually, it's absolutely correct. Running 4 fetchlands is asking for trouble, and 5 is downright absurd.

You are certainly an expert on this deck.  Could you explain to me why you wouldn't want to run more fetches?
Thanks for your time.

[blankpagez]

How about adding in Isochron Scepter ?? With this card imprinted with a Lightning Bolt or even a Mana Drain, it would just kill the opponent and it works well with the overall theme of the deck.

I played against a Landstill deck b4 in a type1 tourney and he imprinted a Bold and Mana Drain. Let me tell you, it wasn't pretty. I was playing Chalice Black at the time.

[Pern]

How about adding in Isochron Scepter ??

Permanents are bad in a deck that revolves around Nevinyrral's Disk.

[Flurp™]

I am not an expert on the deck, but I think that I can answer a few of these questions:

Landstill dosen't want the scepter because it uses disk, therefore dosent want the card disadvantage of blowing up its own scepter.

As for the number of fetches,  the deck needs a land drop every turn for a while, and fetchlands lessen the chance of getting a land.

EDIT: Pern posted just before me, didnt see his post.

[blankpagez]

OK, Im thinking of getting out the Disk for Scepters. How about that ?
Would it mess the deck up too much or what ??

[TheRock]

Landstill does not run many Tutor cards or utilize something like Brainstorm/fetch engines, so it can't just pop a good Scepter target out of nowhere and win with it.  It has to have a good target available and with the kind of pressure aggro builds like Oshawa Stompy can provide, those chances aren't very good.

Plus, Pern and Flurp are right that it gets in the way of Disk.

Landstill shouldn't thin itself unless it has absolutely no need for a particular card.  This is the reason why cards like Brainstorm are near useless other than for discard protection.  They just clog up space for more valuable answers, such as lands or burn spells.  Fetchlands are deck thinners too; however, they are better than painlands so they get the slots.  

Lands in Landstill are answers to a ton of problems.  With all of the strips out there today, having more lands and mana artifacts than other spells is not a bad thing.

[Pern]

OK, Im thinking of getting out the Disk for Scepters. How about that ?

The Disk is what makes this deck the best home for Standstill ever.
In Fish, Standstill after turn two is frequently a dead draw,
only good for pitching to Force of Will or MisDirection.
Against the many decks which can put down a significant threat turn one,
it may be a dead card in your opening hand.

Landstill's disk resets the board,
removing most of the permanent threats in existence,
often generating "many for one" card advantage,
and leaving a clear board to play Standstill onto.

This is a core function of this deck.

[Shock Wave]

You are certainly an expert on this deck. Could you explain to me why you wouldn't want to run more fetches?
Thanks for your time.

The answers that have been given by others are correct. If you need  further elaboration, feel free to post or PM any questions/concerns.

[Moxlotus]

If you remove Disks you change the entire concept of the deck.

step 1. clear board
step 2. drop standstill
step 3. beat with manlands