Will de-evolution help Dragon?

[Tychoides]

After reading the Dragon 2004 thread at the temporary forums (it can be found here), I got thinking that some of the problems Dragon has in the current metagame could be solved by taking a step backwards in the design of the deck.

Before I go into this too much, a few disclaimers:

1) I'm certainly no Type 1 expert or "Paragon of Vintage"

2) This is all based on theory and I haven't done any actual testing. I would, however, love to hear your opinions and any testing you may have done that could support the theory. I personally don't have access to a playtest group or the cards necessary to do a full metagame test.

3) I would love for this to be a healthy discussion of where to go next with Dragon.

With that having been said, on with the theory.

The first thing I think would help is going back to using cards the prevent or slow down the opponent from doing anything on your turn. Xantid Swarm is currently in place for this, but I think using additional cards that saw play in the past (like Defense Grid and Abeyance) could further protect the combo. This doesn't hurt the Dragon player much, since Force of Will isn't needed to stop opposing combo as much anymore in the current metagame and, if it is still run in the deck, could be used to protect against anything that does manage to get through on your own turn.

Secondly, if people are using anti-Ambassador strategies like Gaea's Blessing, and Welder/Platinum Angel, why not step back and use Aerial Caravan to draw your own deck to get Stroke of Genius (or get it via Cunning Wish)? Granted, Aerial Caravan requires blue mana, but I still believe blue is a viable color in this build so that isn't really an issue here.

Finally, if non-basic hate (Wasteland, Back to Basics, Blood Moon) is becoming more prevalent in the metagame, why not eliminate the Bazaar of Baghdad/Squee engine and return to focusing on getting the Dragon straight to the graveyard with Buried Alive and Entomb again?

What do you all think? Is this viable at all?

[Jacob Orlove]

Not running Bazaar/Squee will almost certainly weaken the deck far too much against control. A better idea would probably be to go up to 3-4 Compulsion, or to run a couple flashback spells, to deal with random answers.

[Tychoides]

Wouldn't increasing defensive anti-control spells make up, at least somewhat, for the loss of the Bazaar/Squee engine? More importantly, with most control decks running non-basic hate, isn't that engine hard to get going anyway?

[Piggy]

Jacob is right on the money, bazaar/squee was THE change that got dragon where it is today, and theres a reason that non-basic hate is being used to combat dragon- bazaar/squee is tough for a control deck to keep up with.  I never found compulsion to be that imppressive because it can suck up resources(like counters to get it on the board and mana once you get it there), but it does have its moments.  Plus it serves a similar purpose to caravan when you are going off.  Stifles help a bunch with the strip problem as well as much of the hate that is being thrown around.  Against control, deep anal as an intuition target(which Jacob alluded to) is always a consideration.

I don't have quite enough info on the protection issue as I never tested with grids/chants/abeyances.

[dicemanx]

Defense Grid is not an option because it doesn't protect your combo against StP, Stifle, Chain of Vapor etc. Remember, the Grid leaves play when going off, so there's a window of opportunity for your opponent to deal with your combo.

Abeyance and Chants are good, but require a white splash which is out of the question right now. Xantids are far superior because if they die or are countered, they can be reanimated.

Aerial Caravan is good, but requires that you eat up main-deck space with many win conditions (particularly Cunning Wishes for that Stroke in the SB). You cannot just run one win condition, because you risk milling it away if you go off with a Bazaar. Right now, Sliver Queen is an adequate win condition in addition to Ambassador. The only card that stops both is Root Maze, but that card doesn't stop you from drawing the game, and you can bring in Verdants to deal with it - any deck that has Root Mazes is susceptible to being overwhelmed by an animated Verdant.

Bazaars should always be present in the most competitive Dragon builds. If you are consistently losing in your meta regardless of which powered Bazaar version you run, its probably time to try a new deck rather than tinker with the build, because I seriously doubt we can improve on what we have now.

[Tychoides]

Damn, I completely forgot Defense Grids go out with the combo. I don't know how I missed that one. I feel all stupid now.

Thanks for the input Diceman, I figured you'd have the most experience here on the matter. I guess that puts my theory out of comission!

[TheFram]

if Root Maze sees alot of play, Caller of the Claw becomes a very stong MD answer since you dont need to tap mana while going off. It also gets around Balance, and you can do so both from the hand and the yard if you go off at eot (you can cast it from hand or reanimate it at the end of the loop).

Infinite Bears!

[dicemanx]

The Caller is cool idea and all, but you still need 5 mana to go off under Root Maze. Quite honestly, I don't think there is room for the Caller in the deck right now, but if I was to replace something for it, I'd cut an Ambassador ahead of a Sliver Queen. It doesn't seem like its that necessary to win immediately most of the time, but there are exceptions of course (like Balance, or Disk etc.).

[TheFram]

You either need 5 mana or a caller in the yard from bazaar action/intuition, which would only require 2-3 mana.

The insta-kill i dont think should be underrated, but neither can queen beating down. I dont know which I would do. Maybe Laquatas main, Caller in the Board.

[Mr. Channel-Fireball]

What is the thought process on Survival of the Fittest?  I know a lot of dragon decks are running green now, and with Squee in for Bazaar tricks, it almost seems that Survival could be better than Compulsion in some situations. I'm asking because I know you've done extensive testing and probably have already tried it.

*Note* this is not an alternative to Bazaar, I'm speaking in conjunction with Bazaar.  The symmetry with the newer builds seems to be a good fit.

[TheFram]

Survival is clearly weaker than Bazaar. In a deck with access to Bazaar, SOTF is worse than Compulsion, because Compulstion might find Bazaar AND will let you go off by itself.

I think SOTF should be relegated to the budget builds.

[Iron_Chef]

I agree with the above in that saying 1 win condition is too fragile.. With my experimental dragon build, I maindeck 3 win conditions.  These are Ambassador Laquatus, Stroke of Genius, and Cursed Scroll.  I believe Cursed Scroll is the thing that makes this unique.  With it in play when you go off, and 1 mana producers, colorless, its a beautiful thing.  The scroll can be used, leaving play tapped, coming back untapped, with the loop continuing indefinitely, it can be used indefinitely to deal with creatures and players alike.  I tested against a few separate decks that used platinum angel to hold off the other player.  With a laquatus, stroke, or any other kill that doesn't target multiple things at instant speed, its going to become much harder to win over platinum angel.  Cursed Scroll handles this very effectively.  The only drawback is that there must be at least 1 card in your hand.  I have only had this matter in 1 game out of all my playtesting, but it is still something to consider and plan for.

What do you guys think?

--Nick--

Vintage Enthusiast