Guidance on Getting Power

[Ric_Flair]

So some of us are not (yet) fully powered.  As such I was wondering if I could get prices for things.  What do you think the following are worth, that is, what is a good deal?  

Unl:
Lotus
Mox Sapphire
Mox Jet
Mox Ruby
Mox Pearl
Mox Emerald
Ancestral Recall
Timewalk
Library

Thanks for any advice.

[RoadTrippin]

I'm not exactly in the market for buying power right now, but I do feel I should point one thing out- LoA's can still be had for much less than they are "worth". If you look hard enough and don't care so much about condition, I'm sure you can still find one for less than $100, and real bad condition LoA's for even less than you'd expect.

Edit: If you come on down to the Cape Cod UNL Pearl Tourney next saturday (the 31st), we have a real nice UNL Lotus. Typically our store is a little overpriced, and the Lotus has been in the case for a few months at $550, but I'm sure that won't be considered "overpriced" for too much longer.  

[drg`]

I think it depends a lot on if your trading or buying power.

Personally I traded for power 9 last year and through last and this year I have the Lotus / Ruby / Emerald / Pearl / Walk Beta and Ancestral Alpha.  If your trading I find that it helps to first get UL in any order that they can come to you.  If you do get a Beta / Alpha version just trade it for a UL one + stuff, either 2 power 9 or just itself or another better mox and more trade stock to keep on moving up like Shop / Bazaar / LoA / Mask whatever.

If your buying it depends on what you want to play.  If your playing Big O you get Emerald / Lotus and don't so much worry about getting the rest of the 9.  If your getting Keeper or other decks that have either base or secondary color of blue you want this order.

1. Ancestral
2. Mox Sapphire
3. Mox your primary or main color
4. Mox 3rd color if applicable
5. Mox 4th color if applicable
6. Mox 5th color or Lotus if you don't need 5 Moxes 9 (Keeper etc.)
7. Black Lotus
8. Time Walk.

The reason why lotus is so low is that it often cost nearly 2-3 times what other moxes cost and about equal to a Ancestral + Mox.  Your just better off spending your money wisely rather than just going for the flashier Lotus.

Hope this helps,
Mike

[PieceofMind]

Lets assume these are all near mint-mint condition:
(usually played cards are about 10-20% cheaper)

Black Lotus: $500
Mox Pearl: $220
Mox Ruby: $230
Mox Sapphire:$280
Mox Emerald:$200
Mox Jet:$240
Ancestrall Recall: $350
Library of Alexandria: $140
Time Walk: $250

hope that helps Ric_Flair.

[RoadTrippin]

7. Black Lotus

The reason why lotus is so low is that it often cost nearly 2-3 times what other moxes cost and about equal to a Ancestral + Mox.  Your just better off spending your money wisely rather than just going for the flashier Lotus.

If the prices of power were to always stay the same, then this logic would be fine. If you intend to never own a full set of power and only play in 5-proxy tournaments, it's also fine. However, if you want to play in sanctioned t1 at some point in the future, and plan to acquire a set of power over time anyway, you should get the Lotus as soon as you can comfortably afford to do so. This is because the price is constantly increasing.

I think that people need to start looking at the acquisition of big money cards in a different perspective- these purchases need to be viewed as investments moreso than as money spent on entertainment.

[xrizzo]

Lets assume these are all near mint-mint condition:
(usually played cards are about 10-20% cheaper)

Black Lotus: $500
Mox Pearl: $220
Mox Ruby: $230
Mox Sapphire:$280
Mox Emerald:$200
Mox Jet:$240
Ancestrall Recall: $350
Library of Alexandria: $140
Time Walk: $250

hope that helps Ric_Flair.

I agree here.  The only big change would be Ancestral.  I can find it for below $300 consistantly...  

LoA is more like $110 to $120.

[eddavatar]

I'm actually accumulating my power in quite interesting ways.

The first pieces i've got included a beat alpha Emerald and a even more beat beta Jet. 90 bucks apiece It was like more than a year ago when my friend bought a full unlimited set while acquiring some extra stuff like my beat moxes and some other black bordered goodies.

Then my power surge really starts in the last 3-4 months. First off I got my ancestral off my local dealer for 210 in decent condition like in november last year. Everything was fine except there's a slight crease that you can only see under strong light.

And then like before winter break, I traded my WHOLE B/g Void deck (yea, including 3 nether voids =( ) for a Unlim Time Walk in almost perfect condition.

And the on this monday, I bought a beat unlim Sapphire (better condition than my other moxes tho) off the same local dealer (Don you rock) for 180.

So yea, so far i've accumulated enough power to reasonably compete. It was really fun. But if anyone is cool enough to sell me a beat lotus i'll be happy to buy off you =)

[Jawman16]

I have gotten all of my power for under $200 a piece and this has all been in the last 3-4 months.  I got lucky on the Lotus b/c the kid was looking to unload it and his auction said to email him if you would pay $200 straight up.  This was just last week.  
Buying power is all about patience.  I have been trying to get a lotus since September but refused to pay $400 for a single card.  I waited, went through some hassles and other ebay randomness but eventually I found that auction and struck gold.  
If you shop around you can get moxes for $150, Recall<$200.  I guess if you want the cards ASAP you cant take this route but I think it is worth it in the long run to wait it out and find a good deal rather then shell out $550 for an UNL Lotus.  Just some advice.

[Guardian]

PieceofMind is right on spot for the prices. Even here in Canada, most power sell for the listed prices (after conversion).
Acquiring my power was quite interesting too. Prices will be in canadian dollars.
Order I got it:
UNL Time Walk: Bought it for 140$ in summer 2001.
UNL Ancestral Recall: Bought it for 225$ in 2001.
UNL Mox Ruby: Bought it 2001 for 175$.
UNL Timetwister: Bought it for 135$ plus italian Drain in 2001.
UNL Mox Pearl: ebay for 200$ in 2001.
UNL Mox Jet: ebay for 200$ in 2001.
UNL Mox Emerald: Bought it for 225$ in 2002.
UNL Black Lotus: Bought it for 410$ in 2002.

Being unable to find an UNL Sapphire, I bought a beta one for 400$. Super expensive, but a guy offered me 500$ for it the next weekend, so I dont really care. Problem is, after you start acquiring Beta power, you want all you power to be Beta... Remember the price are in canadian dollars.

Alpha Mox Emerald (signed and beat): Bought it for 250$ in 2002.

Beta Ancestral Recall, Timetwister and Time Walk: Bought from a guy named Tony Shields for 600USD and an UNL Mox Emerald in 2002 on MOTL. By the way, his username is TheDemonicTutor and the guy is ULTRA reliable.

Beta Mox Emerald: Traded 1 for 1 for the Alpha one in 2003. Looked better than the Alpha one.

Beta Black Lotus: Bought from Mad Wombat for 930$ in 2002. The next day, somebody offered 1300$ for it. Not bad I say:)

Beta Mox Jet, Mox Ruby and Mox Pearl: Traded with Shmakt my UNL counterparts and a Lotus. Today, I would have never done that, but when you really want something, you can do crazy things. But back then, UNL moxes were still worth 150USD a piece for NM ones and mine were beat, the Black Lotus was 350-400USD and Beta Moxes were selling for 250USD, so the deal was not too much in his favor at that time. Not long after, prices went over the top. But remember, when you want something badly and you know you have the resources to get them, you DO crazy things. And these were my only missing Beta power.

After that, I traded my Beta Emerald plus 40$ for a NM one. I sold my UNL Big Blue to different people in late 2002. I could have waited more and I would have made a better profit on it, but it helped people get into T1 so it's not so bad after all. Ancestral Recall and Time Walk went for 460 plus a Cursed Scroll in January 2003 and Timetwister went for 100$ plus a Beta Underground Sea and Beta Royal Assassin.

After, I bought back the Lotus I had traded to Schmakt for 500$ and sold it for 625$ plus 4 Survival of the Fittest.

I know this may sound off topic, but the thing to learn is this: get any piece of power whenever you can get your hands on one when you're looking for UNL. The prices are likely going to keep increasing, so look at this as an investment. And as power is quite scarce, go ahead and aquire it. If you don't need it, you can always exchange it for something you need. And I say screw the "If you want to play this, get these cards in this order". I know this may seem stupid, but with the "any 5 proxies" rule, you should get your hands on power whenever a good opportunity comes to you and proxy the rest. If you need some other "power cards" like Workshops, play something else. That's what I did.

Another point is considering you are acquiring power, it means that you have money available, so the "I'm a poor student" excuse doesn't mean a thing. I'm a poor student too and I have to pay for school, my car or other stuff. So when you decide to acquire luxury stuff like power, you may have to cut somewhere. I did and I'm more than happy with the choices I did because the pride you get when you finally acquire a piece of power you earned is a great feeling.

Beta power is another story as money is a very big factor and Beta (or Alpha) power is the Nec plus ultra in Magic (except for 40 Alpha/Beta duals).

Dominique

[Ric_Flair]

@ Jawman: Now there is a very real possibility that this story is true, but as the sign in my local hobby shop says: "Don't tell me about the cards your Mother threw away."  The same goes here:  Improbable or unrepeatable stories of acquiring Lotuses for $200 are just not useful.  I am aware that if you wait until Judgment Day that you MIGHT find cards this cheap.  The point of the post was to find out what people thought a reasonably good price to pay for power is.  Certainly everyone would buy a Lotus at $200 but like men and their dick size, Magic players tend to exaggerate about deals.  You may have very well got that price, in fact I think you did, but telling everyone that is not the point of this thread.  It is also not useful because it is not repeatable.  I appreciate the patience method, but I was more interested in the median low price on power in your area and ways of acquiring it that can be repeated.  I could wait for an armored car crash in front of my house too, but I would not give that advice to people who ask me about how to become wealthy.

[Enigma]

I envy a lot of you, other then Ebay i dont know where I could imagine getting power. Even getting cards like mana drain around me is hard. It sucks if I wanted power i would have to basically shell out the money like i'm going to have to do for mana drains. I think trading for power when you dont have power cards is rather difficult, cause you end up giving so much for just 1 card.

Anyway enough complaining...

I play landstill if i was to get power would ancestrall be on top of my list?

Also whats a decent price for manadrain, currently i'm just playing with my friends set.

[Ric_Flair]

Here are my prices, living in New England and knowing Jeff may skew them a bit to the low side.

Unl (Mint, not PSA graded, PSA grading is for collectors...booo!)
Beta: 40%-100% more per card, Lotus being highest

Lotus: 500-600
Sapphire: 275
Jet: 250
Emerald: 225
Ruby: 225
Pearl: 200
Ancestral: 275-300
Timewalk: 275-300
Library: 100
Twister: 75-100

Mana Drains (English): 60-75 each, Itl: 40-60 each
Workshops: 150 each
Mask: 100-110 each
Bazaar: 120 each

Revised
Underground Sea: 25 each
Volcanic Island: 22 each
Tropical Island: 22 each
Tundra: 20 each
Tiaga: 15 each
Bayou: 13 each
Badlands: 10 each
The rest: 7 each

The way the prices work is this:  If you can find the card for that price it is an okay deal.  If you have the money it would not be stupid to buy it.  If you can find it for significantly less, it is a good deal, significantly more it is not.  I am not sure if that accrues with everyone else's sense of cost.  Let me know if I am high or low.  Star City is obviously the worst place to buy Power, but is okay on duals.  Ebay is good on everything, but getting too high on power.  Duals on Ebay are still affordable.  Watch stuff too.  Sometimes people are retarded.  It pays to watch Ebay.

My tip is to form a good relationship with a local dealer and buy stuff off him or her for a good price.  Eventually they can find you good deals and you can start getting stuff.  That is what I have done.  That and I know Samite Healer and THE Jacob Orlove personally, both of whom have plenty of good stuff.  

I too could regale people with stories of fantastic finds, like my Volcanics that I found at $8 a piece, which Samite Healer can confirm, but these are not useful tips or repeatable events.  

The other thing that Kerz and Hulk told me was to win tournaments.  I know this sounds dumb, especially since I have missed too many recently due to school, but you have to play to win.  

PS: Kerz has a Pearl if anyone is interested.  And I think he is asking a very fair price for it.  Jeff (Samite Healer) has so much power it is CRAZY.  He is a good source for hard to find stuff.  If you want signed, Summer Magic Kird Apes, Foil Bolts, or Signed Beta Loti he is the guy to go to.  I can vouch for both of these guys and THE Jacob Orlove as well.

[Guardian]

I believe a reasonable price can be found on ebay for Drains. I believe Drains are worth 50-60USD a piece (english). In Québec, they sell and trade for 90$C and 70$C for english and italian ones, but these prices are ridiculous. I would never pay such an amount for a Drain. Higher than taht, thats ridiculous. If money is an issue, italian ones do the job nicely as everybody knows about the card: the Tedin illustration is quite famous

[Jawman16]

My bad Mr. Flair.  I didnt realize how much more expensive power is up there in NE.  Down here moxes are still under 200.   So I really cannot be of much service to you.  But whatever your median price is I'm sure you can bargian down a little bit and get a good deal.  I hope you can get all of the power though.  It is one of the best investments I have ever made.

[jazzykat]

@Ric I think your prices are generally right on. I just look at ebay, and will pay about that much even though it is getting crazy so are the prices with just random people.

Obviously there are deals to be had, it just depends how fast and what you need.


I wish I knew a dealer that would provide me with a deal, mine just lists cards and sells them to you for what the price is(needless to say, i never bought power from him.).

So if kerz reads this, please PM me so that we can start an open dialogue as I have not obtained all the power, and if you make fair(most arbitrary word ever) hook ups we will do biz in the future, as I only have an extra ancestral that I am undecided on its fate, and very little cash right now.

Best of luck to you ric, and get the damn lotus right away (my playvalue, bang for your buck list was in the old forums if you cared), I don't think it is the best but with the way prices are going...you may not get it for that "cheap" soon.

[butter2000]

I am 2 short of my power 10.  I would love to finish it off though!

The best bet I have found so far for getting power cards is to go somewhere else.   You know you can't get it reasonably where you currently are now (or else you would already have it), so you need to take a well planned road trip to somewhere you know will have the card you need tweak your skillz and win a TMD tourney.

[TimeBeing]

Okay I like this subject since i got my power in the last year and have watched the prices go way up.

So where did i got mine.

Ul Mox Emerald Mint - 130 About a year ago, don't know why it was so cheap, because right after i bought it, the next time i hit that card shop the prices had jumped 50%.

LOA. 90ish ex. These are still Cheap.

Ul Jet, Pearl. got these off Coolstuffinc. for 155 each. about 8months ago. Just kept looking to see if they ever had some and the second they got some i bough them. They were nice for the price.

Alpha Ruby 75 Beat. Got it off a dealer at socal regionals. Asked if he had any power. and he showed me it and said 75$ and i bought no questions asked.

Time Walk and Ancestral. Go these off Ebay and The Mana Drain. for about 170-180 each. Again Just kept looking for a good deal. Sadly no more trading on the Mana Drain.

Lotus Sapphire. 500 for both from coolstuffinc.com. Emailed them and asked if they had some played versions and they emailed me back a few weeks later. They grade tough so they are in better condition then i expected.

Timetwister 90. Again asked a random dealer at Mirrodion Pre-release, if he had some power and he showed me a beat up timetwister. said 90, guy next to me offer the guy 100$ for it. Dealer was cool and said no, i offered it to him first, so my friend paid for it for me and I paid him back.

What I would pay now for Ul stuff. if they are mint/NM

Ancestral 250-300
Time Walk - 250
Mox S - 250
Mox J - 230
Mox P,R - 210
Mox E - 190
Lotus - 400-450
Timetwister- 120-140
LOA 100

Yes my prices are low but i bet you could find them if you looked.

Now what do i think is the best way to get  the cards now? Hit the big conventions, and look for people who are trading or dealers.

At Gencon Socal I found a Ebay seller, who had a NM Beta/Signed Ancestral, and a played Lotus he would trade. He gave me good value on my Tier 2 Type 1 stuff (my 1 mask and 1 Bazaar) and then went threw all my T2 and extended stuff.  most of the stuff he took was rotated out of T2, or was stuff I wasn't going to play with anytime soon. Plus replacing a Spirtmonger is a lot easier then getting an Ancestral. Yes he Valued the 2 cards hi (400 for the ancestral and 500 for the lotus) but I hit 900 pretty quickly with the stuff he wanted. so I got 2 big power and he got a pile of rares I couldn't care less about. (plus i finally traded my 1 mask and 1 bazaar)

Also asking dealers who don’t deal in type 1 stuff, is always a good source. Since a lot of times they will buy the stuff, but not put it out. Or they might have picked it up that day, and are willing to turn it over for a quick buck. Also your local store, if they don’t deal in type 1. Tell them your interested and to call you if anything comes it, they tend to like turning things over quickly cheap.

I mean some dealers were giving .20$ for crap rares. So I think big trades are a easy way to start building your power now. At least it less painful then dropping 300$

Hope this helped

[xrizzo]

Revised
Underground Sea: 25 each
Volcanic Island: 22 each
Tropical Island: 22 each
Tundra: 20 each

I have lots of duals I would love to sell at these prices...

As long as you have access to this little site known as ebay, you can get seas MUCH cheaper than 25 each.  

A little completed items search shows:
<edited out link because it distorts the page>
Avg. price for seas are $15 bucks...

[Ifflejink]

Duals are on the lower end of the price scale of essential type one cards, and they are relatively affordable. I'd buy duals before power, personally.

[dan_hellspawn]

A quick eBay tip here. I have 6 of the 10 power now, and this is a tip how to get it cheap.

Basically, i bookmark a search that i did on ebay, which is the Magic category, only show Buy-it-now, sort by Newly listed. So as soon as I go to it, I get the newest listings.

If you get lucky here you will already find something.

In addition to this, if you see Power or some nice older cards on the front page you just loaded, click on 'View seller's other items'. It will show items he has listed but they still haven't gone through the system to show up on searches yet, only his seller page.

I got a Library of Alexandria for 80.00 2 weeks ago, and also a Black Lotus, EX- for 310.00 about 2 months ago, using this same idea.

You just have to be patient and wait for the best deal.

Oh, and another thing. I do not understand why alot of people value Mox Pearl over Emerald. I think Emerald is more widely used so I can't figure that out.

[THENATE]

its key if u no paople that played and quit. like i picked up a jet this week for 150

or my cousin picking up a nice stack of cards ( alpha jet was in there) from his friend for dirt cheap.

or last year at origins we found a small dealer that didnt look like he would have power but we went there any way and he had a nice ruby for 120.

shopping around takes time but its worth it

[verduran]

how does a beta timetwister (m/nm) for 325 euros (=350 dollars) to you? a bit expensive? should I buy it? Eventually, I'd like to get my hands on a full set of p9, preferrably BB. Is this a good piece to start out with?

[Charlie]

How about the beaten powers? How much do they worth? Does it worth to bid on ebay sellers without high ref

[Petko]

how does a beta timetwister (m/nm) for 325 euros (=350 dollars) to you? a bit expensive? should I buy it? Eventually, I'd like to get my hands on a full set of p9, preferrably BB. Is this a good piece to start out with?

Definately not; you can get something like a BB Ancestral Recall for that much!

[xrizzo]

How about the beaten powers? How much do they worth? Does it worth to bid on ebay sellers without high ref

You really risk a lot if you bid on low ref. stuff.  I always check where the refs are from too... if you buy from someone with 40 ref, but all 40 are from purchases - you really don't know much about them as a seller.  

An email or two before you bid is a good way to see if there is anything weird going on...

Beat power is a good play value - but the cards will not increase in price as much as mint versions because the cards aren't at such a premium.  If you don't care about them as a collector's item, go for it.

[verduran]

how does a beta timetwister (m/nm) for 325 euros (=350 dollars) to you? a bit expensive? should I buy it? Eventually, I'd like to get my hands on a full set of p9, preferrably BB. Is this a good piece to start out with?

Definately not; you can get something like a BB Ancestral Recall for that much!

would that be m/nm, too?
and, generally speaking, would ancestral be a better piece of p9 to start out with? (pro'ly a stupid question )

[jazzykat]

IMHO ancestral is the power to start with, although lotus is also excellent to start with. Just pick up good deals, and 350 for a beta twister is too much, you can get a beta pearl, or emerald for that much. You can also get an UL VF-NM, ancestral most easily from almost anyone for that much.

[Jacob Orlove]

This topic is degenerating into stuff that doesn't belong on the forums. Closed.