Ephraim
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« on: January 23, 2004, 12:45:42 am » |
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Yesterday, StarCityGames.com had an article about teaching Magic to new players. The gist of it was to start with simple ideas: playing land, casting spells, creatures, sorceries, attacking, and blocking. The next step was to introduce instants to the mix, and after they're comfortable with instants in general, demonstrate some combat tricks and begin developing the idea of the stack. Finally, add instant-speed creature abilities and enchantments (it's necessary to understand instants and the stack, so the idea of casting Shock on the creature they just cast Regeneration on makes sense).
I was pleased to see this article, because for some time now, I've had it in mind to create one or more training decks that I could use for demo purposes to teach newbies how to play. So far, I've really only got one, but I'm hoping to build one mono-colour deck for each colour, to demonstrate each colour's strengths and give any newbies a varied experience.
I started from the Green 8th Edition preconstructed deck. I think it comes with a lot of good, basic cards and represents a solid foundation for a teaching deck. I've added cards to the deck, so that eventually, there's 60 cards there for the newbie to play with. Also, I bend some of the teaching rules, above, most notably by leaving creatures with mana abilities in the basic deck.
I wanted some feedback on the cards I selected for the deck. If some card seems out of place or if you know of a card that'd get an idea across better, please mention it.
GREEN
Initial 40 Cards Creatures (21) 2 Vine Trellis 2 Grizzly Bears 3 Canopy Spider 2 Elvish Warrior 2 Yotian Soldier 2 Fyndhorn Elder 3 Trained Armodon 2 Giant Spider 1 Emperor Crocodile 2 Spined Wurm
Sorceries (5) 3 Rampant Growth 2 Stream of Life
Land (14) 14 Forest
First Addition - 10 Cards Creatures (3) 2 Horned Troll 1 Primeval Force
Instants (3) 3 Giant Growth
Land (4) 4 Forest
Second Addition - 10 Cards Creatures (2) 2 Nantuko Disciple
Instants (1) 1 Naturalize
Enchantments (4) 2 Regeneration 1 Familiar Ground 1 Lure
Land (3) 3 Forest
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Did you know that Red is the color or art and music and passion? Combine that with Green, the color of nature, spiritualism, and community and you get a hippie commune of drum circles, dreamcatchers, and recreational drug use. Let's see that win a Pro Tour.
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Puschkin
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« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2004, 10:49:57 am » |
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Rampant Growth seems a bit odd in a monocolour deck. What about Wild Growth instead? its also a classic and more useful in here.
Then I do miss Hurricane. And the artifact creature should maybe a flying creature to demonstrate how artifacts can be used to help out a colour's weaknesses. What about Dancing Scimitar or Clockwork Aven? Of course, if you do both add a flying artifact creature and Hurrican it is a bit of bad Synergy.
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Defiant Vanguard against the Phyrexian Invasion
"I cast Raise Dead, targetting Puschkin"
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Ephraim
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« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2004, 11:27:45 am » |
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I don't want to put Wild Growth in the main deck, because it is an enchantment. I don't know for certain that the red deck will include land destruction, but especially if it does, then I'd want to put Wild Growth in the third phase of the deck, with the other enchantments.
As for putting Hurricane in the first phase, that seems like a good idea. Only 1 copy though, I think, in place of one of the Rampant Growths. Then, newbies can also see the joy that is Stream of Life/Hurricane, when both players are low on life. I could use Nature's Lore in place of the other two Rampant Growths. It conveys the same basic principle, and is a little bit better, in a mono-green deck.
I don't think using a Clockwork creature is stricty the best idea, although Dancing Scmitar is simple enough. It's kind of ironic - I'd be including it to show how to shore up Green's weakness with Artifacts, when I could just as readily include Scryb Sprites, which I intentionally left out, since they're very non-green in flavour, anymore. Anyhow, the Scimitar has better synergy with Hurricane, even if it does fly, if only because it has 5 toughness.
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Did you know that Red is the color or art and music and passion? Combine that with Green, the color of nature, spiritualism, and community and you get a hippie commune of drum circles, dreamcatchers, and recreational drug use. Let's see that win a Pro Tour.
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Fëanor
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« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2004, 01:35:20 pm » |
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you should put in a non-basic land of some sort, most probably havenwood battleground. i loved that card back in the day. the reason i suggest is because if all the player sees is basic land, then the newb will be somewhat reluctact to both use them when making his/her own deck, or playing against them. when you phase into more complex magic, turn to city of brass and try to explain a combo, for example elfball. but thats later. im running out of time right now, but if i have time later ill pm some more to you. peace 
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**Team Bolt**-_-The best damn team ever to walk the earth, since the last team that came before it USB!
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Ephraim
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« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2004, 05:00:26 pm » |
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BLUE
Initial 40 Cards Creatures (17) 3 Storm Crow 2 Metathran Soldier 2 Merchant of Secrets 2 Psychic Membrane 3 Wind Drake 2 Fighting Drake 2 Air Elemental 1 Tidal Kraken
Sorceries (7) 2 Exhaustion 3 Time Ebb 2 Concentrate
Land (16) 12 Island 4 Svyelunite Temple
First Addition - 10 Cards Instants (5) 3 Unsummon 2 Twiddle
Creatures (1) 1 Mahamoti Djinn
Land (4) 4 Island
Second Addition - 10 Cards Creatures (2) 2 Disruptive Student
Instants (2) 2 Counterspell
Enchantments (3) 1 Telepathy 1 Curiosity 1 Control Magic
*****
I liked the idea of using the Fallen Empires sacrifice lands to get new players used to the idea of non-basic lands. I always liked 'em (and I remember that I was once saved from having a Mahamoti Djinn counted by a Power Sink, because my opponent forgot to count the extra mana my Svyelunite Temple would generate.) Anyhow, here's the blue deck. Discuss, comment, critique.
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Did you know that Red is the color or art and music and passion? Combine that with Green, the color of nature, spiritualism, and community and you get a hippie commune of drum circles, dreamcatchers, and recreational drug use. Let's see that win a Pro Tour.
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mogote
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« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2004, 09:00:37 am » |
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I would add a card representing blue's ability to maipulate the library. Maybe you can replace a creature for at least one copy of Sage Owl (or something similar). It's a very basic card but I liked very much when starting with Magic. Sage Owl - 1U Creature - Bird Flying When Sage Owl comes into play, look at the top four cards of your library and put them back in any order.
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Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he'll be a mile away - and barefoot.
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Nefarias
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« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2004, 04:19:09 am » |
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Two things:
First: Regeneration in the green deck. I never had a problem with this card/ability, even when I first started, but whenever I try to teach a new player Magic, I seem to have an easier time explaining banding and flanking than I do regeneration. For some reason or another, people just don't seem to get it. Though it shoudl still be there, be careful with it. Also, instead of the actual card Regeneration, perhaps you could put something huge with regeneration that they could smash face with, like Ancient Silverback. New players love fatties.
Second: If these decks are meant to be played against each other, they just don't seem interactive. The blue deck has too much evasion, and the green deck doesn't have quite enogh big guys to force their fliers to block. This assumption could be incorrect, but it at least looks that way.
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Team GG's This will be the realest shit you ever quote
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Fëanor
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« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2004, 10:39:54 am » |
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um...maybe i missed it, and i know you talked about it, but put in mana elves. not only would it make the deck more playable against blue, but it would make it faster than the blue...or maybe as fast as...evening the sides i little. blu deck: Boomerang? Legacy's Allure? Disrupt? id rather play disrupt than the student, its easier to explain a spell than an ability. if you want tap abilities in the blue, use prodigal sorcerer/archivist are you planning on incorporating Sideboard yet? Also I have a question for all reading this thread. I myself am also going to be teaching a newcomer and I need a good resource. An online rulebook would be very helpful. I was looking around but i couldnt find an actual reprint of the books they used to put in the tournament packs (you know, the old ones with shivan dragon on the cover  ). does anyone know where i can get an online copy? or if not that, something close that i can print out and go over with my newb while we're playing?????? good decks Ephraim, im testing them as we speak... peace 
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**Team Bolt**-_-The best damn team ever to walk the earth, since the last team that came before it USB!
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Ephraim
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« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2004, 03:00:53 pm » |
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@Mogote: Good idea on the Sage Owl. I'll probably replace Storm Crow with it. @The Walking Sponge: Thanks for the heads up on regeneration. I'll find some other enchantment to put there. Ancient Silverback instead of Primeval Force is a good idea and I can use Blanchwood Armor and maybe Exoskeletal Armor. As for the Blue deck's evasion, the Green deck also has 5 spiders in it, and will have 2 Dancing Scimitars and 1 Hurricane. Plenty to deal with Blue's flying. That leaves Blue with 3 genuinely unblockable creatures, and Mahamoti Djinn, which can survive much of Green's assault against flying. I'm not sure what I could replace with more fat and still give a reasonable cross section of what Green is about. @Feanor: There are already 4 mana-generating creatures in the basic deck. I might be able to replace the Elvish Warriors with Llanowar Elves, but with 4 mana-generating creatures and 2 Nature's Lores, you don't think the deck has enough acceleration to compete with the Blue deck I posted? As for the creature with an ability, I intentionally left Prodigal Sorceror out, since I'm including Anaba Shaman in Red. I don't want to give any colour too many rares, so Archivist is out. I might use Cephalid Looter or Merfolk Looter (depending on the mana curve I want to maintain), although that might require too much skill to be used well by a newbie. You can find copies of the rulebook at Wizards' web site. They print on normal 8 1/2 x 11 pages - one side only, unfortunately. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=magic/rules/newplayer, then select "Basic Rulebook"
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Did you know that Red is the color or art and music and passion? Combine that with Green, the color of nature, spiritualism, and community and you get a hippie commune of drum circles, dreamcatchers, and recreational drug use. Let's see that win a Pro Tour.
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Ephraim
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« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2004, 04:27:49 pm » |
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Red
Initial 40 Cards Creatures (16) 3 Raging Goblin 2 Golin Raider 2 Goblin Chariot 2 Blistering Barrier 2 Balduvian Barbarians 2 Viashino Warrior 2 Vulshok Berserker 1 Volcanic Dragon
Sorceries (8) 3 Blaze 3 Volcanic Hammer 2 Stone Rain
Land (16) 12 Mountain 4 Dwarven Ruins
First Addition - 10 Cards Creatures (1) 1 Shivan Dragon
Instants (5) 3 Shock 2 Blood Frenzy
Land (4) 4 Mountain
Second Addition - 10 Cards Creatures (2) 2 Anaba Shaman
Enchantments (4) 2 Firebreathing 1 Granite Grip 1 Furious Assault
Instants (1) 1 Enrage
***Changes to Blue Deck*** Initial 40 Cards -3 Storm Crow +3 Sage Owl
First Addition none
Second Addition -2 Disruptive Student +2 Puppeteer
***Changes to Green Deck*** Initial 40 Cards -2 Yotian Soldier -2 Forest +4 Havenwood Battleground
First Addition -1 Primeval Force +1 Ancient Silverback
Second Addition -2 Regeneration +1 Blanchwood Armor +1 Elephant Guide
***Comments*** Concerning the changes to the blue and green decks, I am slightly concerned about using Elephant Guide. It seems intuitive to me, but it might not be so simple to a newer player. Because I wish to avoid Trample, for now, I've lost a lot of other options. If Blanchwood Armor turns out to be too powerful, Green may get a second Elephant Guide and red will lose Granite Grip. Building the other decks' colours, I haven't been able to fit appropriate artifacts yet. My next revision may, but for the time being, Green with have neither Yotian Soldier nor Dancing Scimitar. I'm giving it 2 more Forests, to give it symmetry with the other decks. I may also consider giving the blue deck a third Counterspell, in place of Telepathy. I definitely want a new player to experience that aspect of Blue magic.
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Did you know that Red is the color or art and music and passion? Combine that with Green, the color of nature, spiritualism, and community and you get a hippie commune of drum circles, dreamcatchers, and recreational drug use. Let's see that win a Pro Tour.
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Ephraim
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« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2004, 07:44:28 pm » |
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While building the black deck, it occurred to me that I definitely wanted the black deck to have some creatures with Fear. Unfortunately, in a field of mono-colour decks, Fear is as good as Blue's unblockable stuff. So I have to return to the idea of having artifact creatures in each of the non-black decks - and probably some in the black deck as well, for symmetry.
Dancing Scimitar, as previously mentioned, compliments green. It's rare, but I don't think it's an especially good rare. Red may use Dancing Scimitar as well, since its weaknesses are similar to Greens, in that regard. I will probably give Blue Obsianous Golem to make up for its lack of fat.
Black Initial 40 Cards Creatures (18) 3 Ravenous Rats 2 Fledgling Djinn 2 Wall of Souls 3 Scathe Zombies 2 Serpent Warrior 3 Severed Legion 1 Commander Greven il-Vec
Sorceries (6) 2 Raise Dead 2 Consume Spirit 2 Coercion
Land (16) 12 Swamp 4 Ebon Stronghold
First Addition - 10 Cards Creatures (3) 3 Bottle Gnomes
Instants (3) 2 Terror 1 Dark Banishing
Land (4)Swamp
Second Addition - 10 Cards Creatures (1) 1 Stronghold Assassin
Enchantments (6) 2 Contaminated Bond 1 Sadistic Glee 2 Unholy Strength 1 Torment
Land (3) 3 Swamp
***Comments*** The Black deck deviates somewhat from the order of delivery set forth in the first three decks. Rather than give the second rare creature in the first addition, it's given in the second addition here. I couldn't find an appropriate fatty for the first addition. If Grinning Demon hadn't had Morph, it would have fit the bill. As it is, I put Stronghold Assassin in the second addition.
Also, the artifact creature (Bottle Gnomes), by merit of having an instant effect - and one that requires a sacrifice at that, is in the first addition. I hope that this doesn't cause undue confusion for a new player. If it does, I will just use Tanglebloom and leave Black without an artifact creature.
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Did you know that Red is the color or art and music and passion? Combine that with Green, the color of nature, spiritualism, and community and you get a hippie commune of drum circles, dreamcatchers, and recreational drug use. Let's see that win a Pro Tour.
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Fëanor
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« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2004, 07:57:29 pm » |
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i was going to say Ball lightning in place of the dragon for red, but after the comment....how about viashino sandstalker or the cutthroat? as far as black life gain, you could try Fountain of youth. its a zero casting cost spell, and i loved them to death even before id heard of P9 Lake of the dead? or if it would be too confusing, cabal cofffers? i just look at the mana in all of your decks and theyrre the same. if you alter each deck based on color, why not alter the manabase a little? very good choices on the red deck, it looks fairly perfect for a newb to play peace 
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**Team Bolt**-_-The best damn team ever to walk the earth, since the last team that came before it USB!
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Ephraim
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« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2004, 08:29:01 pm » |
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@Feanor: I'm trying to give each deck a pair of "good" rare creatures (Dancing Scimitars don't count!). But for the sake of argument, which of the dragons do you think I should replace with a Sandstalker? There's Volcanic Dragon in the initial 40 cards and Shivan Dragon in the first addition. For the record, I'm reluctant to remove Shivan Dragon, since it's sort of Red's flagship creature. If you are suggesting I remove the Volcanic Dragon, I'm open to the idea, but I'd like to replace it with something better than Viashino Sandstalker. I kind of liked the idea of giving red two dragons, since they're very much red's big draw for new players.
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Did you know that Red is the color or art and music and passion? Combine that with Green, the color of nature, spiritualism, and community and you get a hippie commune of drum circles, dreamcatchers, and recreational drug use. Let's see that win a Pro Tour.
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Fëanor
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« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2004, 09:35:53 pm » |
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meh, i personally never liked dragons as much as evryone else, except eternals but i dont think dragons will be very playable. if one of the players runs out of land or is simply land screwed, then he'll hate having the card sit in his hand all game without a play... valcanic dragon i think you should take out, but if not for sandstalker (only suggested it because of the cool ability), then for lightning dragon, just because its easier to play, plus echo....eh idk...im at a loss there...sorry. let me think about it for a while.... peace  [/quote]
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**Team Bolt**-_-The best damn team ever to walk the earth, since the last team that came before it USB!
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mogote
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« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2004, 02:32:54 am » |
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Would Nightmare fit in the black deck? I also thought about Fallen Angel or Phyrexian Plaguelord as fatties but maybe they're too complicated. Decide for yourself. 
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Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he'll be a mile away - and barefoot.
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Ephraim
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« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2004, 02:57:04 am » |
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Nightmare would fit, and I could place it in the first addition, where I expect it would belong. However, I am concerned that if Granite Grip and Blanchwood Armor are too strong, even though they can be Naturalized or Demystified, not to mention having their creature Terrorized, then a creature with no real enemies in the other decks with a similar P/T is going to be a real problem. If testing reveals that Granite Grip and Blanchwood Armor don't cause problems, then I'lll consider putting Nightmare into one of Black's rare creature slots.
I considered both Fallen Angel and Phyrexian Plaguelord, as well, but I think that the strategic use of the Plaguelord is asking a little much for a new player. Fallen Angel is still under consideration. It's certainly not too powerful, which makes it a better possibility than the Nightmare, and I suppose these decks are pretty creature heavy, so it shouldn't lack for fodder. I'll definitely test with it and see if it works out.
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Did you know that Red is the color or art and music and passion? Combine that with Green, the color of nature, spiritualism, and community and you get a hippie commune of drum circles, dreamcatchers, and recreational drug use. Let's see that win a Pro Tour.
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Necrologia
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« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2004, 01:09:38 pm » |
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Thanks to this thread, I think I'm finally going to be able to teach some of my friends to play Magic. I really like the idea of starting with 40 card decks and then slowly adding more difficult cards. Before I get started though I figure I might as well have all 5 colors represented, so has anyone some up with a white deck list yet?
If it were any other color I might hazard a deck list on my own, but white is just not my thing. Besides, I’m unsure how to deal with the life gain issue, as it’s really bad in general, but new players tend to love it. I see that you have a few Streams of Life in the green deck, but I’m wondering if we want to set them down the right path from the beginning, with the lesson that life gain should almost always be avoided.
As for rare creatures, Serra Angel is an auto-include, but what else? Master Healer? Elite Archers?
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This space for rent, reasonable rates
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Ephraim
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The Casual Adept
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« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2004, 01:39:32 pm » |
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This post has been edited. Goober that I am, I forgot something basic like Samite Healer.
White Initial 40 Cards Creatures (18) 2 Suntail Hawk 2 Armored Pegasus 3 Glory Seeker 2 Angelic Wall 2 Leonine Skyhunter 2 Steadfast Guard 2 Ardent Militia 1 Serra Angel 2 Phyrexian Hulk
Sorceries (6) 1 False Peace 2 Sacred Nectar 1 Blinding Light 2 Breath of Life
Land (16) 12 Plains 4 Ruins of Trokair
First Addition - 10 Cards Creatures (1) 1 Dawn Elemental
Instants (5) 3 Healing Salve 2 Chastise
Land (4) 4 Plains
Second Addition - 10 Cards Creatures (2) 2 Samite Healer
Instants (1) 1 Demystify
Enchantments (4) 1 Holy Strength 1 Spirit Link 1 Pacifism 1 Rhystic Circle
Land (3) 3 Plains
***Changes to Green Deck*** -2 Elvish Warrior -1 Canopy Spider +3 Dancing Scimitar
***Changes to Blue Deck*** -2 Fighting Drake +2 Phyrexian Hulk
***Changes to Red Deck*** -2 Goblin Raider -2 Goblin Chariot +3 Dancing Scimitar +1 Vulshok Berserker
***Changes to Black Deck*** -1 Bottle Gnomes -1 Stronghold Assassin +1 Fallen Angel (first addition) +1 Enfeeblement (seond addition)
***Comments***
@Necrologia: I think the life gain should stay in. It is a part of the game and is an important part of the flavour of some of the colours. You can explain why the life gain cards aren't ideal, but leave them in, so they can have fun with them, while they're new to the game, and can learn themselves why they're suboptimal.
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Did you know that Red is the color or art and music and passion? Combine that with Green, the color of nature, spiritualism, and community and you get a hippie commune of drum circles, dreamcatchers, and recreational drug use. Let's see that win a Pro Tour.
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defector
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« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2004, 05:14:26 pm » |
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I would try to add in a card like Silvos as some point in time to explain Legend Rule, Victory Condition, and Regeneration and Trample. He's big, furry, and fun to. defector
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I play fair symmetrical cards.
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